Toronto Star Dec 8 article regarding stadium

[juaninho]

The Perkins speaketh...

Dec. 8 2004

Public cash for stadium a waste

DAVE PERKINS

The Toronto Argonauts' owners are going to get a tax writeoff for a charitable donation to help build their team's new football stadium, which means it's time to stop throwing good taxpayer money after bad.

The federal and provincial governments should review their participation in the planned Argonaut/soccer stadium at York University, for which the Argo owners' $20 million portion of the proposed $70 million cost will be written off, quite legally, as a charitable contribution.

The feds ($27 million) and province ($8 million) are in for half the proposed costs for the stadium, scheduled to open in 2006. It has been agreed to in principle, but still is awaiting full approval from the York University board of directors.

That's not due for several weeks, according to a York spokesman.

Howard Sokolowski and David Cynamon, the Argos' 50-50 owners, have committed $20 million to the project for their team, the Grey Cup champion. Sokolowski reiterated in a couple of interviews this week that the two also have agreed to pick up any operational or cost overruns — and York has had some serious cost overruns on recent capital projects.

Sokolowski also confirmed that the Argos' $20 million will be a charitable donation made through the York University Foundation, of which Sokolowski is a member of the board of directors. As such, it becomes a tax credit.

In light of the SkyDome's bottom-line backhanded slap at taxpayers last week — sold for $25 million after costing $630 million in mostly public money to build — this is the last thing we need to hear right now, with hospitals and social services stretched near the breaking point.

Enough of subsidizing pro sports' stadiums.

Nobody's done anything wrong here. So let's keep it that way and pull the plug. If it's such a winning project, it can be done without involving the public.

Naturally, not everyone will agree with this. Sokolowski, whose charitable work and expertise in the field of raising money for worthwhile causes is well established, sees only opportunity for York University in building a 25,000-seat stadium. He said that his and Cynamon's football team will use the stadium only 10 days and that York plans to utilize a seasonal air bubble over the field to make it a year-round facility.

"Between soccer use and community use, we're a very minor part of this stadium."

But not of the funding, the Argos' portion of which will be directed through the York University Foundation, the university's arms-length fundraising establishment. Board members of charities routinely contribute to their causes. Sokolowski's Tribute Communities last year appears on the foundation Web site as donating between $250,000 and $499,999. YUF, according to its audited annual statement, last year took in $17 million in donations and allocated $18 million to various projects.

"I'm not sure what the issue is," Sokolowski said when asked about the optics of contributing to a charity on whose board he sits and ending up with a stadium for his football team. "We won't own the stadium. York will own it. If there's an optical problem, I don't see it. My membership on the board is a completely separate entity from the Toronto Argonauts," he said. "I had made charitable contributions there well before any talk of a football stadium."

Earlier this fall, the Argos thought they had a deal at the University of Toronto that, Sokolowski said, would have cost himself and Cynamon $15 million as their share.

He said he was unsure if that would have been considered a charitable donation as well. "I believe it would have been, but we never had to write the cheque," he said. "That cost us more than $1 million, for developing plans and consultants.

"After that deal cratered — wrongly in my opinion — York approached us and asked us what we would require," he said. "We saw there was a tremendous opportunity at York (and) we feel very comfortable about what the stadium will cost us. I went to York U. David (Cynamon) played football at York. It's a wonderful institution."

Chances for cost overruns, if one considers York's recent construction history, do not seem unreasonable.

Despite claims from York officials that recent buildings have been completed on budget, at least two recent structures resulted in significant cost overruns.

Documents obtained by the Star show that the Schulich School of Business, originally forecast at $61.6 million in 2000, ended up costing $74.2 million.

The Technology Enhanced Learning (TEL) Building, erected mostly with money from Ontario's Superbuild Growth Fund, started at $76.78 million and ended, according to York's own Web site, at $88.3 million.

None of which means the football/soccer stadium necessarily will go over budget, but costs overruns are part of doing business, especially in sports venues. (Once again, remember the SkyDome.)

Speaking of the SkyDome, Sokolowski, always a big sports fan, was part of a group years ago that tried to buy the Blue Jays and the SkyDome, the first incarnation of Sportsco. Pat Gillick was the group's front man. When it was unable to buy the package, the group was rearranged, although Sokolowski stayed in for at least a year and got out before Sportsco, which bought the stadium for $85 million, began losing to the point it eventually sold to Rogers Communications last week for a paltry $25 million. Sokolowski said he is unable to discuss his role in Sportsco, having signed a confidentiality agreement upon his escape.

One sports item on which Sokolowski did well, albeit in a tiny capacity, was on ownership of the St. Catharines Stompers, a former Blue Jay affiliate. He was a member of a group organized by Greg Sorbara that bought the single-A ball club from the Blue Jays for $950,000 in the late 1990s on the understanding the team would stay in the Niagara Peninsula for at least three years. After three years of declining fan interest, the team was sold to the New York Mets for $3.5 million (U.S.). "I only had 5 per cent. I was a relatively small partner," Sokolowski said.

Sorbara now is Ontario finance minister. He is one of those proposing that the subway be extended to York University. That, rather than yet another stadium, is the place to spend our tax dollars.

[Massive Attack]

Dave Perkins is a jacka.ss. Where was the outrage over the funding for the Rexall Centre or the Ricoh Coliseum? The retard doesn't realize that the WYC is an international tournament that will be good publicity for the city and the country. The government funding is the CSA contribution. If the Argo owners are smart enough to find a way to save a little by making a charitble contribution, I say good for them. There are lots of legal ways to take advantage of the tax system in our country (rich people are good at this, that's why they're rich).

Also, where do we draw the line then for government spending then? I don't think the movie industry should get tax incentives. I think we're wasting money on another Olympics. That's life. That's how government works.

[Gian-Luca]

The problem with people like Perkins (or Jack Layton, who is also whining about this in another article that the Star printed) is that they are mistakenly perceiving this stadium to be the Argos private stadium, first, foremost and pretty well only. That's been a problem from day one with this stadium, particularly with the media. The other Toronto Star article even goes as far as to neglect to mention that the stadium will be used by our national soccer teams when they give a list of the tenants (although they do mention the Lynx, ironically). The Gov't has said "we are giving this money for the sake of soccer" and they tend completely (or in the case of Layton, I suspect conveniently) ignore that fact.

[BC supporter]

Welcome to Canada. Please deposit EVERY SINGLE LAST TAX DOLLAR INTO THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

Jeez, is it possible for this country to show even less vision? Dare I suggest that sometimes the masses need circuses, too?

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by BC supporter

Welcome to Canada. Please deposit EVERY SINGLE LAST TAX DOLLAR INTO THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

Jeez, is it possible for this country to show even less vision? Dare I suggest that sometimes the masses need circuses, too?

Yes, but hockey is all we need. Best damned gladiator sport since Spartacus was in short pants.

(money goes into health care because that is a "hot button" election issue for many Canadians. mind you, if our citizens were more physcially active, we'd probably reduce considerably the prevalence of a good lot of our disease etc. Prevention is a vital part of health care, but not particularly popular politically.)

[Cheeta]

So the math adds up to 55 of the 70 millions required coming directly or indirectly from the public purse. With the Argos contribution in the long run amounting to squat. Ouch.

Now if the Argos really are only a part time tennent, I don't think there is much to complain about. If the Argos run the whole show, which I think during the CFL season at least is 99.9% likely, then there is likely going to be room for a few good yells to be had.

And it's hard to imagine the Argos being "hands off" when they're on the hook for the stadiums operating cost, whether the Argos are in-season or no. I don't expect many events at York Stadium will be approved unless they're cost effective. At least not after the "honeymoon" is over and the political heat is off.

Don't get me wrong. While I find room for criticism I still say build the damn thing. The ratepayers in Ontario and Canada will get back every nickle that the Crown has invested in the joint one way or another. Of that be sure. You can allways trust the taxman to find a way.

P.S. Honestly I can't wait for York to be operating. Sorry to say, but given the CSA's attitude York is going to be The National Stadium and is going to get the lion's share of the domestic matchs. It is going to be kinda cool though having a National Stadium. Vs from the four corners getting together for a contest at York. It'll be a grand tradition in no time.

[Massive Attack]

Actually Cheeta the math doesn't work exactly like that. If the Argos are putting in 20 million as a charitable donation, it doesn't mean that the Canadian gov't is giving the Argo's back 20 mil. It just means they won't have to pay taxes on 20 million dollars, so technically, it works out to the Argo's saving 5 million. (A real accountant can correct me on this).

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

(money goes into health care because that is a "hot button" election issue for many Canadians. mind you, if our citizens were more physcially active, we'd probably reduce considerably the prevalence of a good lot of our disease etc. Prevention is a vital part of health care, but not particularly popular politically.)

Nah. They just say "it's either that or health care". The military knows that argument too well.

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

given the CSA's attitude York is going to be The National Stadium and is going to get the lion's share of the domestic matchs.

I don't think so. Less than a year ago that "honour" went to Vancouver. Conclude what you will.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

Write a letter to the editor

[devioustrevor]

Does anyone know whatever came of the proposal to allow people to get tax incentives for sports equipment and registration fees?

I always thought that the proposal was a brilliant idea. I was raised by a single mom on social assistance and she always told me that she could only afford for me to play 1 sport per season. I chose baseball in the Spring/Summer and Basketball in the Fall/Winter, if the sports equipment/registration fee tax refund ever went into effect other children in that situation wouldn't have to be as limited as I was.

If it wasn't for my Aunt and Uncle, I never would've been able to afford to play soccer when I was a kid.

[Free kick]

Dave Perkins' writes alot about baseball. Much like McCown, those whose primary interests lie with baseball are those who have a greater tendancy cut up the game of soccer or hold a viewpoint that ignores or does not advance the interests of soccer. Its a trend that I have noticed. Maybe its a coincidence then again, maybe not. We saw similar editorials in the US from writers like Frank Deford ( another baseball writer) and although Perkins is not taking shots at soccer in this piece, he has in past.

Baseball and soccer are played in the same season in North america and most kids will ikely choose one or the other. As such, you would imagine that there is a great deal of competion for registration and participation. You could extend that probably sales of playing equipment as well. Remember those articles in the London Ontario media that were being posted on Network 54 board a few years ago? this was a the time of the dispute over usage of playing field for Youth soccer versus baseball. Perhaps media guys are no different in their resentment towards some of the positives that are happening with soccer in North America at both the grassroots levels and in atendance and Televsion numbers.

Another point for comspiracies theorist to maul over! Ever notice that most of the invstors in the MLS have interest in the NFL. None that I can think of are Major league baseball owners.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

[

Another point for comspiracies theorist to maul over! Ever notice that most of the invstors in the MLS have interest in the NFL. None that I can think of are Major league baseball owners.

I suspect that has far more to do with the two sports (football & soccer) being able to use the same facilities. If you own the stadium for one, you are in a better position to field a team for the other. Baseball is less compatible (and the field can often look like crap when converted for soccer, as we've seen from going to Rhinos games over the years).

[Andrew W]

What a disjointed article. He tries to paint Sokoloski as having some sort of conflict of interest which there doesn't appear to be. He also seems to be warning of cost overruns being the norm at York, yet the Argos owners have said they'll cover any of that.

So I don't see the problem or how that will affect the two levels of government and their contribution. He has to face facts that this is money being spent to facilitate a tournament of which the Argonauts are not a part, and said money is already dedicated or budgeted. It was merely good business sense on behalf of the Argos to get involved with an opportunity that benefits professional football in Toronto (which is on the upswing) and potentially international and domesic soccer (not to mention the University's teams).

While govt money can always be spent on better things, in a country such as Canada with our budget systems, this is not money being taken away from other worthwhile ventures but money that is likely earmarked for economic or sporting development anyways. In other words, if the money's coming from the right pot, then there is no reason to bitch unnecessarily.

[RJB]

What's the point of having a National Stadium, if we never have home games?

Or are you guys suggesting that this stadium is going to magically fix that?

[savagebeast]

Dave Perkins is so anti soccer it ain't funny. Doesn't he realize the

importance of the WYC in 2007 to Canada? It's only the second major FIFA tournament behind the World Cup. Where was this clown when skydome was

being built at public expence? The Toronto Blue Jays franchise should pay back the taxpayers for that one.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

Or are you guys suggesting that this stadium is going to magically fix that?

Fix it, yes. Magically, no.

Speaking of magic, the number of home friendlies against other national teams that we've had since Varsity Stadium was torn down (a big fat zero) compared to the amount we used to have can't be a magical coincidence. Canada Cups & USA 94 friendlies aside (both of which seem to be things of the past) the vast majority of our friendlies prior to Varsity being torn down were in Toronto. A new stadium in Toronto will help fix that problem, though we still need to get matches held all across the country.

[Massive Attack]

I found a nice little rebuttal in the Star's Letters section from the York U. VP of finances:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

York U. needs facility

Re: Public cash for stadium a waste - Sports, Dec. 8.

The Star is chastising business leaders for deriving a tax benefit from a donation that will enable York University to build a much-needed stadium for its 50,000 students. This is a York University stadium first and foremost. Enthusiastic York students will use the stadium more than 300 times a year (not the 11 uses reported), vastly more than any other user. Community access is a fundamental aspect of the project, including soccer at the local, national and international level, led by the Canadian Soccer Association. Thus the Toronto Argos will be only one of a number of sports clubs in the community with access to this facility, in their case, for an estimated 10 games a year.

The charitable sector is supported by donations and the tax benefits provided encourage such philanthropy. There is a long history of charitable donations being used to fund projects for the community that might not otherwise have been built. Why is a donation to a stadium at a publicly assisted university so different from a donation to an opera house or a museum? Currently, York has the lowest athletic space of any university in Ontario and is addressing this very real student need.

The attempt to cast a questionable light on the York stadium is odd. In Canada, many university stadium projects have relied heavily on private donations. Is this yet another example of "downtownism" by those who have a different agenda for the stadium?

York is located in north Toronto and at the very centre of the Greater Toronto Area, making the stadium accessible to the entire region. The employment, salaries and overall economic and community benefits the new stadium will bring to this area are significant. Using the Star's logic, most worthwhile public-private projects would never see the light of day and we would all lose.

Gary Brewer, Vice President, Finance and Administration,

York University, Toronto

http://tinyurl.com/53o2s

[Daniel]

And in the crazy backwards-world of not-controlling-the-stadium, it'll be Fielturf after the juniors to complete the trifecta of the East's unusable stadiums for the Nats.