Grizzly Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Was switching channels last night and turned on the Pistons game just when the brawl was starting. It was the most exciting basketball game I ever watched but that is probably because I find the sport dreadfully boring. Have to admit after all the hypocritical American crowing about the Bertuzzi incident and every soccer incident I do enjoy their own not infrequent incidences of player and fan violence. Of course kids seeing violence on television is not as serious as seeing the bare back of a women in a sexual situation. The NFL and ABC will probably get a large fine for scarring these kids for life. What should the suspensions be? I think Artest should be out for the year. The players shouldn't be abused by the fans but although the cup hit him in the face it didn't seem to hit him very hard and warrant the response. Then after coming out of the stands he and O'Neil hit those fans who although they shouldn't have been on the court didn't threaten them in any way. O'Neil and Jackson should also get significant suspensions of about 40 games each. Wallace despite starting the player brawl wasn't involved in the stands and should only get a couple of games. The police should also investigate and lay charges on both those fans and players who participated and threw punches. Any other opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Prison time for assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 I'll just say that it'd quite convenient that Artest might be suspended for a long while at a moment when he requested a break to "rest" from his rap album... Basketball has always been weird for me, with no separation from fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead Prison time for assault. Defintitely a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 I'm glad I don't have to deal with it. It's funny, despite all of the talk of the (US) media, you see more brawls in basketball and baseball than hockey by a 10-1 margin in the professional sphere and there's far more fights on the field in the 'big 4' sports than you'd see in soccer all over the world. I think Artest might get the season. Which probably wouldn't upset him. I think the Detroit fans are largely getting off easy from what I've been seeing. Wallace over-reacted IMO to the foul and the scuffle was settled down until Artest got hit by the beer. Of course had Artest not been laying on the scorer's table(!?) nothing would have happened. I think O'Neal and Jackson might be in nearly as much trouble. As much as Artest started things, it was the other two that were really throwing the hay-makers. Still the Detroit fans were throwing more punches and really inflamed the situation. The thing that struck me was the look on the face of the fan in black that Artest went after first. He looked at Artest and had this weird smile on his face; like Artest broke the fourth wall and climbed out the guy's TV or something. Not like he'd just hit a large man in the head with a beer and was about to get a pounding. He seemed to have no idea that his actions (assuming he threw the beer) would have consequences. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktci Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 quote: The thing that struck me was the look on the face of the fan in black that Artest went after first. He looked at Artest and had this weird smile on his face; like Artest broke the fourth wall and climbed out the guy's TV or something. Not like he'd just hit a large man in the head with a beer and was about to get a pounding. He seemed to have no idea that his actions (assuming he threw the beer) would have consequences. cheers, matthew I think what you saw were the dollar signs in the fan's eyes. Each punch was probably worth a hundred grand or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 21, 2004 Author Share Posted November 21, 2004 According to the announcers the guy Artest went after wasn't the guy who threw the beer. They said it was the older guy in the white hat who later hit Artest from behind. I haven't seen a camera shot that shows who threw the beer. Other then the guy in the white hat I didn't see too many fans taking swings at the players other than in self defence. The two guys on the court fought back after Artest and then O'Neil attacked them for no reason other than they were on the court. The first fan actually backs away a bit before Artest hits him. The fans were definitely throwing beer and one chair but most of the punches seemed to be more self defence after the players twice their size attacked them. I would expect the guy in the white hat to be charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Lets not get onto the fans too much. One guy threw a beer. Arenas have security to throw that guy out. At an NBA game that is the consequences that should happen. Players being paid millions of dollars should have the brains to know that an NBA arena is not the "street" (in reference to Vince Carters defence of what happened). NBA players are well compensated enough to be able stay under control in that situation, without going into the crowd and attacking fans that pay their salary and create the interest in the sport that results in them getting the kind of salaries they presently get. However basketball players in particular have no respenct for their fans and their disdain shows. Under the circumstances I think the fans were pretty well restrained. I know of some place where if the players started attacking the home crowd, those players would be leaving the place in ambulances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC supporter Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 I was actually watching the game at the time on one of the Detroit cable channels. I'm gonna agree with Krammerhead here -- going into the stands is like gambling on sports: players are made aware it's an absolute no-no and there are serious consequences. Artest & Jackson are going to have deal with the ramifications, both from the league and the law. (And, BTW, let's not forget we're talking huge men, 6'7" +, so no wonder fans scattered; also, there was less than a minute to go, and a lot of fans had already left so there were thousands of empty seats). As for the fans who came on the court and were greeted with haymakers from Artest & O'Neal -- well, what the heck are these people thinking? I've got no sympathy for them whatsoever, and again, I assume they'll be dealt with by the law. My guess as this stage: Artest at least 40 games, Jackson & O'Neal 25-30 games, Ben Wallace max. 4-5 games. In fact, I'd say 2 games for Wallace if it wasn't that the suspensions are going to appear so one-sided that the NBA will stiffen his penalty beyond what his infraction actually was worth. Okay, they've just released the penalties. Artest gone for the season. Indiana's Stephen Jackson suspended for 30 games and Jermaine O'Neal for 25. Detroit's Ben Wallace gets a six-game ban, while Pacers guard Anthony Johnson gets five. Four players were suspended for a game: Indiana's Reggie Miller, and Detroit's Chauncey Billups, Elden Campbell and Derrick Coleman. All suspensions are without pay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 artest is suspended for the rest of the season. stephen jackson got 30 games. other players got extended suspensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydog2006 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 What went down was brutel yes there have been some saying the fans are not to blame at all.I am sorry that just does not cut it the fans that threw the beer should face a life time ban from the rink as well as the fans who ran on to the court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 quote:Originally posted by jaydog2006 What went down was brutel yes there have been some saying the fans are not to blame at all.I am sorry that just does not cut it the fans that threw the beer should face a life time ban from the rink as well as the fans who ran on to the court. I don't think anybody is saying that the fans shoulder no blame at all. What I am saying is the players have absolutely NO right to go into the stands to fight fans. The stadium has security and police to deal with that fan (and they would have gotte nthe right fan-Artest punched the wrong guy). Had they been given the time to go and sort out the ONE fan that threw the drink there would have been no problem, and their wouldn't have been a barrage of drinks thrown on the players as they left the court if the original attack on the fans had not occured. Some people seem to be judging the fans on what happend as the players left the court, and had the players not atteacked the crowd the fans would not have been riled up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZmac Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 In situations like this. Leagues sometimes have a tendency to overeact. Read today that David Stern (commish) is not going to take drastic action and fence in the basketball court. Good for him. Can you imagine watching a basketball game like some of the stadiums in Europe? The question is though would the cage be there to prtect the playes from the fans or the fans from the players? The suspensions given out were absolutely appropriate they sent the message that this is to never ever to happen again. Got to feel for the Pacers 3 key players gone for just about half the season. That's quite a blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydog2006 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 You are right the players have no right to go up in the stands but with that said.The fans have no right to toss beer or anything on players or staff.There is now some talk that atleast two fans could face some sort of crimal issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Security should learn to control the crowd and professional players should learn to control their actions during the game. Artest being gone for the season is probably what he wanted to do, as he has to promote his rap album. The NBA should fine both teams, both teams lose points as well, in addition to being suspended without pay. And must attend anger management classes in a non-NBA city! Players should not physically attack fans as that would be a criminal offense (assault). Imagine the players in front of the judge explain why they have to physically punch out an out-of-shape fan because they threw beer at this hairdo? Ron Artest is a 6'9 and the guy is at 5'9, and Artest feels threatened? Yeah, he's baaaad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 Artest sure knows how to win the sympathy of the fans, coming on television to whine about how unfair his penalty is wearing a t-shirt and cap advertising his record company. Then he doesn't miss any opportunity to mention the album release. The ones that should be complaining are the fans who will have to watch this idiot again when he returns to the game in a year's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydog2006 Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 How about the fans tossing punches throwing chairs and beer that is all on the line of assult of some sort.As for you saying pro players should know better thats way off player or not if you a player fan coach what ever you do not go into stands you do not toss things etc.I just hope the fans that started it all injoys his time behind bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 quote:Originally posted by redhat Security should learn to control the crowd and professional players should learn to control their actions during the game. Artest being gone for the season is probably what he wanted to do, as he has to promote his rap album. The NBA should fine both teams, both teams lose points as well, in addition to being suspended without pay. And must attend anger management classes in a non-NBA city! Players should not physically attack fans as that would be a criminal offense (assault). Imagine the players in front of the judge explain why they have to physically punch out an out-of-shape fan because they threw beer at this hairdo? Ron Artest is a 6'9 and the guy is at 5'9, and Artest feels threatened? Yeah, he's baaaad... Absolutely. Big-Fu'king-Deal. Very brave at court side. Bet he's a Mammy's Boy up in the cheap seats. What a twat. Dought his **** album will replace the 5 millions he's flushed. Really like the part about docking points. That would get the big boss' attention. That highlight is the most basketball I've watched in 20 years. And probably the best one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 quote:Originally posted by jaydog2006 How about the fans tossing punches throwing chairs and beer that is all on the line of assult of some sort.As for you saying pro players should know better thats way off player or not if you a player fan coach what ever you do not go into stands you do not toss things etc.I just hope the fans that started it all injoys his time behind bars. jaydog you are completely missing the point here, the players and the fans are not equals in this situation. This is an employee/customer situatiion. The basketball players are employees of the NBA, the fans are the customers. There is no job out there where employees are allowed to attack the customers, but plenty of jobs where customers get in the face and antagonize the employees. I know that at any job I've ever had where I've had to deal with customers if I had insulted or attacked a customer I'd have been fired, and in the case of actually attacking a customer I'd be arrested. It's getting really tiring hearing these players that say the fans should be subject to the same set of rules as the players. The same set of rules do not apply in customer and employee relationships. Also I'll point out again. Had Artest not run into the crowd and attacked the WRONG fan and started it all, all of the subsequent action would not have taken place. There would have been no fans throwing punches, chairs, drinks or anything at the players after the one incident. Had he left the ONE fan to security (who can't magically appear on scene at the immediate instance of trouble) then nothing further would have happened, with the exception of one fan being arrested (or ejected and banned from the arena). Sometimes you have to look at the reality and stop defending these atheletes just because you're star struck by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 It may not be fun having a paper cup full of beer thrown at you but it hardly justifies a physical assault on someone. Artest's response was totally out of line with the seriousness of the incident. No injury resulted from the cup nor probably even any pain. Wallace hit him harder than the cup did but Artest didn't seem interested in fighting him because he would have got his clock cleaned. Much easier to go after some small fans knowing that if you do get into any real trouble the security will bail you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydog2006 Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Listen and listen very careful i work for a high level hockey team and last year i had a plastic water bottel still with water in it thrown at me.No i do not go and beat then fan as much as i wanted to i did have some words with this fan.I know what its like that the reaon i am siding with him.You are doing your job and to have something thrown at you is an awful thing.How would you like it if you were at you work and someone tossed something at you would you just sit there no you would not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 A waterbottle full of water and a plastic beer cup are two different things. I used to play hockey and as a teen and I can remember lots of fan incidences. One mother leaned over and punched our coach in the head during one game, and I recall every time we went to play in Surrey the Surrey players slutty girlfriends used to spit at us through the cheap ass basball cage that they used instead of plexiglass behind their nets. Never once did we feel the need to go in and take swings at the opposing fans. So I can answer that yes people have tossed things at us in a game situation and I/wedid just sit there, like we are supposed to. quote:You are doing your job and to have something thrown at you is an awful thing Artest wasn't doing his job, he was fighting. As far as I know that is not required in a basketball game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Artest deserved to be suspened but the fans involved deserved to have the stuffing beaten out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydog2006 Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 You don't get it artist was not the one who started the rumble.He was on the table and some old fart tossed the beer on him if it was not for that the fans would not have been punched.I am not saying what artist did was right far from it and yes he got what he should have but the fanwho started the whole thing should aslo get something.Right now at the very least the fan will get a life time ban from the arena it is very possible now he may face some criminal charges.As for the fans that ran on the court they very well could aslo get life time bans and criminal charges.Atleast artist is a man and came out and said sorry as for the fan who started the whole thing should do the same he still claims he was in his rights.If you read the back of you ticket if its basketballhockey etc most tickets have the fans rights printed on them.These rights do not include tossing items at players running on the court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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