The Shinola has hit the fan

[Guest Ed]

Check out Neil Davidson's article on the CSA and it's miniscule budget for the CMNT.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/2004/11/23/727792-cp.html

[Gordon]

That is just shameful. What a joke.

[beachesl]

Great article, Davidson again comes up with the goods and asks the right questions! I wonder who leaked the budget to him, the CSA usually guards it with their life. By "association membership" voting on the 5th of December, I assume he is referring to the CSA Board. The "members" are the provincial associations and associate boards.

[Grizzly]

Finally something comes out about this issue. Good on DeVos and Onstad for speaking out and for Davidson for writing the article. As much as I am in favour of equality the male-female ration is ridiculous. Women's soccer is still an amateur sport with far fewer expenses and far less prominence than men's soccer. How many of our female players need to be flown in from Europe to play games?

[MikeD]

10 to 12 matches is a huge improvement over the recent past. 3 to 6 of those will be Gold Cup matches, which means another 6 friendlies or so. Not bad.

[Winnipeg Fury]

Adding to the players criticism of Pipe/CSA is the fact that the CSA is doing zero to facilitate a national league or national cup.

It sounds to me like the CSA is just a high-end travel agency with a bloated bureaurcracy, and doing a crap job at that.

The players are finally saying what the fans have been saying for years. Time for a major overhaul of the CSA !

[Rodway]

Just look at all that Jonathan Deguzman will be leaving behind if he chooses to play for Holland. Afther reading all that could you really blame the kid for choosing career advancement over country ties.

[Daniel]

I am officially disgusted.

[Paddy]

"Pipe defends the budget, saying it is a rebuilding year and noting costs have come down."

Every year is apparently a rebuilding year; when oh when will construction be completed.

It’s funny how an article like this comes out and now the sentiment is against the CSA (inasmuch as no one in this post is defending the CSA Eso I am not saying that any of you were defending them previously). It’s amazing though how many people have been shouted down recently for blaming the CSA and then this comes out. Perhaps next week we’ll find out that Yallop really isn’t that good of a coach and that Onstad actually can’t play goal.

[torontosupport]

I want an armed revolution.

[massimo]

Any COO or CEO needs to be constantly looking for business partners or sponsors. He needs to be out there, day in day out looking for new possibilities. Creating partnerships with anyone with money and interest in the sport. By the looks of this budget, absolutely anyone will do!

After reading this article it seems like all Pipe is doing is defending the budget he has in place, as if he is on auto-pilot. He seems to have no drive, no back-up plan. Just, 'this is a time for rebuilding', like it took a genuis to come up with that band-aid. We need solutions not workarounds!

We need people in the CSA to be knocking on every door that will give an ear to listen, that partnering up with the CSA is to everyone's benefit. As everyone knows, the Men's Senior World Cup is the biggest sporting event in the world! How hard to get sponors for that??

Sorry but that is no COO. Please step down and do everyone a favour.

[massimo]

quote:Originally posted by Paddy

"Pipe defends the budget, saying it is a rebuilding year and noting costs have come down."

Every year is apparently a rebuilding year; when oh when will construction be completed.

It’s funny how an article like this comes out and now the sentiment is against the CSA (inasmuch as no one in this post is defending the CSA Eso I am not saying that any of you were defending them previously). It’s amazing though how many people have been shouted down recently for blaming the CSA and then this come out. Perhaps next week we’ll find out that Yallop really isn’t that good of a coach and that Onstad actually can’t play goal.

Because now after reading this article, everything becomes black and white, the grey area does not exist anymore. To me anyway!

[Gian-Luca]

We've known that the men's programme funding was cut and the women's increased (comparatively) in the CSA budget since Holger left, so this article doesn't really surprise me at all -it's just providing some specifics. Having said that, how the men's team can only get $90,000 more than the women in a year where the men have a Gold Cup tournament and the women don't have anything of importance is quite beyond me. The Gold Cup is worth that little? Obviously not, though maybe to the powers that be at the CSA it is.

Interesting to note that De Vos & Onstad are in favour of Andy Sharpe but say that changes have to come at the top. So I guess there is more than one top at the CSA, and I can guess who constitutes the other one. And I have little faith that Deloitte & Touche will accomplish much for the CSA.

One thing's for sure, I don't ever want to hear the women's player led by Charmaine Hooper asking for more money to beat Haiti 11-0 ever again after reading this article.

[Andrew W]

This article is an absolute must read.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Paddy

[br

It’s funny how an article like this comes out and now the sentiment is against the CSA (inasmuch as no one in this post is defending the CSA Eso I am not saying that any of you were defending them previously). It’s amazing though how many people have been shouted down recently for blaming the CSA and then this come out.

From my recollection the sentiment on this board has almost always been anti-CSA, barring the odd exception of when they do things right like getting the 2007 WYC.

It depends on what the CSA is being blamed for. People who blame them for not funding an entire top-flight Canadian league by themselves or critcize them for helping to get a soccer-specific stadium made for Toronto deserved to be shouted down, IMO. People that blame the CSA for our failure to qualify for the World Cup due to inapppropriate funding, planning and organization (and as De Vos points out, asking-for-a-loss moves like hosting games in Vancouver in the middle of the week with largely Euro-based players) are perfectly entitled - and I'd say largely correct - in doing so.

[kelownaguy]

I agree 100% Gianluca with what you just wrote,,,well said.

[kelownaguy]

Onstad and Devos bring up the same points many of us here have been saying all along,,, the lack of prep games before the first qualifiers just absolutely killed us , and as Devos states it ties Frank's hands because he is able to do nothing but get 3 mickey mouse preparation games (Belize, Belize, San Jose ) in for the actual national team since he took over as coach. I agree with Onstad when he states the team got better and better as they played more games for Frank but had we been able to arrange 3 or 4 real friendlies before qualifying whether they were played here or in Europe, we would have been so much better off....I really hope something can be done to make changes at the top of the CSA hiearchy...

[Paddy]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

It depends on what the CSA is being blamed for...People that blame the CSA for our failure to qualify for the World Cup due to inapppropriate funding, planning and organization (and as De Vos points out, asking-for-a-loss moves like hosting games in Vancouver in the middle of the week with largely Euro-based players) are perfectly entitled - and I'd say largely correct - in doing so.

That is all I am referring to, though I'd say 100% correct.

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by kelownaguy

Devos states it ties Frank's hands because he is able to do nothing but get 3 mickey mouse preparation games (Belize, Belize, San Jose ) in for the actual national team since he took over as coach.

Just like to mention the Wales game (then again, I was there and our team BLEW so I'm not sure we showed up [)]).

[kelownaguy]

Your right , that was basically his first game as coach with the real team assembled (yes even Brennan played!!)not including the Barbados match which was more of a B team roster. I didn't think a 1-0 loss in Wales to a very solid Wales club was too bad of a result for getting the boys together for the first time with a new coach, they did have a few opportunities to draw that game. It was certainly a better result then the two previous games under Colin Miller where we lost 5-1 to Czechs and 3-0 to Ireland.

[argh1]

Okay say you run a national program covering all ages and sexes (female registration I believe is in the high 40% area) and you have X dollars to allocate to each national team plus other areas of the soccer landscape.( God ......which-ever one you chose....help me . I'm defending the CSA )

You know some portion of your membership is gonna be pissed off at ya.

If we sink 60% into MNT then "why aren't you helping the youngin's " or "girls pay almost half the dues" .

What the MNT team really needs is a seperate corporate sponsor to finance it's efforts with-out hurting the age groups or girls teams .

I will now go hide as I can't believe I defended the CSA .......

EDIT:

Wattdya say get a drive goin' to raise a million or so ...so we can have the Men's National Senior Soccer Team presented by THE VOYAGEURS.

[Cheeta]

Oh, boy. Do I have a couple of thoughts.

Having just been eliminated from WCQ, and having gone largely unnoticed in doing so despite the complete lack of competition from hockey on TV, it's hard for the players to come off very well complaining about the same old stuff and directing blame for the WCQ failure to people who never touched the field for 1 second during any of our 6 matchs and still look very creditable doing so. At least in my opinion.

Especially considering the players quoted aren't also attacking the only off field player who had the most direct influence on our failed WCQ campain (Yallop) and the man who put him there (Sharpe). Think maybe Sharpe's brilliant plan to save our Germany2006 campain turned into complete ****e, JDV? Is it possible the so-called player mutiny you led was ill timed, poorly thought out, and I'd say given the current evidence, odviously of no good use whatsoever? Enjoyed your Frankie fun camps leading up to the Group phase did you? Weren't much fun later on were they?

Wonder what Brennan thinks of all this? Or Klukowski. Or Lars. Or maybe even FA. Just for fun, you know?

Wonder what Ruis and Wanchope would make of it? Their managers found systems that allowed them to score plenty. Radz. didn't net one. But Yallop's man DDR got his share. Guess that was a funding issue.

But I'm sliding off Davidson's target. It's still a good articule and an interesting read.

But I don't think it reflects very well on the football community within Canada. The CSA is a political creature who's priority role isn't now, nor has it ever been, competitive adult football such as the WC and Gold Cup.

If it were, then this would be reflected in the provincial associations who in turn wouldn't keep re-electing Pipe and his vision. Funny thing about political creatures like the CSA, they're essentialy democracys, and in a democracy you get the goverment you deserve. The Yanks get Bush. We get Pipe.

Wrote it before, and I'll write it again. Sharpe's after Pipe's job. And it sounds like he's going to try to use a grassroots mutiny (this time) to get it. A call to arms by Sharpe to the rank and file who fund the provincial associations and the CSA, amplified through the media and a few mouthy players. Nice. Don't know that it'll work, but a clever play.

Sharpe's a fox. Couldn't guess if we'd get a better CSA under his leadership, but I know what we've gotten under Pipe so that leaves just one further question.

Where's the mob forming and do I bring a torch or a pitchfork?

[DoyleG]

Bring a noose instead.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by argh1

Okay say you run a national program covering all ages and sexes (female registration I believe is in the high 40% area) and you have X dollars to allocate to each national team plus other areas of the soccer landscape.( God ......which-ever one you chose....help me . I'm defending the CSA )

You know some portion of your membership is gonna be pissed off at ya.

If we sink 60% into MNT then "why aren't you helping the youngin's " or "girls pay almost half the dues" .

What the MNT team really needs is a seperate corporate sponsor to finance it's efforts with-out hurting the age groups or girls teams .

I will now go hide as I can't believe I defended the CSA .......

EDIT:

Wattdya say get a drive goin' to raise a million or so ...so we can have the Men's National Senior Soccer Team presented by THE VOYAGEURS.

You are right about the need for increased national sponsorship, however the notion of equality does not have to suffer. You simply base it on cycles. The Women's World Cup and the Men's World Cup are on differnet cycles. So you allocated your money based on Cycles. Say you mandate that 50% of all "program" funding goes to the senior sides, 25 to the U-19/U-20 programs, and the rest to all of the other age groups. Then you tweak the funding to reflect which gender is in a world cup cycle. You fund the women disproportionately according to their qualifying year and the World Cup and the men during their qualifying year(s) and the World Cup. You know if you make it to the World Cup there will be "new" dollars coming in. So, The Canadian Men's team gets 66% of the Senior team dollars in 2004 & 2005, while the women get the higer portion in their world cup qaulifying cycle. If a team falls by the wayside, then the anticipated funding can be reallocated for the following year. Because the men's team has a far more onerous road, more games etc, they would get more funding over the 4 year cycle. The women hold one qualifying tournament over 2 weeks. Therfore, being well funded for the 12 months prior to that tournament is fair.

When the men are in a down cycle, then look at the B team for domestic matches. Thw women are domestically based, so they coul dstill maintain a decent schedule during their down cycles.

Now this also assumes that the CSA takes a good hard look at their adminstration costs as much of the costs of youth development are borne by the provincial associations.

[canso]

"The CSA is saving some money in 2005. The World Cup team gets paid less for non World Cup qualifiers, with match fees of $3,000 dropping to between $1,000 and $1,700. There are also some insurance savings."

That conspiracy theory doesn't seem so far fetched now does it?