National Team players who come onto the website...

[Timotas]

I'm a lil surprised how many players know about us Voyageurs!

So which Voyageurs have actually posted on here and who do you think actually sees our comments... Yallop do you think?

So we've seen pozniak post and I know Josh Simpson posts on his official website... but who else posts here???

[Alex]

Im sure most of the guys know about it...its not hard to find this site. Would be nice to know if Yallop ever comes here though. Yallop if you see this, LET IT BE KNOWN!

[beachesl]

Remember the Fernando Aguiar posts about the phone call with Frank when he was left off the roster at the end of may? And DJT pleading with him to remove them so that the harm could be undone ("This is the worst thread ever!").

Stalteri's wife Christina, a lady with a lot of class, posts here occaisonally, but silent Paul probably just looks over her shoulder.

We've had a few suspects here. There have also been some bench list players like Dan Fernandes posting here occaisonally.

I'm sure Frank Yallop pops by occaisonally, but I think it would be improvident of him to wade in.

[Timotas]

quote:Originally posted by beachesl

Remember the Fernando Aguiar posts about the phone call with Frank when he was left off the roster at the end of may? And DJT pleading with him to remove them so that the harm could be undone ("This is the worst thread ever!").

Stalteri's wife Christina, a lady with a lot of class, posts here occaisonally, but silent Paul probably just looks over her shoulder.

We've had a few suspects here. There have also been some bench list players like Dan Fernandes posting here occaisonally.

I'm sure Frank Yallop pops by occaisonally, but I think it would be improvident of him to wade in.

Oh thats interesting, but I don't know the story about Aguiar... can you explain it to me please?

[Massive Attack]

Fernando Aguiar posted in this thread about the player selection for the Wales game:

http://canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3083

His first post came on page 4, he posted under the name 'life':

http://canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3083&whichpage=4&SearchTerms=aguiar,yallop

Personally, I mark this moment as when our World Cup qualifying was lost. This is were Yallop made it clear that it was more important to play his beer buddies than the best possible players for Canada. But I'm not bitter.

[Timotas]

Oh wow, thats ridicilious, I didn't know Fernando was actually like that.. but how do we actually know it was him? I'm sure it was... but did any of the moderators check his IP and state his location? Just curious, because thats insane that he'd come onto a fanboard and start calling some of his countrymen a$$holes... its kinda bizzare! Anyways, anyone other members of the nats team been on this board?

[imported_n/a1394647443]

message deleted

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by Timotas

Oh wow, thats ridicilious, I didn't know Fernando was actually like that.. but how do we actually know it was him? I'm sure it was... but did any of the moderators check his IP and state his location? Just curious, because thats insane that he'd come onto a fanboard and start calling some of his countrymen a$$holes... its kinda bizzare! Anyways, anyone other members of the nats team been on this board?

A poster on this forum, Jeffrey S., who has had email conversations with a couple of Canadian players pretty much confirmed that it was Fernando.

As for the way Fernando Aguiar acted, I can't blame him for being pissed. Sure, he may have crossed the line with the name calling, but I don't think he had anything to lose at that point anyway.

Mark my words, Frank Yallop was suppose to be the great uniter, but instead he is the great divider. I predict he will have the same problems that Holger had near the end of his reign (ie. alienated players who don't want to be called by him). I hope I'm wrong.

[Grizzly]

Fernando Aguiar posted in this thread about the player selection for the Wales game:

Personally, I mark this moment as when our World Cup qualifying was lost. This is were Yallop made it clear that it was more important to play his beer buddies than the best possible players for Canada. But I'm not bitter.

In retrospect I can agree with your opinion that this may have been the turning point in our WCQ. I was and still am critical of Aguair's comments on this board and decision to withdraw from consideration. However, this was the first of a number of questionable selection decisions by Yallop which often seemed to have more to do with personal relations than skill. Had Aguair been the only incidence I would have thought he must have had a bad attitude but he was the first of many to come. One would think that someone of his pedigree would have been given at least a friendly to prove himself. However, I have the impression that Yallop purposely did not call players who might threaten his chosen starters. A good performance against Wales might have forced Yallop to keep calling Aguair. Just like Nsaliwa and Klukowski weren't even called as subs at our weakest position in favour of A-leaguers. Maybe if one of them had successfully subbed for DeVos when he was injured Yallop might have been pressured to play him alongside DeVos in the next game. Nor was Hirschfeld or Sutton given a chance to start a match despite the constant poor play of Onstad. Seems like Yallop had his mind up about who he was going to play and wasn't going to let poor performance or fair player competition change that. Even Ossieck was flexible enough to recall Radzinski when he realized we didn't have the strikers to win games. Much has been made of Aguair not getting along with Watson and not being called for that reason but Yallop himself was a teammate of Aguair on the national team at the end of his career and the start of Aguair's career.

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

In retrospect I can agree with your opinion that this may have been the turning point in our WCQ. I was and still am critical of Aguair's comments on this board and decision to withdraw from consideration. However, this was the first of a number of questionable selection decisions by Yallop which often seemed to have more to do with personal relations than skill. Had Aguair been the only incidence I would have thought he must have had a bad attitude but he was the first of many to come. One would think that someone of his pedigree would have been given at least a friendly to prove himself. However, I have the impression that Yallop purposely did not call players who might threaten his chosen starters. A good performance against Wales might have forced Yallop to keep calling Aguair. Just like Nsaliwa and Klukowski weren't even called as subs at our weakest position in favour of A-leaguers. Maybe if one of them had successfully subbed for DeVos when he was injured Yallop might have been pressured to play him alongside DeVos in the next game. Nor was Hirschfeld or Sutton given a chance to start a match despite the constant poor play of Onstad. Seems like Yallop had his mind up about who he was going to play and wasn't going to let poor performance or fair player competition change that. Even Ossieck was flexible enough to recall Radzinski when he realized we didn't have the strikers to win games. Much has been made of Aguair not getting along with Watson and not being called for that reason but Yallop himself was a teammate of Aguair on the national team at the end of his career and the start of Aguair's career.

Grizzly, I don't know if it's the wine talking ([:I]), but I couldn't disagree with you more:

1) Yallop not selecting Aguiar for the Wales game was a questionable selection? Most people on this board feel that we fielded the strongest team we could against Wales and Belize (including Brennan, Bircham, Klukowski etc.). The only questionable selection was maybe Watson and he happened to perform better than expected. So, who from the Wales game should've been left off the team for Aguiar to play? Sure we could've used Aguiar for some of the later games in WCQ but remember it was Aguiar himself who withdrew his name from selection and retired from international competition in May. Also, if Yallop disliked Aguiar so much and had already decided who he was going to play, why was he invited to the Manchester camp?

2) The stuff about Devos, Nsaliwa and Kulkowski is purely speculative hindsight-aided crap. Remember, De Vos wasn't "diagnosed" with a broken bone until he got to Canada a couple days before the game. Do you fly in someone from Europe on a couple days notice for cover or do you go with someone who impressed you recently that won't be as jetlagged?

3) You keep bringing up the fact that Onstad played horribly, but realistically how many games did he lose us? Costa Rica, I'll give you that one. Sure he didn't look great against Belize, but he was hardly tested. For the rest of the games, check the scores again:

a)Guatemala (2-0): First goal could hardly have been blamed on Onstad. Ruiz got away from Pizz. Second goal maybe, but we still didn't score against Guatemala.

b)Honduras (1-1): Is he really expected to stop a penalty kick?

c)Costa Rica (1-0): That was a helluva goal by Wanchope. I'm pretty sure he kept us in this game more than he lost it for us. Still can't win if you don't score.

d)Honduras (1-1): Late equaliser by Honduras. Don't remeber exactly how this one went down, but I remember an errant Watson header dropping the ball into the Honduran's lap. Pretty sure it wasn't Onstad's fault.

e)Costa Rica (3-1): Bobbled the ball. I already conceded that one to you. Remeber though that after that goal Yallop went on a full-on attack leaving Onstad by himself for the second goal. And the third from the set piece was really nice.

Now, I'm not saying that Onstad looked great at all times, but he did keep us in those games and, in my opinion, was far from constantly poor.

To get back on topic, I do think Yallop reads this board because he tried to bring Menezes back into the fold. Menezes was a favourite around here and in august/sept a lot of voyageurs were mentioning that he would help on D. Lo and behold, he made a reappearance from the depths of the Chinese league.

[The Ref]

A person close to Yallop told me that he is "a man with a mission". Whatever that means it seems to me that his mission so far has been futile. Respect to Onstand, personally I have never liked him and never will. I find his goalkeeping movement or lack-thereof to be just too stiff and lazy. However I am not in Yallop's shoes, I am sure he truly intended to win with the players he chose. I think any coach does. What bothers me in his case and in Holger's case as well is that, he knew darned well what he was up against before he took the job. Our players' resources are known, the CSA's limited support is known, the opposition is known and scarce time for training (coaching) is known. Did he (Yallop) and Holger led us fans to believe we would be in the running for the World Cup, perhaps. I don't remember reading any frank (no pun intended) declarations saying something different.

[redhat]

I agree that Yallop may read this board, maybe not that frequently, as suspected.

The thing is, once it's posted, it's open for review by anyone. That includes

MNT players, their families, or their close friends. Like codegoat is Josh's brother,

and 7 is our best connection to Bremen.

I'm sure some of the CSA members and the media may have lurked as well. They are also

aware of a few posters who have nothing to offer but unconstructive criticism. But there's

an awareness none the less. I'm sure Craig Forrest, like Gerry Dobson, checks this board too.

Pozniak, Thunder Dan, Jason de Vos, Serioux, and Iain Hume's family have posted before.

It's a small world, and a few of us that got some email from MNT players can attest to that.

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by beachesl

And DJT pleading with him to remove them so that the harm could be undone

That wasn't me.

quote:Originally posted by Timotas

I'm sure it was... but did any of the moderators check his IP and state his location?

Yes, I check these things. But I don't usually announce it.

[Grizzly]

In resonse to El Hombre this is definitely hindsight speculation (I would leave out the crap part though ) but what alternative do we have to this. Yallop has certainly not explained his decisions and has only given numerous excuses for the failure none of which have included self-responsibility. There has certainly been very little media coverage of these issues nor critical questioning of Yallop. Thus, we are only left to theorize. I don't think even the Yallop suporters would dispute that his player selection during WCQ was quite poor. I am also not claiming that this was some type of conspiracy by Yallop to stop us from qualifying. Yallop was known for believing in his players and sticking with them in San Jose. Maybe as coach in San Jose it was a good quality because he wasn't the one responsible for signing players. He was given a set group of players to work with and had a talent pool that was definitely among the top of the MLS clubs. It certainly seems like he had his mind made up on certain players and was not willing or able to modify his opinion when they didn't perform as expected. One thing that makes me suspicious that he didn't want competition for his chosen players is that one could rarely quibble with Yallop's choice of starters given the lineup he had called. The players many here would have preferred as starters weren't usually on the bench at all. The starting lineup was almost a no-brainer given the bench that he called. Of course there are other possible reasons for this. Examples: 1) the CSA was so cheap that it said he could only call a certain number of European players, 2) Yallop is just a bad judge of talent and ability, 3)the MLS was not adequate preparation for him and he was way out of his depth, etc.

Regarding Aguair, I think he was one of the 6 or 7 players like Brennan who should have been penciled in as a starter given the league and team he was playing for. He, like Brennan, should not have been guaranteed starters but it should have been their positions to lose. As such I could name quite a few players on the Wales lineup who could have been replaced by Aguair: Pozniak, Imhof, Bircham for example (these are all players I think who were worthy of being called unlike some WCQ callups but who would rate under Aguair). Aguair was called to the two pre-Yallop friendlies although he declined to attend because of his wife giving birth. Yallop was hired as the uniter and pretty much had to call Aguair for the camp to make it seem like he was giving everyone a fair chance. Maybe Yallop just wasn't impressed by him at the camp or he didn't fit into his plans but I think he deserved at least a half in a friendly to prove himself and anything less was unfair. As I stated above I do not agree with his (or Brennan) removing themselves from the selection. However, Yallop has some responsibility for ensuring that the players feel fairly treated. With the exception of Aguair I do feel that the Wales lineup was pretty good as was the Belize lineup. Had we played with a similar lineup for the whole WCQ I think things would have gone better and I at least wouldn't have as much to criticize if they didn't. In fact, the good selections for these games with the exception of the keeper made me optimistic after the Belize games. It was exactly when we started playing important games that Yallop's selections got crazy.

quote:Remember, De Vos wasn't "diagnosed" with a broken bone until he got to Canada a couple days before the game. Do you fly in someone from Europe on a couple days notice for cover or do you go with someone who impressed you recently that won't be as jetlagged?

You don't fly someone in from Europe on a few days notice. You call a lineup where there is competition for each spot and you assume that each player could be injured in practice or during the game or play poorly and may have to be replaced. As I said before, several starters were not even called as subs or injury cover and thus we were screwed when DeVos was not available at the last minute.

Onstad was shaky throughout the tournament and we were very lucky not to have been penalized for this more frequently. His positioning was terrible and he frequently bobbled balls. In Kingston he made several bobbles despite having very few shots but Belize didn't have strikers around the net to take advantage of them like Costa Rica did. He cost us 3 points against Costa Rica when we needed them most. Maybe we would have lost the lead afterwards or been screwed by the ref but that bobble killed us and the worst thing is he had done this all along but Yallop didn't seem to notice. There are a few more goals one could argue about but even when goals were the result of a mistake by a defender he often wasn't well positioned to have a chance at a save. A defence functions far better when they know they have a dependable keeper behind them. Note that we won the one game he didn't play even though we played a B-team.

Yallop may or may not surf here but I don't see Menezes selection as indicative of this. He was well known to the CSA and had played frequently for us under Ossieck. If it was a less prominent player not well known to the CSA or who hadn't played for the national team that posters were raving about (Grande for example) I might be more inclined to believe there might have been some influence.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Just for the record, the first Aguiar post I recall was on the old (sic) Network 54 board on a thread about a weekend of Canucks in Europe. All he said was "Thanks Jeffrey" and signed FA. It took a while for me to realize who it was. And all he was doing was thanking me for simply posting his team's (Beira Mar at that time)results and his performance. Very gracious, since then we have occasionally written. A classy guy though certainly tempermental.

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

It certainly seems like he had his mind made up on certain players and was not willing or able to modify his opinion when they didn't perform as expected. One thing that makes me suspicious that he didn't want competition for his chosen players is that one could rarely quibble with Yallop's choice of starters given the lineup he had called. The players many here would have preferred as starters weren't usually on the bench at all.

Who exactly does this refer to? Brennan? Because then you should say "The player (singular) many here would have preferred as a starter (singular) wasn't usually on the bench at all.

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Regarding Aguair, I think he was one of the 6 or 7 players like Brennan who should have been penciled in as a starter given the league and team he was playing for. He, like Brennan, should not have been guaranteed starters but it should have been their positions to lose. As such I could name quite a few players on the Wales lineup who could have been replaced by Aguair: Pozniak, Imhof, Bircham for example (these are all players I think who were worthy of being called unlike some WCQ callups but who would rate under Aguair).

Aguiar is D-mid, correct? So, you are saying that Aguiar is better than Imhof? Myself I thought Imhof played well, so I would disagree with you there, but that's just opinion.

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Aguair was called to the two pre-Yallop friendlies although he declined to attend because of his wife giving birth. Yallop was hired as the uniter and pretty much had to call Aguair for the camp to make it seem like he was giving everyone a fair chance. Maybe Yallop just wasn't impressed by him at the camp or he didn't fit into his plans but I think he deserved at least a half in a friendly to prove himself and anything less was unfair.

So, half of the only friendly we had before WCQ starts you want to give to someone who the coach doesn't think is up to snuff rather than get the players used to playing with each other? It's unfair that Yallop had a squad in mind and he wanted to give them as much time to gel as possible?

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

As I stated above I do not agree with his (or Brennan) removing themselves from the selection. However, Yallop has some responsibility for ensuring that the players feel fairly treated.

So Aguiar wasn't treated fairly because Yallop indicated to him that he wasn't in the squad for Wales but could very likely be used later on?

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

With the exception of Aguair I do feel that the Wales lineup was pretty good as was the Belize lineup. Had we played with a similar lineup for the whole WCQ I think things would have gone better and I at least wouldn't have as much to criticize if they didn't. In fact, the good selections for these games with the exception of the keeper made me optimistic after the Belize games. It was exactly when we started playing important games that Yallop's selections got crazy.

I'm sure Yallop would have played something near the same lineup if he could. However, remember the injuries/suspensions we had starting with Guatemala: Mckenna, De Vos, Radzinski, Bircham, Hume. I'm not making excuses, just trying to give you a little context for the team selection.

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

You don't fly someone in from Europe on a few days notice. You call a lineup where there is competition for each spot and you assume that each player could be injured in practice or during the game or play poorly and may have to be replaced. As I said before, several starters were not even called as subs or injury cover and thus we were screwed when DeVos was not available at the last minute.

So is this another case of where the ideal is nowhere near the actuality? Sure, it would be great to fly in everyone we have in Europe for every game, but this isn't going to happen. Of the 18 that are usually called (that's common CSA practice, right?), 10 were flown in from Europe. For injury cover, a number of A-leaguers were brought in. Unfortunately, De Vos got injured, so Pizzolitto had to go in. I don't think this is indicative of some big conspiracy where Yallop used inferior players so as to not threaten his starters (as stated by you in your first post).

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Onstad was shaky throughout the tournament and we were very lucky not to have been penalized for this more frequently. His positioning was terrible and he frequently bobbled balls. In Kingston he made several bobbles despite having very few shots but Belize didn't have strikers around the net to take advantage of them like Costa Rica did. He cost us 3 points against Costa Rica when we needed them most. Maybe we would have lost the lead afterwards or been screwed by the ref but that bobble killed us and the worst thing is he had done this all along but Yallop didn't seem to notice. There are a few more goals one could argue about but even when goals were the result of a mistake by a defender he often wasn't well positioned to have a chance at a save. A defence functions far better when they know they have a dependable keeper behind them.

Jazic looked shaky at times and he cost us a game but you fail to rail on him for "constantly playing poorly". Others have noted that De Guzman looked shaky, does that mean he was "constantly playing poorly"? I think Krammerhead had a post recently regarding the perception of A-Leaguers and how we expect them to fail (or something along those lines) and I really think this applies to Onstad as well. From a fan's perspective he was behind the 8 ball from the get go and nothing short of a superhuman performance would have made him an acceptable choice as keeper.

For each goal scored on him that was his fault, if I was an Onstad booster I could turn it around. Where was Pizzolitto when Ruiz scored in the first game? Who was marking Wanchope when Onstad bobbled the ball? It's all a matter of perspective. What gets lost in the shuffle are the key saves Onstad made and yes there were a few of them. He may have "cost us 3 points when we needed them the most" but that totally negates the fact that he kept us in the 3 games before that. Go back to my first post and look at the scores again.

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Note that we won the one game he didn't play even though we played a B-team.

You know who else didn't play? Stalteri, Hume, De Guzman and De Vos. By your logic they should all lose their spots because they weren't playing when we beat Guatemala. You can't be selective when you make an argument like that. I would really like to see a tape of that game just to see how busy Hirschfeld was.

[JayWay]

Peter Pinnizotto posted a few years back; this was on the old board. And this past year both Duncan Wilde and Richard Goddard (or as his girlfriend says, "Gaddahd") posted in the club section.

I've always thought the idea of national team members posting on here was neat. After Aguiar's posts, I'm not so sure.

[canso]

Hey Grizzly, why do you think Yallop is making so many excuses? He's not getting any pressure from the media, so he must be trying to deflect criticism from somewhere, and the most vocal critics he has come from this board! I bet he's lurking right now to see hwat !

Is it a coincidence that the Soccerbeast started posting around the same time as Frank got the job? Hmmmm....clever disguise Frank, nobody would ever believe the MNT manager could be so flaky and full of bad ideas!

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by DJT

That wasn't me.

Sorry, DJT, it wasn't you. I went back to check and the post that I was referring to was taken away, and now that I think about it, it wasn't a moderator.

Some of the more heated posts were removed, either by the posters themselves or by the moderators of the time, so the "Yallop announces roster for Wales" dialogues, referenced by Massive Attack above, is in fact incomplete.

[Cheeta]

Forgotten about that thread.

The more I read it the more I like it. If anything, FA has got himself a pair of big brass ones, that's for sure.

In hindsight, without having even seen him play in years, I'd have to say he could have brought something to our holding mid that wasn't there. Attitude and bite.

Damnit. I'm just winding myself up here. Curses!

[The Beaver]

Though I am sure that other players know about this forum and read posts here and there, I think they are wise NOT to post here. Yallop and his staff should certainly NOT post here. This isn't to say that I do not think they are welcome here, I just do not think it'd be prudent. I mean, why open yourself up to some of the ridiculous and poorly reasoned criticism that some of us come up with? Nothing much can be gained from posting here, especially for coaches. Yallop, in my mind, does not need to explain himself or his failure to advance to the Hex. Yallop needs to worry about developing this team so it becomes very competitive. And players, like writers and musicians etc, would do well NOT to listen too closely to their critics. They need to work at becoming better performers and have all the qualified coaching they need.

[BrennanFan]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

Yallop, in my mind, does not need to explain himself or his failure to advance to the Hex.

I disagree. In my view, the coach is definitely answerable to the fans. In true soccer nations, no manager would be able to get away with questionnable callups without explaining himself. The thing is, in those nations the media does the work of hounding the coach for the answers the fans want. Think about it, not calling top players like Brennan and Aguiar would have caused a MAJOR uproar in any other place, but this is Canada so we let it slide, we don't demand answers, instead we simply 'hope' the team improves. I dont expect Yallop to post his reasonings on this site, but people like Neil Davidson should get around to interviewing Yallop, as he's done with some players, and asking him what the hell led him to choose Watson over Nsaliwa, Imhoff over Aguiar, and Simpson over Brennan.

[kelownaguy]

You make some good points there El Hombre, I also tend to agree that I don't think there was a whole lot of drop off in talent between Aguiar and Imhoff, and that selection certainly didn't make or break our qualification. As for the Brennan situation, I think there is still more behind the scenes we haven't heard about, and I'd love to hear the full story. I think Simpson is gonna be a great player for us in a few years, but maybe needed a little bit more seasoning at the pro level before jumping into the World Cup Qualifying, so yes , I would have liked to seen a vet like Brennan in his place.

[denis]

I agree with brennenfan, Yallop does owe a better explanation that just complaining that it was player skill that cost us. I think that was a sad cop out. I would have a lot more respect for him if he would take some responsibility for the failure of the MNT. I can’t say that this failure lyes entirely on his shoulders, however I think its easy for most to see that he could of done better in not only player selection but also (and perhaps more importantly) in the formations and strategies he used.

[kelownaguy]

denis, I think a lot of people here are taking that Yallop excuse out of context. Its not like he came out on TV and called up the press after the games and said we lost because of lack of skill. He was at a coaching conference in the lower mainland on coaching development, and stated that lack of technical and creative skills in Canadian players was one of the reasons why we lost. He was trying to get the message across to coaches of youth players how important it is to develop those skills on players at young ages, because down the road it affects the national team. He is not using this as a copout as some people here seem to have jumped to the conclusion he is.