Check out the Portuguese Premier League Attendance

[Winnipeg Fury]

Compared to our Canadian A-league attendances, we don't look that bad. Other Euro Leagues have even worse crowds.

Portuguese Premier League summaries

LISBON, Nov 28 (Reuters) - Summaries of Portuguese Premier

League soccer matches:

Rio Ave 4

Nacional Madeira 1

Attendance: 1,500

- - - -

Estoril-Praia 0

Vitoria Guimaraes 1

Att: 500

- - - -

Penafiel 3

Academica 1

Att: 2,500

- - - -

Maritimo 1

Gil Vicente 1

Att: 4,000

- - - -

Uniao Leiria 1

Benfica 0

Att: 15,300

- - - -

Sporting 4

Moreirense 1

Att: 22,953

- - - -

Belenenses 1

Braga 2

Att: 1,500

- - - -

Boavista 3

Beira-Mar 0

Att: 8,000

[Winnipeg Fury]

Here's last weeks Greek First Division crowds:

Kerkira AO - SCODA Xanthi 3-0 Att 1,005

Ergotelis - AEK 0-1 Att 18,850

Apollon Kalamaria - Iraklis 1-3 Att 1,268

Aris - Ionikos 0-2 Att 5,638

Chalkidona - PAOK 2-0 Att 537

Aegaleo - Panionios 0-0 Att 773

Olympiakos - OFI 3-0 Att 25,316

Panathinaikos - Kallithea 1-0 Att 9,007

[CanadianSoccerFan]

Just proves that if Canada had population density and teams could be a few hours drive away from each game then we could have a successful national league without breaking a sweat. We need so much more attendance revenue here just to offset travel costs.

[hottoddy7]

How do these squads not lose their shirts? Or do they?

[Cheeta]

The same way AHL teams don't. The bigger clubs in some instances cover portions of, or all of the salaries of some of their player properties, or development players.

In England and Scotland the Premierships subsidise the lower division teams with revenue sharing. Quite a bit it might be added at some levels when you're getting into relative terms. It's surprising how much it helps when 10-20% of your budget isn't allocated to covering league payments (running the league offices, paying officials, so-on so-forth) when you're on a non-Premiership budget.

That being said the Premierships still keep the lion's share to themselves. Under the latest FA broadcast agreements the difference between the lowest paid Premiership club, and the best paid 1st division club is something like 20 million pounds. (Nothing nearly like that in Scotland but since last seasons mutiny by the non-Old Firm clubs the cash is spread around much more evenly. Something like 2 millions per club at the higher end).

You think Fulham or Norwich are going to generate 20 million pounds of gate revenue this entire season? Not bloody likely. More like 8-10 million pound. They'll get 2 to 3 times that gate revenue from the league TV contracts AND they can cut their own broadcast deals or inovate their own revenue generating schemes within certain boundrys.

Still, some clubs most certainly are some rich man's toy I'm sure.

[An Observer]

I think its a combination of factors for why these leagues can survive:

1. Very low travel costs (including no hotel fees as there is no need to stay overnight)

2. Large TV contracts and sponsorship deals that bring in revenue for smaller clubs

3. Player loans and subsidies from the bigger teams to the lower teams that definitely helps the small sides fiscally (as they generally don't pick up the whole salary on a loan)

4. Transfer fees from the big clubs to the small clubs that can really help

5. Longer season so whilst crowds are small, the total crowds for the year are likely larger than A-league as they play more games. Through in some derbys, cup games and matches against the top clubs which will generally bring in big gates, and this can help big time especially if the team has a good cup run

6. Some leagues have gate sharing which obviously helps the small sides

In Canada, the problem is overcoming the travel costs, getting no revenue from TV, having no big teams that could help the smaller ones in terms loans, or gate sharing, and finally, no history of tranfer fees (which would likely continue for a long time until foreign clubs get used to paying big bucks for unproven Canadian players that come straight from Canada)

[argh1]

I don't know what the sports are that Portugal or Greece call national sports but c'mon those figures are awful. Our independant league baseball teams draw more than some of those figures to say nothing about that curling cup thing that had 4000 for every draw. I don't understand , what gives? My local senior league baseball team draws as much as some figures.....low end that is.....(season ticket holder , love live baseball sun brews and chat, oops soccer board)

[G-Man]

The only reason to own a team anywhere is to lose money in order to get a tax write-off or you're so rich-like Lomar Hunt with the MLS that it simply doesn't matter.Hahaha look at that I lost 250 million in 10 years..hahahaha. I bet Chelsea won't breal even .

People who own Soccer teams in Canada aren't rich enough to lose the kind of money that the teams they own lose.

We need to find a Canadian Hunt. Terry Matthews? maybe?

[G-Man]

The only reason to own a team anywhere is to lose money in order to get a tax write-off or you're so rich-like Lomar Hunt with the MLS that it simply doesn't matter.Hahaha look at that I lost 250 million in 10 years..hahahaha. I bet Chelsea won't breal even .

People who own Soccer teams in Canada aren't rich enough to lose the kind of money that the teams they own lose.

We need to find a Canadian Hunt. Terry Matthews? maybe?

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by An Observer

I think its a combination of factors for why these leagues can survive:

1. Very low travel costs (including no hotel fees as there is no need to stay overnight)

2. Large TV contracts and sponsorship deals that bring in revenue for smaller clubs

3. Player loans and subsidies from the bigger teams to the lower teams that definitely helps the small sides fiscally (as they generally don't pick up the whole salary on a loan)

4. Transfer fees from the big clubs to the small clubs that can really help

5. Longer season so whilst crowds are small, the total crowds for the year are likely larger than A-league as they play more games. Through in some derbys, cup games and matches against the top clubs which will generally bring in big gates, and this can help big time especially if the team has a good cup run

6. Some leagues have gate sharing which obviously helps the small sides

In Canada, the problem is overcoming the travel costs, getting no revenue from TV, having no big teams that could help the smaller ones in terms loans, or gate sharing, and finally, no history of tranfer fees (which would likely continue for a long time until foreign clubs get used to paying big bucks for unproven Canadian players that come straight from Canada)

I believe the TO Lynx stated that they made approximately $200,000 in transfer fees to Europe this past season. That's probably 25% of their operating budget, which is very significant.

[Kelly]

As reported earlier by the Toronto Star this fall...

The Lynx had an operating budget of 380,000 dollars for everything. So if the 200,000 transfer income is true- thats more than half their budget.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

I believe the TO Lynx stated that they made approximately $200,000 in transfer fees to Europe this past season. That's probably 25% of their operating budget, which is very significant.

I remember reading an article on this board following Serioux's sale to Millwall stating that they only had to cough up 5 grand

[Michael Crampton]

quote:Originally posted by CanadianSoccerFan

I remember reading an article on this board following Serioux's sale to Millwall stating that they only had to cough up 5 grand

I think that was just the initial fee. There had to be clauses in there about number of appearances and so forth. I haven't totally been keeping up with Millwall but it seems like Adrian hasn't been getting as regular a spot as Josh though. I'd be very, very surprised if all the Lynx got was 5 grand in the end though. Hardly seems even worth the trouble of entering negotiations.

Mike.

[Winnipeg Fury]

The Lynx may also get a substantial fee if and when Millwall transfer Serioux (as is probably the case with all the players they have transferred).

[Elias]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

People who own Soccer teams in Canada aren't rich enough to lose the kind of money that the teams they own lose.

This is the exact problem with Canuck soccer. Most owners are long on fantasies, and short on cash. And the ones who do have a ton of cash (like Saputo - Impact previous owner, who's family is in the top 20 or something of richest Canadians) won't spend the cash.

To be fair, I'm sure he's spent a lot of money. But just not enough to take it to the next level (like MLS at McGill with grass).

As for Greece, something like 20 of the 32 teams in the 1st and 2nd division are in the greater Athens area. There's just too much soccer. Besides, the lower half of the Greek first division is like the equivilant of the East Coast Hockey League, to be generous.

And most importantly from the financial side, in Greece (as in many parts of Europe), they don't use the General Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP), they use the MMAP (Mickey Mouse Accounting Principles). AEK Athens (one of the big 3 clubs) was just last week saved from bankruptcy after 95% of it's debt was written off. It now owes only approx. 16 million Euros (about C$21 million). You do the math on how much was written off. I'll try and find a link to a story in English.

And two weeks ago, Aris Salonika, one of the bottom clubs, had most of it's debt written off as well. And, yeah there's more, I don't remember the exact details, but about 4-5 years ago, I can't remember if it was basketball or soccer, but the whole league had like hundreds of millions written off in mostly back-taxes that were owed to the government (income tax, sales tax, property tax, health tax, etc.) and for rent that was owed on publicly-owned stadiums.

Here there was an uproar if teams got a penny from Pro Line, never mind the rebellion that almost started over the tax write offs or whatever that was a couple years ago.