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What makes one a Voyageur?


Robert

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Krammerhead shared on the other board how he feels about this question. Since I am fairly new at this, I'm curious as to what other think a Voyageur is? What makes one a Voyageur? Is it participation on these boards? Is it being a fan of Canadian soccer, in whatever form that may take, i.e. national teams, clubs, ect.?

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I'm more of an Ultra than a Voyageur. Most of my interaction with Voyageurs has taken place on the net -- and the majority of it has been negative. Anytime there is talk of an actual Voyageur-event -- the type that the Ultras have been holding at least twice a month for the past four years -- it's always a letdown; it always turns out to be, in reality, just another Ultras event. I sense this is the case in Vancouver as well. Whenever the "Voyageurs" get together for a national team match, it's essentially a Southsider get-together with a few "Voyageur" hangers-on. It's Southside songs, southside members, southside attitude and a few Voyageurs who try and keep up. That's how it is at "Voyageur get-togethers" in Southern Ontario - just subsitute everything Southsiders with everything Ultras.

The Ultras are my long-time friends, people who I know and trust. The Voyageurs are just names on my computer-screen - and too often they're names that seem to enjoy bashing the hell out of my home-town. It's difficult to feel any particular solidarity with those types. It seems to be the same on the other side of the country, but instead they see us as somwewhat evil. heh.

There are a few Voyageurs - Current Champ, Matthew, Matbin, Devon, among others - who have made their presense known at a number of Ultras/Voyageurs events. These are people who I've met, who I know, and who have proven their dedication. So ya, I can say I feel a certain loyalty towards them. But heck, there's people who live in Southern Ontario on this board who I don't think have ever joined us at Lynx games! How can I really consider these people part of a common group of soccer-supporting friends when they've never even bothered to show up for what is a quick dash to Centennial? I'm not bashing these people - but I'm not going to say it's easy to show them the same loyalty that it is to people who I know and who I share lots of fond (and some not-so fond) memories with.

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Sobering thoughts JayWay. I am new to this board and have not incurred the location specific abuse - one of the reasons why I chose 'sparta' as a location was that I did not want to be judged by where i am from, but rather by what I write. The fearless hedonistic calculus that is Etobicoke by name, western Toronto by locale is where I call home.

I think the essence of what you are saying is that a 'voyageur' in the GTA sense is a kind of hanger-on, easy to criticise the soccer scene, but yet somewhat impotent when it comes to supporting local soccer, like the Lynx as the GTA example. Some Voyageurs don't have access to a local soccer team of significance, so they can't be faulted and I won't criticise them. And I can see your point, some of the voyageurs are abstract entities, and some of them also have Janus-faced perspectives on soccer. It is a kind of conditional statement some tacitly abide by - "Oh I like soccer, but only when the quality of soccer gets better, then will i actively support it". But how can it get better if so few actively support it? I have been to roughly 5 Lynx games in under 2 years and have regrettably witnessed only 1 win. But, I realise that if the club is going to get better, which i hope to hell it does, logically speaking, it has a slightly better chance of doing so with me being in the stands. I don't know of any pro sports team that has improved or grown through a "principal of fan avoidance". I can understand some may use avoidance as a form of criticism of how a team is run, such as some people saying going to Leaf games should be avoided (well those who have the money), until they can ice a team (when the NHL is playing) that has a chance to win Lord Stanley's Cup. But i think only such avoidance is constructive when the team is already established. Soccer in Canada is not.

Perhaps the old Bernard Shaw saying 'those who can do, those who can't teach' can be modified to fit the case of the Southern Ontario Voyageur:

"Those who can, 'do' (Ultras), those who can't, 'criticise and wait' (S.O. Voyageur?)"

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I don't think it's unusual for people to relate to the club level, nor inapporpriate for the local club chapters/supporters/whatevers to take a lead in supporter organizing the national supports when the situation arises that the NT calls upon such and such local. What do you expect? The mens NT hasn't played at home until this round of WCQ and likely won't again until the next round. How do you groom a dedicated supporter group like that?

Anyway, the question again? Oh yeah. What makes a Voyageur. How about a follower of Canadian football. Maybe something a little more than a casualy interested fan. A dedicated follower of the game.

How about that?

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quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

I don't think it's unusual for people to relate to the club level, nor inapporpriate for the local club chapters/supporters/whatevers to take a lead in supporter organizing the national supports when the situation arises that the NT calls upon such and such local. What do you expect? The mens NT hasn't played at home until this round of WCQ and likely won't again until the next round. How do you groom a dedicated supporter group like that?

Uh, no. It has nothing to do with the teams. I'm much more dedicated to the national team than I am to the Lynx (and I consider myself a fairly large Lynx fan). I was speaking exclusively in relation to the fans, not the teams.

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I have a greater belonging with the Ultras Montréal than the Voyageurs per say because I've spent 30-40 games with the Ultras, week in, week out, whereas I've been to two games with V's (one in TO in 2000, one in Wales this year). The Vs to me is more a loose network because one can be a V without even seeing a Nats game in years (witness our abroad correspondants).

HOWEVER, I live and, more often, die with the national team, because we're in the pyramid with everyone else in the world. That Guatemala loss hurt much more than any Impact loss to Rochester.

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quote:Originally posted by Daniel

I have a greater belonging with the Ultras Montréal than the Voyageurs per say because I've spent 30-40 games with the Ultras, week in, week out, whereas I've been to two games with V's (one in TO in 2000, one in Wales this year). The Vs to me is more a loose network because one can be a V without even seeing a Nats game in years (witness our abroad correspondants).

HOWEVER, I live and, more often, die with the national team, because we're in the pyramid with everyone else in the world. That Guatemala loss hurt much more than any Impact loss to Rochester.

After that loss, I think our whole group was close to tears.

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I've always been leery of definitions for this group. It's not stable, it's not organized and I think it's fine the way it is.

Am I voyageur? I guess so, but I don't even know what that is. To be me it's a fan of Candian soccer who tries to get out to as many national team games as possible and give their full vocal backing at each game. But if I had another group to be affiliated with in my home town, that I spent much more time and energy involved in, then I can totally relate to associating myself with that group.

I think it's a title you can wear or disown. It's your choice. There are those on this board and around the country that would be offended to be called a Voyageur and that's cool. I don't care what anyone thinks about me or this group. I think the atmosphere at national team games is better and better every year and I don't care how that happens.

When I first heard about this group, the people that were real driving forces aren't even around much anymore if at all. The first game I went to in Toronto, I walked into the Duke of York and sheepeshly asked if anyone knew where the Voyageurs were. The bar was full of English fans because they'd played Brazil about four hours earlier. One of them replied "isn't that David Bailey's group?" We can't help how other view us. I never did find anyone at the Duke. The people who at the time seemed key to me in organizing that game were sea and Behrouz. Neither of whom are around anymore to my knowledge.

The people change, the ideas change, but as long as a group of people who are eager to make a lot of noise gather together at Canadian games, I'll stand with them. That was basically the sole goal when the Voyageurs started to my knowledge and it's the only one I particularly care about. It doesn't matter what they call themselves as far as I'm concerned.

cheers,

matthew

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Voyageurs involve the National teams, whereas the Ultras and Southsiders are CLUB

supporters. In this country I find that club supporters are stronger and more committed

than most Voyageurs, but YOU CAN BE BOTH.

There are quite a few committed Voyageurs and those are the ones that try to travel

to see the matches (plane rides, bus rides, car treks!) and understand the meaning

of "support" (versus pretending).

Hopefully the loose association of the Voyageurs would be changed in the near future.

We all share in this passion for football.

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Voyageurs involve the National teams, whereas the Ultras and Southsiders are CLUB

supporters. In this country I find that club supporters are stronger and more committed

than most Voyageurs, but YOU CAN BE BOTH.

There are quite a few committed Voyageurs and those are the ones that try to travel

to see the matches (plane rides, bus rides, car treks!) and understand the meaning

of "support" (versus pretending).

Hopefully the loose association of the Voyageurs would be changed in the near future.

We all share in this passion for football.

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I'm tempted to say stupidity .......but some-one would take it seriously .

I don't even know what a Voyageur is , my pastime is following soccer and I enjoy what live games I can can attend mostly AUS U de Moncton and some senior games. But alot of little kids games as my only official soccer job is to ferry the offspring of the offspring to their games in the summer . I'm a soccer Grampy .

But win or lose our national men's , women's , U's teams ....wear the G D Maple Leaf and you've got my emotional support as life (or is that gov't...40% of what I earn and 15 % of what I spend) takes almost all my financial ;)

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I'm tempted to say stupidity .......but some-one would take it seriously .

I don't even know what a Voyageur is , my pastime is following soccer and I enjoy what live games I can can attend mostly AUS U de Moncton and some senior games. But alot of little kids games as my only official soccer job is to ferry the offspring of the offspring to their games in the summer . I'm a soccer Grampy .

But win or lose our national men's , women's , U's teams ....wear the G D Maple Leaf and you've got my emotional support as life (or is that gov't...40% of what I earn and 15 % of what I spend) takes almost all my financial ;)

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quote:Originally posted by argh1

I'm tempted to say stupidity .......but some-one would take it seriously .

I don't even know what a Voyageur is , my pastime is following soccer and I enjoy what live games I can can attend mostly AUS U de Moncton and some senior games. But alot of little kids games as my only official soccer job is to ferry the offspring of the offspring to their games in the summer . I'm a soccer Grampy .

But win or lose our national men's , women's , U's teams ....wear the G D Maple Leaf and you've got my emotional support as life (or is that gov't...40% of what I earn and 15 % of what I spend) takes almost all my financial ;)

From this post alone, I'd be proud to sit next to you at any G D Maple Leaf game.

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quote:Originally posted by argh1

I'm tempted to say stupidity .......but some-one would take it seriously .

I don't even know what a Voyageur is , my pastime is following soccer and I enjoy what live games I can can attend mostly AUS U de Moncton and some senior games. But alot of little kids games as my only official soccer job is to ferry the offspring of the offspring to their games in the summer . I'm a soccer Grampy .

But win or lose our national men's , women's , U's teams ....wear the G D Maple Leaf and you've got my emotional support as life (or is that gov't...40% of what I earn and 15 % of what I spend) takes almost all my financial ;)

The Oxford English Dictionary has no Voyageur word. In the Compact Dictionary of Canadian English the definitions of Voyageur - Can. formerly, a boatman or canoe man, esp. a French Canadian, who worked for a fur-trading company; also a fur trader who journeyed into the remote parts of Canada, esp. the Northwest.

Can one of the founding Voyageur members can shed some more light on this and why was the name chosen? Maybe we can all start wearing a little beaver on our heads at games.

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