Jump to content

FIFA World Player of the Year


juaninho

Recommended Posts

Well, after months of prognostication, whittling, and heated discussions over business luncheons, the FIFA aparatchiks have deemed the fellow three worthy for your consideration for FIFA world player of the year:

Thierry Henry -Arsenal

Ronaldinho - Barcelona

Andrei Shevchenko - AC Milan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ronaldhino should be first. No player has had a greater impact on their teams, national or club, this year. He is responsible for Barcelona's incredible turnaround since the new year. He is an all-around midfielder with great service to his teamates. He probably had some votes taken from him in the prior round as he didn't go to the Copa America (where Adriano had a great tournament, which is why Adriano must have a lot of votes from South America, along with the fact that he is the best thing about an indifferent Inter...we don't know, as they don't announce the vote numbers), and it may be enough to prevent him from being given the awrd this time.

Shevchenko's Milan (as shown on Wednesday) is still an awesome club without him (Milan to me are the true galacticos given their strength in all positions). I thnk that Shevchenko is a better pure goalscorer on the year overall than Henry, especially considering his national team appearances (Henry was definitely invisible at the Euros and spotty at the WCQ's).

I think there is a consensus that the proper top three have been chosen here (with Adriano, I would quietly suggest, having been a strong fourth). Given the political aspects of the voting, Henry may be given the award for the wrong reason: he came second in 2003 to Zidane when he should have won. I am very glad that the award isn't unthinkingly given to a Real "galactico" again, as none of them deserved it over the year.

041020211740.ga2oseti0b.jpggoofhead02.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by Jarrek

Better what season ? Doesn't the season start in September?

Well, the award is for January - December.

The award has to go to Ronaldinho. I haven't crunched the numbers yet but off the top of my head I would guess that Barca are about 15 points better than the second-best Spanish team in 2004. And Ronaldinho is the main reason why (remember Barca were consistently the third-fifth best team in Spain for several years until Ronaldinho joined them). Being top scorer in a league where Roma were title contenders is just not enough. Sheva had to do something in Euro 2004 (not his fault, i know) or win the Champions League to get this award.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Well, the award is for January - December.

The award has to go to Ronaldinho. I haven't crunched the numbers yet but off the top of my head I would guess that Barca are about 15 points better than the second-best Spanish team in 2004. And Ronaldinho is the main reason why (remember Barca were consistently the third-fifth best team in Spain for several years until Ronaldinho joined them). Being top scorer in a league where Roma were title contenders is just not enough. Sheva had to do something in Euro 2004 (not his fault, i know) or win the Champions League to get this award.

I agree that Ronaldinho has helped Barca a lot, there's no denying that. Barca is currently 7 points clear in La Liga.

As far as Shevchenko goes, being top scorer in a league that is known for its defensive attributes is no easy task. Shevchenko is a multi purpose player, and can fill in a variety of roles very well, both as a forward and a midfielder. He's been averaging over 20 goals per season during the past 5 years in Serie A, and has scored over 134 goals in total for AC Milan.

Shevchenko has scored 55% of AC Milan's goals this season. That's a rather pretty heavy reliance on him, don't you think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think it will go to Shevcenko. Good goal scorer, but seems to be offside alot. It's a two man race between Ronaldinho and Thierry Henry.

Ronaldinho helped turn a Barca side around last year (oh yes, Davids helped as well). He is a much more versatile player then Shevcenko and has a larger array of skills then Shevcenko. As well, an excellent unselfish team player who plays the game with the zeal and wonder of a 9 year-old child.

As for Henry, certainly Arsenal going undefeated last year helps and he is a great goal scorer/provider, but I am afraid that the lack of an Arsenal double may hinder his chances.

AC got some questionable calls for them last year to 'help' them win the Scudetto. I seem to recall a few matches in which ludicrous amounts of injury time were added on to give the rossoneri a chance to equalise. I think one of the questionable matches had like 8 minutes of injury time added. 8 minutes! There must have been a death on the field to justify that much added time.

Henry or Ronaldinho to win. But i agree with beachesl, if it does go to Henry, it will be because he was shut out when Zidane won it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Shevchenko should win the award, just slightly ahead of Ronaldinho. Adriano probably should have been the third nominee ahead of Henry, but at least they didn't have any Real players.

If you think that Ronaldinho is important to Barcelona's success (don't get me wrong, I know he is), Shevchenko is equally important to the success of Milan. Milan has had problems scoring all year long when Shevchenko has been out of the line up (they finally broke out of this jinx with the 4-0 Champions League win last week). Plus, he's not just a goal poacher, he can set up goals as well.

All you Serie A haters should sit down and watch a Milan game with Shevchenko in the line up so you can see what I mean.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If this is a most valuable player to his team award then Ronaldinho should win. If this is purely a best player of 2004 award then Shevchenko. How about how many votes does the English have then Henry . Me I think they missed Roy Mckaay over Henry but then what do I know . Or what Morientas did for Monaco last year man that was awesome get outta Real bud........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

I agree that Ronaldinho has helped Barca a lot, there's no denying that. Barca is currently 7 points clear in La Liga.

I meant since January (the time-frame that this award is based on) Barcelona is probably about 15 points better than the #2 team in Spain (which would probably be Valencia). And 20-25 points better than Real Madrid.

And I think serie A defense is overrated just a bit. Outside of Juventus, is there any other solid defensive team that Sheva has to go up against in Italy?

I think Sheva has been the best forward in the world the past 2-3 months, but we can't ignore the first 9 months of this year. During that time Henry, Morientes and Ronaldinho were all clearly better. Of course Henry and Morientes have done nothing lately. Voters tend to have short memories so that kills/killed the chances of those two.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well Massive Attack, I don't know if this FIFA Player of the Year Award is supposed to be a validation of a League's echelon status, but i guess that is one of the offshoots.

Are Shevcenko knockers essentially Serie A haters? Does the fact that a representative who plys his trade in Spain, in addition to the past Real Madrid monopoly on this award validate that the Spanish League is best? Is the inclusion of Henry and not Adriano an attempt to attain a diversity of league representation?

Interesting questions i think.

I'll answer the first.

Yes, Shevchenko is a good goal scorer, but I think that his success last year was aided by the addition of one rather scatoligically named brazilian, Kaka. With Kaka in the team, Shevchenko got better service, and hence scored more goals. I don't see Shevchenko as this great provider though. It seems that Shevchenko is perpetually flirting with off-side calls, perhaps a slight knock against his skill. I mean, you can't possibly be the most skilled player if you have to rely on getting the better of marginal off-side calls right?

Ronaldinho is more integral to his team and a more complete player i think. The kid can do just about everything, score goals in numerous ways, pass exceptionally well, beat defenders one-on-one, resulting in a break down of defence, and he defends as well. A wonderful little bundle of a team player. I don't think Shevchenko does the same. Can Shevchenko make other teammates better through his play? He makes his team better, but i don't think he has the same impact on his teammates. So, i am basing my evaluation on how Ronaldinho is AND what he does for his team and teammates. Shevchenko isn't as skilled nor the all around team player that Ronaldinho is. And yes, I can say this without being a Serie A hater.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I might be a little biased but I think Sheva wins this hands down. He is unfortunately hurt by the fact that Ukraine has in the past failed to play up to it's talent level. This year has been a different story with Sheva being the best player on a Ukrainian team leading the toughest qualifying group. Couple that with Sheva being arguably Serie A's best player of the last year and a half -- from about March 2003 till present, and this should be an easy victory.

Sheva deserves this award. I think this is one year where the choice is obvious.

I would add that for a forward from a defensive league like Serie A to put up the numbers Sheva has over 5 plus years is a very special achievement. Lest we forget that Henry failed in Italy and Ronaldinho plays in a league which is very offensive minded. Sheva would have scored 30 at least once in the Premiership.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by juaninho

I mean, you can't possibly be the most skilled player if you have to rely on getting the better of marginal off-side calls right?

But the award is not supposed to be for the most-skilled player. It is supposed to be for the player with the best achievement in 2004.

quote:Originally posted by juaninho

AC got some questionable calls for them last year to 'help' them win the Scudetto.

I do think that Milan (and Juventus) get more than their share of favourable calls, but such calls were not needed for Milan to win the championship in 2003/2004. They were simply far and away the best team in Serie A. There was nothing controversial about their victory, nor margin of victory.

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Outside of Juventus, is there any other solid defensive team that Sheva has to go up against in Italy?

Since we're also considering the second half of the 2003/2004 season, I would say Roma, Inter, Lazio, Chievo and Udinese (I don't know the split between 2003 and 2004, but each of these teams gave up 40 or fewer goals over the whole season, which was better than Juventus).

quote:Originally posted by juaninho

Is the inclusion of Henry and not Adriano an attempt to attain a diversity of league representation?

No. FIFA nominated 35 names and all national team coaches voted on them. Henry, Ronaldinho and Shevchenko were the top three vote-getters. The winner is already known.

I think FIFA's nomination of 35 names was a good move. In the past we've seen some really ridiculous votes when the field was open to every player in the world. However, I still think the award is a farce because many of the voters clearly don't watch much world soccer. Not to mention the fact that the winners are always offensive stars -- what about defenders and goalkeepers (only two, Maldini and Kahn (I don't count Roberto Carlos), have ever placed in the top three)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by DJT

But the award is not supposed to be for the most-skilled player. It is supposed to be for the player with the best achievement in 2004.

League goals from soccernet.com 2003-2004

9 Gaucho Ronaldinho (Barcelona) 15

1 Andriy Shevchenko (AC Milan) 24

1 Thierry Henry (Arsenal) 30

Based on league "achievement" DJT, Henry should win.

But This really depends on how achievement should be qualified. Is it strictly goal scoring? Is it impact upon the team? Is it country representation as well? Is it the impact upon the team PLUS impact upon your team mates PLUS how the team has performed? If you take this last question as criteria, Ronaldinho should win because he scored the most goals for his team, and more importantly transformed a middling Barca side into a contender.

But let's do a little thought experiment. Place Shevcenko in a middling Barca side at the beginning of 2003-2004. Would he have had the same impact as Ronaldinho? It is hard to say what exactly would happen, but seeing as strikers take some time to adapt to the service of their new team mates, I don't think he'd have the same impact.

And yes, skill IS important. Look at Nistlerooy's record in the Champion's League - the man's a goal scoring animal. As well, he came second to Henry in Premiership scoring - so in a sense his level of achievement is similar to Henry. But you can ask yourself aloud, why isn't he in the running over Henry? I think it is because it is the manner in which he scores, a box poacher of sorts, will not dart his way or run through a maze of defenders like Henry or Ronaldinho can. So skill IS important to achievement, you can choose to ignore it if you like, but by doing so you miss an integral aspect of how the player plays the game. More skill = more respect by defenders = a break down of defense shape = more opportunities for team mates.

Milan being far and away the best last season 2003-2004 DJT? Which Serie A were you watching?

Roma was in the thick of it for almost the whole season 2003-2004! So if you were to subtract the questionable calls from Milan's favor, it would be a toss-up as to whom the Scudetto should have been awarded to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, Serie A would have played 4 less games than the EPL last year. Plus, Shevchenko was a prolific goal scorer as soon as he joined the Serie A. He scored 24 goals his first Serie A season.

I think you also need to take national team duty into account, this is why Shevchenko wins the award. I think Shevcheko's impact on Ukraine is greater than Ronaldinho's impact on Barca. He is the leader of a team of nobodies (Ukraine) in a World Cup qualifying group with 3 other strong teams: Denmark (who always seem to be at the World Cup), Turkey (one of the stronger countries in Europe the last few years) and Greece (Euro 2004 winners). Here are the standings (Ukraine is in Group 2):

http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/t/group/index.html?zone=eur

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now we're looking at goals scored? In that case Washington of CA Paranense in Brasil beats all 3 players easily! Anyway, Ronaldinho is not even a striker.

If Ukraine qualifies for the WC 2006 as group winners that could go on Shevchenko's resume for his 2005 FIFA POY bid. I don't think leading a group at this early stage in WCQ should count for much. There's a loooooong way to go especially in that wide-open group.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by juaninho

And yes, skill IS important. [snip] I think it is because it is the manner in which he scores, a box poacher of sorts, will not dart his way or run through a maze of defenders like Henry or Ronaldinho can.

If this is what you mean by "skill" then we are in agreement. I did not understand it this way at first.

But then along these same lines we need to consider penalty kicks. If poaching is considered "lower" than darting and running through a maze of defenders, then scoring on a PK has to be considered "lower" than poaching. Shevchenko scores fewer of his goals on PKs compared to Henry and Ronaldinho (see the stats below).

quote:League goals from soccernet.com 2003-2004

9 Gaucho Ronaldinho (Barcelona) 15

1 Andriy Shevchenko (AC Milan) 24

1 Thierry Henry (Arsenal) 30

These are not the correct numbers to look at because they include August-December 2003 and ignore August-present 2004 (see the correct stats below).

quote:But This really depends on how achievement should be qualified. Is it strictly goal scoring? Is it impact upon the team? Is it country representation as well? Is it the impact upon the team PLUS impact upon your team mates PLUS how the team has performed?
All of the above, and more. Country representation absolutely must be taken into consideration, by definition of the award (in fact, FIFA nominated several players (eg. Theodoros Zagorakis) based purely on their Euro 2004 play). International club competition is also being ignored in the discussion here, but that counts as well.

So here are the stats I put together. The numbers followed by a "P" are official matches played by the team (not necessarily by the player) in 2004 up to and including last weekend, counting the Italian Supercup under "Cup" but excluding the English League Cup and Copa America.

     
Jan-May Aug-present Total 2004
==============================================================

Henry League 19P 18G(4PK) 15P 11G(0PK) 34P 29G(4PK)
Cup 5P 3G(0PK) 0P 0G(0PK) 5P 3G(0PK)
CL 4P 2G(0PK) 5G 3G(1PK) 9P 5G(1PK)
France 8P 2G(0PK)

Ronaldinho League 21P 10G(2PK) 13P 2G(2PK) 34P 12G(4PK)
Cup 4P 1G(1PK) 0P 0G(0PK) 4P 1G(1PK)
UC/CL 2P 0G(0PK) 5P 2G(1PK) 7P 2G(1PK)
Brazil 7P 1G(1PK)

Shevchenko League 20P 12G(1PK) 13P 9G(1PK) 33P 21G(2PK)
Cup 4P 0G(0PK) 2P 3G(0PK) 6P 3G(0PK)
CL 4P 3G(0PK) 5P 3G(0PK) 9P 6G(0PK)
Ukraine 5P 4G(0PK)[/code]

quote:Milan being far and away the best last season 2003-2004 DJT? Which Serie A were you watching?

Roma was in the thick of it for almost the whole season 2003-2004! So if you were to subtract the questionable calls from Milan's favor, it would be a toss-up as to whom the Scudetto should have been awarded to.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. While Roma were hanging around mathematically until near the end, I never felt that they were really in it on the field based on how the two teams were playing. Plus, Milan beat Roma four times (twice each in the league and cup) within the last four months of the season and I don't recall anything controversial about those wins (beyond idiotic Roma "fans" causing trouble).

quote:[i]Originally posted by amacpher[/i]

Now we're looking at goals scored?

Well of course we have to [i]look[/i] at goals scored. I mean, it's obviously a contributing factor when considering offensive-minded players. The key is to not base your decision entirely on goals scored, but I don't think anyone is doing that.

quote:[i]Originally posted by canso[/i]

Don't discount the political effects of the situation in Ukraine right now. Could sway the vote for Shevchenko, especially with the European voters.

No, because the voting has already taken place. This "stringing along" by naming the top three is just FIFA's way of hyping things up. And evidently it's working.

By the way, I don't know who should win, nor do I really care, because, as I said before, I think the whole thing is a farce. Despite what it may have looked like, I wasn't arguing in favour of anyone. Why the heck did I spend so much time on this? [B)]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by Anatolioli

I might be a little biased but I think Sheva wins this hands down. He is unfortunately hurt by the fact that Ukraine has in the past failed to play up to it's talent level. This year has been a different story with Sheva being the best player on a Ukrainian team leading the toughest qualifying group. Couple that with Sheva being arguably Serie A's best player of the last year and a half -- from about March 2003 till present, and this should be an easy victory.

Sheva deserves this award. I think this is one year where the choice is obvious.

I would add that for a forward from a defensive league like Serie A to put up the numbers Sheva has over 5 plus years is a very special achievement. Lest we forget that Henry failed in Italy and Ronaldinho plays in a league which is very offensive minded. Sheva would have scored 30 at least once in the Premiership.

Henry "failed" in Italy because he was not used correctly. Wenger picked him up and revitalized his career by putting him where he belongs - up front. And, I seem to remember Henry getting a hat-trick in a 5 - 2 routing of Inter Milan last year in the Champions league. Not bad considering he was playing against a top three team that is so defensive minded. I love watching Henry get the ball 30 yards out and do things that just shouldn't be done. Pure beauty.

Anyway, to be honest, just flip a three sided coin. I won't complain if any three of these guys win. I'm a little surprised Deco, or Nedved weren't even mentioned. They could have been in the mix considering their balanced performance in Cups, League, and Euro.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...