Yallop laments lack of technique

[Canuck Oranje]

Again I will say that our kids under 15-16 are very close to kids on technical skills. That is not to say that technique cannot be improved.

My experience coaching 14-16 year olds has told me that these kids still simply don't understand very well 3v3 or 2v2 tactics. Small-sided games are required to develop better tactical decision making.

From what I saw of the MNT, they were not on the same page tactically (as said by others).

[pstain]

I think the CSA should break down the development like this.

U20-Emphasize on creativity, technique and skill development. Maybe they can train these kids in 5-aside games, pig in the middle, futsal, etc.

Over 20 should be the time where the tactics and decision making wshould be taught. An example is when I was Watching De Guzman trying to dribble his way throw the central midfield, it was just poor decision making on his part. There needs to be more emphasis on developing intelligent players when they get older.

I remember Arsene Wenger said something to the effect of a lot of kids under 20 have good skills and technique but the ones that develop a football mind over 20 are the ones who make it.

[GeorgeBestFan]

quote:Originally posted by GeorgeBestFan

Yup. What I remember Yallop qualifying this with, was that he didn't have enough highly skilled players to be able to survive losing key players (injuries, suspensions etc). He managed to say this without denigrating his team pool.

This group was (as others have said) trying to steer the youth soccer oil-tanker in the direction of "more skill development" and away from a "we must win the U11 gold trophy at all costs" mentality. Lots of soccer coaches feel the same way. Yallop, Lenarduzzi, Valentine and co are really making a plea to change the youth soccer system. which means they really need youth coaches (that's who they were speaking to) to help them cut through the political carp (anag) - and focus on developing the most skilled players we can.

Not Rocket science. Who would you rather watch? Brazil? or the USA?

Ya can't fault these guys for making the effort to change youth soccer. They take a lot of flak and they sure aren't doing it for the money. I for one was very, very impressed with the presentation I saw.

My hat's off to 'em.

[Grizzly]

A different attitude in the Russian soccer federation leadership than the CSA even though they are still able to qualify despite the 7-1 defeat to Portugal. Both the federation head and the coach are under pressure for results. Full article at: http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=reu-yartsev&prov=reuters&type=lgns

President of federation about coach Yartsev:

"Yartsev must convince the board that he is still capable of leading our national team to the World Cup finals in Germany.

"But if we feel he doesn't have a clear idea of how to handle his duties, then we'll look elsewhere for answers."

"The RFU board gave Yartsev and the national team a failing grade for their performance in 2004," Koloskov said.

"Today Yartsev was criticised and rightly so for his inability to handle the pressure, to communicate properly with his players, with club coaches and so on.

"Yartsev was wrong to blame his players for the defeat in Lisbon. The coach must always bear the ultimate responsibility."

[Crockpot]

I have been reading with interest the recent discussions on player development and and development of a Canadian team.

It is not a coincidence that the Canadian team qualified for the World Cup Finals when the majority of available players were left over from the NASL. It was also no coincidence that there was a failure in 1990 and a revival in 1994 when players had been playing in the CSL. In 1994 we failed to go to the World Cup Finals by a point, being beaten in the final game by Mexico in Toronto by 2-1. We then had another shot in Australia, just failing on penalties.

What has happened since ? Virtually nothing. We do have guys in Europe and we do need to have certain "stars" playing over there but we do need the majority of our players playing over here in a professional environment. They need to be training on a daily basis with good coaches. We keep hearing about Canadian Leagues/Regional Leagues etc. The simple answer is no one wants to invest the money that is required to produce a league.

In Canada there are over 800,000 registered soccer players.

If every province tithed every player $10 per year we would gross over $8.25 million. There could be 12 clubs (I would prefer 6 east and 6 west) who could be given a budget of almost $300,000 per year to produce a team. The league would run from April through August, teams would be a mixture of pros and amateurs, guys playing for a pro contract. Travel would be limited and restricted to east or west until the Championships where East would meet West in a Championship weekend two semi finals and a Final.

The idea would be that clubs would not have to rely on gate receipts entirely , for their income.

The Whitecaps, Lynx, and Impact could carry on in the A League and if it comes to fruition the MLS franchise would carry on privately owned. That is probably the limit of privately owned clubs in Canada.

The league would be overseen by the CSA but would be run by a league board.

This may be pie in the sky but here in BC I see a good league structure with Victoria, Calgary, Edmonton, Kelowna,and a couple of teams in the Lower Mainland.

The "big Boys" could come in for the Cup which could now become "open". There could be regional qualification to let other senior teams in with a couple being in the draw at "Round 1" At National Championships I have spoken to Provinces such as Newfoundland, and Nova Scotia, who at this time would be too far away to be involved. The discussions were informal but it was agreed that it may be worth their investment if it meant that their players would have a chance to play in the league.

I know this sounds optimistic but I see it as the only way we as a soccer family can forge ahead. We have to take responsibilty, maybe if we all do this the major sponsors will agree that there is some merit to our game , and the money may start flowing.

Inertia is the tendency of a body at rest to remain at rest, unless it gets a big shove. There is a lot of inertia in our soccer system at all levels. Lets give it a shove !!

Lets lobby our provincial bodies to consider this.

$10 per player per year( Lets get the coaches to chuck in $10 also)is nothing compared to the potential benefits.

As far as player development is concerned we very often miss probably the most important ingredient, that of attitude,

One of your writers recently discussed a player I coached for several years, Jason Rackstraw. The writer felt he was the best player he had played against.

He said that he was rejected in England at Grimsby Town as he was too small. That is wrong, I took him there (twice) and I was involved in all discussions.

The last thing that was said was Jason is good enough to play, but he does not have the right attitude to be a player. They said to me , "If he changes bring him back "

Jason is, I am afraid typical of many players here. I got him at U14, it was too late, he had no discipline, and although as it was said, he could score goals, he was never going to go to the next level, if we look at the record, he never quite made it in crunch situations, I have never had a player with such a bad disciplinary record. As a kid he was so good that all his coaches let him have his own way, he was answerable to no one because they knew he could win games for them. They let him choose where he wanted to play how long he wanted to play. He told me that once he wanted to play in goal and did not want to "run around" The coach said if he scored three goals he could go in goal. he went out and scored 3 in 5 minutes and went in goal for the rest of the game. That sort of attitude has to be curbed and channelled into positive action. When I tried to bring some discipline into Jason's gamehe left and went to another club (one season and he came back)

That attitude still prevails amongst many players. Yes we do need technique, but never forget, technique is the application of skill and skill is natural. What we can do is provide the environment for the available skills to be channelled correctly accepting that some players can have careers in the game without all the skill and technique. Do not tell me that you can compare Jap Stam and David Beckham, as far as technique is concerned, but they both won European Cup winner medals. A team of Beckhams could not win anything and a team of Stams, could not either. Look what every player has to offer the game, or the team, and if they can be the best at that you are getting somewhere.

I am getting ancient now but have a great example for the older ones of us. Alan Ball once asked Alf Ramsey what his role in the England team was. Ramsey asked him if he had a dog, and if so if he ever took it for a walk. When Alan replied Yes, Ramsey asked if he ever threw it a ball or a stick. When Alan again replied yes, Ramsey asked him what the dog did, He gets it and brings it back to me said Alan, Thats your job said Ramsey, get the bloody ball and give it to Bobby Charlton !

Hope there is some food for thought

Crockpot (perhaps it should be crackpot)

[Richard]

The one flaw in Crackpot's errr... sorry Crockpot's proposition is the levy on all players he suggests. The vast majority of those 800,000 registered players are youths whose registration fees are paid by their parents. Through my own involvement in soccer from house league through two separate provincial all star programs up to the national player pool (as a parent/administrator/driver not a player) the one consistent theme from the majority of people involved in soccer is an objection to having to pay the shot for elite player development. Yes, there is a small percentage who understand the reasoning but most people have kids playing who will never progress beyond the local club level and the parents have no interest in any of their money being used to sponsor elite player development. It's a nice idea but will only work if imposed undemocratically from the CSA.

[bettermirror]

the $10 dollar levy in theory makes sense. however, i see it as psychologically damaging for all involved. for the non-elite players they see themselves as fodder for the elite players, doing all the hard work for a small few. and for the elite players they begin to see themselves as elite and that they deserve to be treated as such, thus you have a group of players believing everything should be handed to them because they are at the top of the pyramid.

something does need to be done, and i think having a national league is more important that youth development. the americans have shown that once the mls was created, the youth began striving along with coaches and parents to reach that level. they had a target and they saw what was required to achieve it.

a top level can only be created with significant private and corporate investment. the government must also be involved in one way or another. i don't think it's the responsibility of the youth soccer player to fund such a venture. i do believe it should be the other way around which is the problem i see with the super-y. if i am wrong in assuming the players must pay a significant fee to be involved please correct me. i always saw that as the major issue with the provincial set-up as i was lead to believe it cost two-thousand dollars to be on the BC provincial u18 side in 1996-7-8. really, the province should be thanking them for joining and developing soccer and providing the opportunity cost-free, or at the very least minimally considering how few games you actually play as a group in return for the cost - though i do understand the opportunity to travel to america and europe is costly.

[The Beaver]

I'd hazard a guess and say that Yallop's comment regarding technique and qualifying has probably been over-analyzed here. I'd also take a guess that he sort of regrets having said it, though with a press that is pretty well apathetic to soccer, he'll never really have to do the media spin-dance and explain what he meant and why he said it etc. This is not a huge issue at all. I am glad to see positive coaching iniatives being discussed, and I hope they find a strong system to deliver these changes etc.

Yes, Yallop made some mistakes in qualification, but I feel confident that he has the brains and the humility to learn from these mistakes and become a much stronger manager over the next few years. If he does not show that he is learning--while he has a fair shake to do so, mind you--then he must be replaced.

[Thrylos 7]

Bettermirror...

I completely disagree with your comments about elite players and will correct you about Y-league fees.

"the $10 dollar levy in theory makes sense. however, i see it as psychologically damaging for all involved. for the non-elite players they see themselves as fodder for the elite players, doing all the hard work for a small few. and for the elite players they begin to see themselves as elite and that they deserve to be treated as such, thus you have a group of players believing everything should be handed to them because they are at the top of the pyramid. "... "i do believe it should be the other way around which is the problem i see with the super-y. if i am wrong in assuming the players must pay a significant fee to be involved please correct me."

The players that have the potential,abilty & right attitude work very hard to reach their goals..nothing is handed to them. And if they reach the top of the pyramid they have to work just as hard to stay there.There are no guarantees in life,they make sacrifices to reach a higher standard. I do not understand your comment "doing all the hard work for a small few.", please explain.

As far as Y-league fees are concerned you obviously have not been involved in the administrative or technical side of things when it comes to the Super Y-League . We all would love to wave a magic wand and have it cost free. Clubs that are involved do try to keep costs down for the players . Unfortunately if you want quality in facilties, drawing in quality coaches, programs etc we must pay.

It seems that in this country we have a distaste for wanting to be the best,a quest for real passion, drive & commitment to makes things happen.We are never quite willing to really roll up the sleeves because it is hard work. We are quite content to meander through and whine and complain, nothing lost nothing gained. In one breath we complain about lack of this or that and yet in another we are so afraid to put our money & efforts where our mouth is. For this country to go forward in the game at the highest level be it youth or National we can't be satisfied with tooting our horn that we have more registered players in soccer than in hockey.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Thrylos 7

Been reading the thread and various comments about technique/development from our youngest 5-11 years to National level.

....

When the kids reach U-8 we offer 2 programs, Recreational for those who wish to continue on the traditional 12 to a team 1 practice/1 game a week with a volunteer coach or Development for those who are keen and want more. ....

How can you stress skills at the U8 level with 12 per team? Where I live, it's 4 a side at U8, with 8 per team the standard. At the U6 level and below, it's 3 a side. Hard to keep the kids in the game if they sit out 2/3 of a game.

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by Thrylos 7

Bettermirror...

It seems that in this country we have a distaste for wanting to be the best,a quest for real passion, drive & commitment to makes things happen.We are never quite willing to really roll up the sleeves because it is hard work. We are quite content to meander through and whine and complain, nothing lost nothing gained. In one breath we complain about lack of this or that and yet in another we are so afraid to put our money & efforts where our mouth is. For this country to go forward in the game at the highest level be it youth or National we can't be satisfied with tooting our horn that we have more registered players in soccer than in hockey.

Wow, what is in the Abbottsford water? Has somebody's spiked the Fraser with a good dollop of "overgeneralization" and "low national self-esteem"? Canadians do NOT have a distaste for being the best, and they have plenty of heart and passion and work damned hard. The problem isn't that Canadians do NOT want to be the best and make the necessary sacrifices to be the best, but that in general our definition of 'best' is often not the one that you and Elricko--and others--esteem. Fairness for all is an important value in our country, and we often bristle at the idea of the masses supporting the elite, priveleged few. (And do not tell me that it isn't a privelege to have the sort of talent required to excel in pro soccer etc. Privelege, in my world, need not be a bad word, but do not pretend it doesn't exist. To excel at anything--to be the best--requires hard work, practice AND talent. Do not fall for the silly American concept that with a lot of hard work and passion ANYBODY can be Michael Jordan. We all know that is b.s.).

I only post this because I am sick and tired of these stupid slights on Canada and Canadians. Look more closely at what is going on before you claim that we are passionless, weak-willed, and lazy louts. It is simply not true. In terms of soccer in our country, there are many very real challenges, and there are many very real solutions, some of which have been implemented or are about to be introduced, and others we have yet to start working on. To vault us to greatness requires one large, intelligent vision but many small solutions, and a process to constantly improve the processes. As for the CSA, one of the areas where they seem to be lacking in vision is where the Mens National Team is considered. It may seem risky, certainly politically dangerous, but I think that all of our programs would benefit over the middle and long term if the CSA did their best to make sure we have a very competitive, strong and winning Men's Soccer team. This means sacrificing some funds for other programs. This is a bold move for Canadians to make, because as I suggested earlier in this post, we value fairness and "equality" over favourtism. Perhaps this was what you were getting at. [^]

Beaches, do I owe him a beer, too?

[Thrylos 7]

Ed..

For those who want more we stress skill,right attitude and play small sided games within our Academical Development program, practices twice a week with 4v4 - 6v6 no subs game time at U-8 & U-9, at U-10 we play 9 aside with a set team of 10 -12 players ..for those who just want a fun kick around Saturday morning and 1 practice a week with out too much commitment we provide Recreational. We try to provide players with what they want out of the game by providing 2 avenues.

[Thrylos 7]

Beaver...

No not everyone will become a Michael Jordan with hard work alone or talent alone ,now who is being silly..too bad you use a basketball player when we speak of soccer...

And yes those Americans with their silly concepts keep moving forward in the game while we keep falling behind.Since 1986 the first and only time we qualified what has come into fruition since then concerning development for our best and success at the National level?

I support the game and the excellence needed to compete on the world stage and reject the comment "Fairness for all is an important value in our country, and we often bristle at the idea of the masses supporting the elite, priveleged few."

I guess the masses should support mediocrity.

I guess all that fairness really translated into something constructive and successful for the last 20 years.

Yes we have challenges in Canada at all levels..

The next time we have a go at qualifying and I truly hope that we succeed please remember the players who earned the priviledge to represent Canada, who earned a spot on the world stage who worked hard in spite of the bristling masses who did not support excellence within the game,for it is that excellence that breeds success on the playing field and off.It is what will bring hope for next generation of players.

[Crockpot]

Hopefully we started some discussions and obviously there are some strong feelings on the subject of where the money comes from.

Yes there are flaws in the logic of charging $10 and the same argument comes up every time, Why should I pay for elite players to play ?

I have never suggested that there should be a levy from lesser players to subsidise the development of better players. I have suggested that we have a levy to buy a league.

I think it should be more like the Canadian health care system where we all pay the same but some of us get a lot more out of it. We all pay the same school taxes but some kids excel and some do not. Some just do not go to school. That's life. I just cannot see why anyone with an interest in the game is being willing to forgo 10 cups of coffee per year in an effort to make the game strong, that is of course unless there is no desire for the game in which case , why are we bothering?

However I do not consider that when I suggest that we should all pay $10. What we would be doing is paying for a league that ALL kids could aspire to play in. Never forget , we all start off with the same opportunity to excel, some do, some do not, for whatever reason.

All of us would benefit from the sport becoming higher profiled, Kids would become motivated, coaches would learn , Officials would have another level to referee at. You never know we may get some players for the World Cup Team.

Deep down I realise that this will never happen and we will meander on as we are, our youth development will be wasted except for those who go to University, and that in itself is a great benefit,On that subject perhaps we should worry that our fees during youth development may help to educate the best players, because if the lesser players did not pay there would be no teams and no development and no scholarships. Many many kids and adults play this wonderful game for the pure pleasure, and that will always be the case. Some of them could drag Canada from No 99 in the world, give them the chance !!

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by Thrylos 7

Beaver...

No not everyone will become a Michael Jordan with hard work alone or talent alone ,now who is being silly..too bad you use a basketball player when we speak of soccer...

And yes those Americans with their silly concepts keep moving forward in the game while we keep falling behind.Since 1986 the first and only time we qualified what has come into fruition since then concerning development for our best and success at the National level?

I support the game and the excellence needed to compete on the world stage and reject the comment "Fairness for all is an important value in our country, and we often bristle at the idea of the masses supporting the elite, priveleged few."

I guess the masses should support mediocrity.

I guess all that fairness really translated into something constructive and successful for the last 20 years.

Yes we have challenges in Canada at all levels..

The next time we have a go at qualifying and I truly hope that we succeed please remember the players who earned the priviledge to represent Canada, who earned a spot on the world stage who worked hard in spite of the bristling masses who did not support excellence within the game,for it is that excellence that breeds success on the playing field and off.It is what will bring hope for next generation of players.

No, what I am suggesting is that you grab a dose of reality before you start slamming Canadians for being passionless, lazy and mediocre-minded individuals. It is simply not true. Perhaps I was unclear--if that is the case, I apologize. Yes, Canadians value fairness, which sometimes means that the pursuit of excellence in other areas suffers. Sure, support excellence. That is a great idea--but most Canadians will say "At what expense?" Higher taxes? No thank you, they'll say. To push Canada to the fore of soccer's international heights? Sure, they'll say, but how much does it cost? And how does it affect my not-so-talented kid? I am not arguing for mediocrity--I am pissed off that you have slighted Canadians in a manner that is simply not fair, true or considered. You can take issue with the idea of fairness being a core value in our country, but to what end? It's true, and it isn't anything to be ashamed of. The challenge for soccer--or much everything else--is to rise to excellence without sacrificing core values. In fact, this is absolutely necessary.

Odd for you to say that you reject the notion that "Canadians value fairness etc" when in the earlier post you suggested that Canadians have no passion, work-ethic or willingness to act. What are you really trying to say?

[Guest Jeffery S.]

First reading this made me so irate that I could not respond. Canada is on a technical level of many other nations doing better internationally, and our physical preparation could be even a bit better in many cases, at least coming out of our teens. What killed us in the last round was lack of preparation. If Yallop did not feel the prep was right he should have raised a stink with his boss, as any worker must do. If he felt it was right then the blame goes to him for being wrong, as the first match showed. We were beaten by teams with less talent, playing on a lower level in terms of league play in many cases.

But getting back to skills. I have just enrolled by 5 year old in a school here in Barcelona, not one of the best, but a decent one. Senior team is close to promotion to Spanish 3rd division (4th tier).They train 75 minutes twice a week and play 5 on 5 in a futsal size field on Saturdays. Too young for official inter-club play. They never warm up or doing anything without the ball, in fact the first thing every kid does is get his own ball and dribbles around with it. Lots of passing and ball handling drills, even a bit boring. But they also have them working the ball behind the support foot, doing ups, heading, stepping on the ball and turning, what I would consider to be almost trick stuff for this age.

In games there are no long goal kicks, they have to pass out the ball to a defender, and no high balls are allowed, ball is always down if possible. For now all players on a team alternate as keeper, even little ones like mine. It is incredible to see them in their defensive zone passing the ball around to each other in short controls rather than hitting the ball forwards.

Discipline is excellent, all players shake all the coaches hands at the start and end of each practice, they put away equipment (cones, balls, etc). All dress the same, regulation practice wear, including socks. I am pretty happy about it, don't know though if this is much better than what kids get in Canada. In any case, what I do see the older kids getting, say from age 8-10 up, is a lot of tactical and positional play, movement off the ball, stuff like that. I think where Canada lags is in this area, how to move on the field effectively, ends up being learned too late.

For what it is worth though, if Yallop wants to play in a skilled way he has to ask for it from the players. The coach decides to use the abilities of his players to their limit or play in a different (physical, long ball, ultra-defensive with no ball control) manner. Here it is Yallop who has to require his players to use their skills to the max, and I am sure at this level, the senior nats, anyone could rise to the occasion.

[Thrylos 7]

Beaver...

Dose of reality ? Canada is 99..that is the reality.

At what cost do we hold back excellence to provide the National level? The other night when having a chat with Paul James one comment he made that stuck in my head is that ONLY 18 players in Canadian soccer have experienced the World Cup..WOW !

No Canadians as a whole are not passionless or lazy but when it comes to the game they need leaders with passion & intelligence in the CSA ,the provincial bodies, the grassroots level to forge ahead. Not the petty politics and fear that permeates provincial associations and the same people that are involved at the provincial level eventually move on to the CSA and the Kevin Pipes and other "suits" really are the ones that need a dose of reality. We put them there. What we need is a body of soccer/technical people not "suits" to advise the CSA and its provincial bodies in direction and planning.And we have loads of them here in Canada...and some have gone South.

Crockpot's idea above if read carefully is actually quite innovative and has merit.. We do not hold back recreational soccer or it's players in Canada but we do hold back that what is needed to provide the push for Canada to compete. We talk of club development, player development, a Canadian league that gives players somewhere to cut their teeth coming out of youth soccer and the funds needed to realize all of these these things and more. I do not know what involvement you have in the game or if you are just a concerned fan but I have seen & experienced the nonsense that does damage to the game at grassroot,provincial and National level. If Fairness means holding excellence back, holding progress back ,holding the game back from fulfilling it's potential at the higher level then we should be content being 99 or worse. Just look at little old Greece who has tremendous problems in it's domestic league and a laughing stock on the international level...not anymore. They have learned what it takes and what success & respect tastes like....they will not waste it. We had a taste in 1986 and a generation of players have come and gone,and at the 2000 Gold Cup and yet...I dont think many cared. In Greece the people and the rest of the soccer world support the game whether their kid made it or not. Here we get more excited about a U-9 game rather than support Canada vs. Guatamala in Vancouver...for a moment I thought I was in Guatamala not Vancouver considering how few Canadian fans that where there.

Thats all folks!

[The Beaver]

Man, we are on the same page for the most part. And yes, my experiences at various levels of soccer in BC mirror what you've seen, and I feel frustrated, too. My beef with you was the unnecessary and inaccurate generalizations you made of Canadians. I will contend, however, that it is both necessary and vital we hold our values of fairness, among others, as we pursue excellence. And, from what you've written here, I see now that you agree.

Cheers, mate.