Canucks in Germany (Nov 5 through Nov 11)

[Guest Ed]

A big test this Saturday for Hannover 96 as they put their five game winning streak on the line against the club all teams love to beat in the Bundesliga. Julian de Guzman and his team visit Olympic Stadium to take on Bayern Munich. The teams are level on points with Hannover sitting in 4th place on goal difference.

Werder Bremen are only a point off that pace in 6th place and have a chance to move up in the standings as they visit Hertha Berlin on Saturday.

On Sunday in the Bundesliga 2, Tam Nsaliwa and 1.FC Saarbruecken will look to get back to winning as they host 1860 Muenchen and Ryan Thomson hopes to see action in a Rot-Weiss derby with RW Oberhausen hosting RW Essen.

Also on Sunday, Nik Ledgerwood and the 1860 Muenchen reserves will be away to TuS Koblenz in the Regional League South.

In the Oberliga Sudwest, Dylan Hughes and 1.FC Kaiserslautern reserves visit SpVgg EGC Wirges tomorrow. On Saturday, Victor Oppong and SV Waldhof Mannheim are home to 1.FC Normannia Gmund in the Oberliga Baden-Wuerttemberg and 1.FC Schweinfurt 05 are away to 1.FC Passau, with both Waldemar Dutra and Alen Marcina hoping to see action in the Oberliga Bayern.

[Guest Ed]

Not a great day for Canucks in the Bundesliga yesterday as Julian de Guzman and Hannover 96 get thumped 3-0 by Bayern Munich, dropping from 4th to 6th place in the process. Julian goes 90 minutes as a defensive midfielder as they go behind 3 minutes in and then give up two more late in the 2nd half.

Paul Stalteri and Werder Bremen looked to be stealing a 1-0 win in Berlin when Hertha Berlin drew level late in injury time. Despite the draw, they move up one spot to 5th place.

Another solid win for Tam Nsaliwa and 1.FC Saarbruecken as they hammer 1860 Muenchen 4-1 at Ludwigshaven Staduim in Saarbruecken today.

In the Regional League South, Nik Ledgerwood goes 75 minutes in midfield today as his 1860 Muenchen amateurs draw 1-1 with TuS Koblenz.

Waldemar Dutra played 90 minutes with FC Schweinfurt 05 in a 0-0 draw and Victor Oppong was in the back line for SV Waldhof Mannheim in their 1-1 draw today.

[Guest Ed]

Both Julian de Guzman (Hannover 96 vs Borussia Dortmund) and Paul Stalteri (Werder Bremen vs Eintracht Trier) are in action in the 3rd round of the DFB Pokal (German FA Cup). A win puts each team into the last 8. Remember Werder Bremen won the double last year (Bundesliga Champion and DFB Pokal Champion).

A rare chance yesterday to see Julian de Guzman in action with Hannover 96. He looked very composed alongside Lala as the two defensive midfielders. Almost all the ball movement went through Julian, he surely led the team in touches. Also was head to head against Ballack at times and the big German star was lucky not to be shown red for his vicious studs up two footer on Julian late in the 1st half. Julian got in a good elbow in the 2nd half though. All in all, a good performance and I can see how he has matured big time since the beginning of last season. Seems wasted on the right wing for Canada. Ah well, perhaps he will be utilized effectively for the 2010 campaign.

[canso]

Great reports Ed! It helps so much for those of us who don't get to see these guys play very often to understand why they don't play so well for Canada and why Yallop is a dolt! I remember DeGuzman battling with Effenberg a few years back and really showing his grit in a more combative central role. Where do you think he should play with the next generation of MNT?

[Guest Ed]

I think he should be in front of our back 3 in a defensive mid role based on his experience so far. He is consistently rated by fans as one of Hannover's top players, so his many critics on this board should note that he does play very well in the Bundesliga and it is the supporting cast I think that lets him down for Canada. I can't recall any pure blunders yesterday, just a lot of crisp short passes and the occasional long ball switching play to the other side of the field. The type of game that requires some understanding between players which was next to impossible with our many line up changes and lack of prep games.

[canso]

Have you seen Nsaliwa or Oppong playin in Germany as well? I read that Tam was playing a sweeper role and doing quite well, maybe he's the guy to anchor a back three? Will he be in the Bundesliga next year?

[Guest Ed]

I am not in Germany but have been following all Cdns in Germany for a few years now. My comments on Julian were based on seeing the weekend's Bayern Munich game on FSWC.

Tam is playing central defender in a flat back four for Saarbrucken and I think he should have been part of our MNT in the semi-final round. The coaching/scouting staff for some reason prefer out of season A-Leaguer's in our back line. The Bundesliga 2 is not the EPL but I would have to rank it above the A-League. Victor has yet to prove himself at a high level but has been making a living playing in Germany now for 4 years or so.

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

I am not in Germany but have been following all Cdns in Germany for a few years now. My comments on Julian were based on seeing the weekend's Bayern Munich game on FSWC.

Tam is playing central defender in a flat back four for Saarbrucken and I think he should have been part of our MNT in the semi-final round. The coaching/scouting staff for some reason prefer out of season A-Leaguer's in our back line. The Bundesliga 2 is not the EPL but I would have to rank it above the A-League. Victor has yet to prove himself at a high level but has been making a living playing in Germany now for 4 years or so.

Ed, your impressions please: Would you not say that most of teams in the Bundesliga 2 are at least comparable to the likes of Milwall and Ipswich etc?

One thing for certain--Tam has good wheels. It is interesting to see our young guns developing into professionals. Many of them are finding their strengths and are starting to nail down specific positions. I know Devos won't be around for the next WCQ campaign, but over the next few years I'd love to see the following back line:

Stalteri Devos Nsaliwa Kluka

With a midfield of:

Hutch Imhof DeGuzman Brennan

And strikers:

Ocean Hume

I suppose in time Devos would be replaced with McKenna or even Hutch. And if Grande gets stuck in with Ipswich and refines his game and fitness, he will make it tough for anyone who want to play in the centre of mid.

Others: DeRo, Simpson, Bent (?), Reda, Bernier

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

I am not in Germany but have been following all Cdns in Germany for a few years now. My comments on Julian were based on seeing the weekend's Bayern Munich game on FSWC.

Tam is playing central defender in a flat back four for Saarbrucken and I think he should have been part of our MNT in the semi-final round. The coaching/scouting staff for some reason prefer out of season A-Leaguer's in our back line. The Bundesliga 2 is not the EPL but I would have to rank it above the A-League. Victor has yet to prove himself at a high level but has been making a living playing in Germany now for 4 years or so.

Ed, your impressions please: Would you not say that most of teams in the Bundesliga 2 are at least comparable to the likes of Milwall and Ipswich etc?

One thing for certain--Tam has good wheels. It is interesting to see our young guns developing into professionals. Many of them are finding their strengths and are starting to nail down specific positions. I know Devos won't be around for the next WCQ campaign, but over the next few years I'd love to see the following back line:

Stalteri Devos Nsaliwa Kluka

With a midfield of:

Hutch Imhof DeGuzman Brennan

And strikers:

Ocean Hume

I suppose in time Devos would be replaced with McKenna or even Hutch. And if Grande gets stuck in with Ipswich and refines his game and fitness, he will make it tough for anyone who want to play in the centre of mid.

Others: DeRo, Simpson, Bent (?), Reda, Bernier

[Guest Ed]

Both Canadians remaining in the DFB Pokal advance to the quarter finals. Julian de Guzman in his usual d-mid role picks up a yellow card as Hannover 96 dispose of the beleaguered Borussia Dortmund 1-0. Quite a wild game, with Julian involved in penalties at both ends. He sets up Stendel who is taken down in the box but the PK is missed. At the other end, Julian takes down Kehl and a PK is awarded but Ewerthon misses. All this with the Dortmund coach shown the stands midway thru the 2nd half.

Surprisingly, Werder Bremen need extra time to dump 2nd division Eintracht Frankfurt 3-1, with Paul Stalteri playing 90 minutes in the back line.

The draw for the last eight has not been made as yet.

To the Beaver, it's hard to compare teams in difft leagues. All I can say is that I have often heard that the gap between the 1st and 2nd Bundesliga is not as wide as between the top EPL clubs and the Championship or whatever they call it. The newly promoted Bundesliga teams (Mainz, Nurnberg and Arminia Bielefeld) are all doing OK, midtable or better and of the demoted teams to the Bundesliga 2, two of them (Eintracht Frankfurt and 1860 Muenchen) are only midtable, with only 1.FC Koeln looking to go back up at this point. Make your own comparisons with Norwich for example in the EPL.

[Grizzly]

Correction to your post Ed, the 2nd division Eintracht that was defeated by Bremen was the one from Trier not Frankfurt. As far as the league comparisons go I think both leagues are a fairly similar level. However, in Germany many contracts have a relegation clause that invalidates contracts. Thus, German teams being relegated often lose a significant number of players (sometimes half the team) and do poorly in the first year down. Additionally this frees up a number of players to sign with the promoting clubs. I am not sure whether this is as common in England or not but if not could be one reason that promoted teams tend to do better in Germany.

[The Beaver]

Ed and Grizzly: danke!!

[canso]

"Stalteri Devos Nsaliwa Kluka

With a midfield of:

Hutch Imhof DeGuzman Brennan

And strikers:

Ocean Hume"

----------------

That's a great looking team, here's how it looks in my pipe dream (not talking about Kevin)

back three with a sweeper

McKenna - Nsaliwa - DeVos

four across the middle

Stalteri - Hutch - Klukowski - Simpson

Two attacking mids

Hume - DeGuzman

And a centre forward

Occean

with Marcelo Bielsa as manager! (cough, cough)

[Cheeta]

Hannover96-Bayern Munich replay tonight on FSWC. Good chance to catch The Guz's performance. Love watching the man play. White boots and all.

[Canuck Oranje]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Correction to your post Ed, the 2nd division Eintracht that was defeated by Bremen was the one from Trier not Frankfurt. As far as the league comparisons go I think both leagues are a fairly similar level. However, in Germany many contracts have a relegation clause that invalidates contracts. Thus, German teams being relegated often lose a significant number of players (sometimes half the team) and do poorly in the first year down. Additionally this frees up a number of players to sign with the promoting clubs. I am not sure whether this is as common in England or not but if not could be one reason that promoted teams tend to do better in Germany.

Regarding the point raised about relegated B-1 teams dropping players and promoted B-2 signing B-1 players, it is only half true.

In looking at the three teams promoted from B-2 this year and the three teams relegated from B-1, it does show that a number of players were dropped.

However, not many stayed in B-1. From my quick tally, only 12 released players from the Cologne, Frankfurt, and 1860 Munich signed with B-1 teams and only two to promoted B-2 teams.

The promoted teams are a more fascinating story. Mainz, for example, has fielded a team of players who have basically played in B-2 last year. Nurnburg has used 4 new players (to its team from B-2) in its starting lineup and Bielefeld has used 3 new players in this year's B-1 season.

While there may be some minor errors in these observations, it does add further evidence that the level of B-2 play is closer to that of B-1 than the Championship is to the Premier League in England.

Incidentally the three promoted teams in England added about 14 new starters for their first EPL season depending on how you define a starter.

Still, a more telling statistic is the amount in transfer fees paid by English clubs promoted to the EPL compared to German clubs promoted to B-1. The three promoted English clubs paid a combined 19.7 million euros (WBA accounts for 13.5 million euros)in transfer fees for new players. The three German clubs paid a total of about 5.1 million euros (including 1.3 million paid by Mainz to Bremen for Friedrich who had been on loan to them the previous year).

I raise this again because it seems that B-2 is discounted much more than it should be and then, the ability of Nsaliwa seems discounted along with it. The level of intensity and competition in B-2 from top to bottom is easily comparable to the League Championship in England. As for the a comparison of quality, one can only say that it is comparable too as others have said even though the EPL might be a little better than B-1.

[marktci]

The report for the Werder Bremen - Eintracht Trier match, from paulstalteri.com:

Tuesday November 9th

After 120 minutes, Werder Bremen came away victorious in their German Cup match against 2nd division Eintracht Trier.

Werder went ahead in the 5th minute when Daniel Jensen scored off of a beautifully placed pass by Paul Stalteri. Trier levelled the game in the 57th minute.

Werder were unable to find the winner until the 105th minute when Daniel Jensen scored his second of the game. Klasnic sealed the victory in the 120th minute.

Werder are now in the quarter finals of the German Cup.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Correction to your post Ed, the 2nd division Eintracht that was defeated by Bremen was the one from Trier not Frankfurt. ....

Thanks. Slight brain misfunction there. Had Trier right in the preview.

[beachesl]

Germany grapples with thorny issue of foreigners

By Erik Kirschbaum

BERLIN, Nov 12 (Reuters) - Germany's Bundesliga, where squads are filled with foreigners, is taking steps to reduce the influx of players from abroad but the measures appear to be half-hearted and could backfire.

European soccer has struggled for years with the question of whether and how to limit the numbers of foreigners and the issue has reached boiling point in Germany where the hosts of the 2006 World Cup finals are worried by the slide of their national team down to 16th in the FIFA rankings.

The German Football Association (DFB) and Football League (DFL) agreed last month to cosmetic changes that give the appearance they are clamping down on the number of foreigners.

But genuinely tough measures wanted by the DFB, which fears young German talent is not getting the chance to develop at the highest level, were vetoed by club executives represented by the DFL.

German teams have lined up with as many as 11 foreigners and many fans believe promising German players are being elbowed out of the Bundesliga, hurting the national team's prospects.

Now soccer authorities have decided enough is enough.

The DFB wanted to cut the number of non-Europeans from five to four from 2005-6. The DFL accepted that but only after broadening the definition of a "European" player.

In future players from any European country will be allowed to play in the German league without restriction. Currently, only players from the 25-nation European Union (EU), rather than Europe as a whole, count as "European".

So while limits on the numbers of players from North and South America, Asia, Africa and Australasia will be strengthened next season, players from non-EU countries within Europe, such as Croatia, Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria or Switzerland, will face no restrictions.

The number of non-Europeans in each team will be cut further to three for the 2006-7 season.

"At the end of the day they came up with an agreement that for all practical purposes doesn't change anything," wrote Der Spiegel magazine.

Clubs in Germany and across Europe have turned to foreigners because they often provide as much experience for lower wages. The 1995 Bosman Ruling forbade EU countries from imposing limits on the number of EU players in a team.

Recent statistics from Bundesliga matches show more than 60 percent of players were not German. Energie Cottbus made history in 2001 when they fielded 11 foreigners. Foreigners scored 16 of the Bundesliga's 20 goals on one recent weekend.

UEFA is now considering introducing rules which would require up to perhaps eight "homegrown" players to be included in every match-day squad.

Other major soccer countries in Europe have different rules governing the foreign influence.

In Spain, each first division team can register and play three non-EU players.

DUAL NATIONALITY

In practice many clubs get round the limits by obtaining dual nationality for players because they have lived in the country long enough or have family links.

Barcelona had an excess of foreign players before this season but managed to rush through Spanish nationality for Silvinho. They also helped Edmilson to get an Italian passport.

Last season second division side Leganes fielded 11 Argentines -- all with EU passports -- in one game.

In the English Premier League there is no limit on non-EU players provided they comply with work permit criteria laid down by the government.

A non-EU player must have played 75 percent of his national side's matches over two years and the nation must be higher than 70th in the FIFA rankings.

Yet clubs normally win on appeal if there is a problem. A number of players have dual nationality after obtaining a passport from an EU nation, notably Peru's Nolberto Solano, who held a Greek passport when he joined Newcastle.

The only English players in champions Arsenal's first team are Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole. Chelsea were the first English team to name a starting line-up for a league match containing only foreigners.

French clubs have large foreign contingents, often Africans or Brazilians. Last weekend, champions Olympique Lyon had five foreigners in their starting line-up, Champions League runners-up Monaco eight, second-placed Lille six, third-placed AJ Auxerre five and Paris St Germain six.

RC Lens used to rely heavily on African players with 10 of them in their squad at the beginning of the 2002-2003 season.

"For equivalent skills and experience, they are half the price of a European player. Most of them have experienced football at the highest level," said coach Joel Muller.

UEFA's ideas on "homegrown" players mean players would have to have been nurtured through a club's youth system or developed at a national academy by the relevant football association.

The system might help the Germans but certainly not in time for the 2006 World Cup.

(Additional reporting by Simon Baskett in Madrid, Jean-Paul Couret in Paris, Mike Collett and Mark Meadows in London)

Updated on Thursday, Nov 11, 2004 8:10 pm EST