Jump to content

Is a Cnd. League a CSA responsibility? Yes or No?


Robert

Recommended Posts

quote:Originally posted by argh1

Yeah , my point is for the pro game only . The best example I can think of at the moment would be If I loved water ping pong and had a gahzillion dollars I could start a league but even though I promoted the begeezus out of it and bought the worlds top players would enough folk show up to pay the bills .

So , how do we create interest enough to get folk to pay to see soccer on a regular basis . So starting a league with out consumer demand is impossible.

To have a Canadian League we primarily need two key components; an entity which sets up as the league (and as the CSA continues to be unwilling to assume this responsibility, they should not interfer with any concern that is willing to take on this enterprise) and clubs. The Canadian league would be a new entity (as we currently don't have one) and the clubs forming the league could be either existing clubs or new. The existing clubs would obviously be more desirable as they already have a club infrastructure in place and could base their decision on joining the league based on their current revenue and expenses. Starting a league with established clubs would also be able to start up quicker than starting from scratch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by BHTC Mike

Please note as well that the original question did not specify that the league

If its not pro, then what good will it do. Do we not have plenty of amateur or semi pro leagues already. Plus we have all those nice national championships for all those age groups.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Calling the Rugby League a league is funny. They play a 6 game season. The players play on local clubs teams when they don't play one of the SIX games. That's 3 home games 3 road games. No one gets paid. I wonder what that costs? 10K a team.

And as a result they have a league and get to name a national champion. Do I think we could do a little better... of course! But the CSA's budget is a little bigger than Rugy Canada's as well isn't it? I'm not asking for a pie-in-the-sky EPL to suddenly drop into Canada overnight (or even an SPL for that matter!).

quote:So I guess all you guys would love for a Canada soccer league. A 6 game Amateur league. Talk about lowering the bar. Why not just go skins vs shirts. But you could easly get all the team scarves and head to the local pub and feel proud.

How does going from no league to having some league lower the bar? You can't get any lower than we are. Please understand also that I'm not proposing replacing the A-League teams, MLS dreams, or anything else. Optimally the CPSL and PCSL clubs could be folded into this sort of starting point - as it would clearly have to be regional and pseudo-semi-pro at best - and eventually enough clubs could establish themselves at financial levels that could attract the A-League clubs into forming a truly national Div.1

quote:AND then listen to the Cure and feel very hip. Close your eyes and you're almost in the midlands.

Ironically I'm actually growing to appreciate The Cure as I get older and wiser. Look, here's the deal: me and a bunch of my buddies and some great new guys we've met at games go out 7 - 10 times a year and chant, sing, and make merry at Hamilton Thunder games. I'm not an idiot, I know I'm not watching Serie A out there and I know the players barely get paid if at all. But it's still fun and we get to have a laugh and if we close our eyes and dream hard enough sometimes it does just start to feel like a blustery terrace on a cold February afternoon in the Hamilton on the Clyde instead of the Hamilton on Lake Ontario.

Am I asking for too much to see other small, self-sustaining, financially solvent clubs that play at a higher level than the local Sunday morning league spring up across the counrty? Is it too much to have a national league structure for those clubs so that some sort of national (think CHL) playoff system can be devised to determine a national champ? Personally I think not. I think that's the minimum standard that the CSA should hope to achieve in the next 5-10 years. If that then grows into something bigger and better... great! If not, well we'd still be better served (outside of Van, Mont, and TO) than we are now.

Mike.

edit - meant to say "A-League clubs" instead of just "A-League" at the end of my first paragraph.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

If its not pro, then what good will it do.

If it's not pro it'll do the good of having a national league. As I've said numerous other times my primary interest is in setting up a national leauge for fans who want to watch soccer. Call me quaint but I do actually value the spirit of competition for it's own sake. I'd like to see a national champion of Canada crowned (which incidentally is why I'd really like a national Open Cup more than anything else at the time being). Will Canada win the World Cup as a result - no. Would we have a national league that could hopefully develop clubs suitable for the step up to a pro-league (or even true semi-pro) in the next 15-25 years - yes.

As this is a site dedicated to the support of our national team it's not suprising that most posters are willing to subordinate everything else to the success of the MNT. As Krammer (and now me) relentlessly has to point out though that is not the only reason for aspiring to develop a national league.

quote:Do we not have plenty of amateur or semi pro leagues already.
Sure, and they are neither integrated nor national. As the organizing body for soccer throughout the entirity of the country it's the CSA's job to initiate those processes. They've failed for about 100 years now.

Mike.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by BHTC Mike

As this is a site dedicated to the support of our national team it's not suprising that most posters are willing to subordinate everything else to the success of the MNT. As Krammer (and now me) relentlessly has to point out though that is not the only reason for aspiring to develop a national league.

Count me in too! (I've said so many times, but I know I'm not as "vocal" as Krammer! ;))

I'd like to know who else feels strongly about this point of view. I can't think of anyone else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Well, I don't see any evidence that there is the talent to form a national league that will provide better quality of play than what we have now with the a-league. I am assuming that, by a national league, you mean a CSL type league with at least 8 teams. There were five teams in the a-league last season, one won the championship, the second team almost made it to the finals, another team missed the playoffs and the last two were near the bottom. Given that the rest of competition consists of div 2 level profesionals from the US, I therefore see no evidence that we have the depth in talent to form that type of league (ie.: CSL style)that will improve our international competitiveness. Unless the level of operation is solid enough fiancially to repatriate 90% of of our overseas talent and can attract some quality international talent. You know that that won't be possible. Its been a few years now since the CSL ceased to exist and one can easily forget what the games were like or be tempted to romanticize about the league beacuse there were only canadian clubs. But, even though I followed the games quite closely on TSN, and seen a few live at CCR ( and even one game at Esther shiner stadium), I recall the games as very poor in quality compared to the NASL. It was a humongous drop. So much so that the ripples were bound to affect our National teams. And it did IMO.

The CSL did have players like Radzinski, Peschisolido and DeVos but one could argue that these players developed at places like Germinal Ekeren, Darlington, and Dundee United. If just getting to europe is what you measure as success, then you could argue that the A-league has done much better (eg.: Stalteri, Hutchinson, Bernier, ). Furthermore, DeRo ( another ex a-leaguer) has done well and he didn't go to Europe.

I don't see how the likes of Sutton would have gotten any better by facing opposing teams that are even further watered in talent (eg.: CSL type format)than what they are currently playing in. You can't just look at getting to europe as a the measure of success, its where in europe you are going and with which clubs. So I don't buy that "talent factory" tag that you have put on the Lynx. Yes, they have developed some good players but for the most part, the reason that many of their players have ended up in europe is because they ( unlike the Impact for example) sell them cheap. And, there is no evidence that, from a development standpoint, that playing in Scandinavia is better than the a-league. Reagrding the CSL, some players in that league were former CIAU players and I don't see how playing in an environment where the season lasts from sept to Nov prepares you for a pro career in soccer.

Regarding MLS, I just received from Rogers a free 3 month trial sevice for the digital channells which includes FSWC. So for the past three weekends, I have had a chance to see more MLS games. Could Montreal and Vancouver compete against MLS sides? I don't know. But the quality on display in the playoff games has been pretty impressive and I have seen a lot of a-league games live and even saw one or two on TV. Visually, the MLS holds up pretty well to many other competitions shown on FSWC. Unfortunately I cannot say that about many a-league games that I saw. The Lynx versus Calgary game was one I couldn't attend but ended up watching on TV. The gap in quality of play looked very vast between the recent MLS games on FSWC and my recollection of that mid season clash of canadian clubs.

Firstly, a new CSL would not have to provide a higher level of play than the A-league. If it provided a similar level with more clubs, then it's serving a superior service in terms of developing Canadian talent.

The purpose of a new CSL would be to develop the talent. Would you prefer 3 A-league teams or possibly 8 CSL clubs ? I would go with 8 clubs, because it's providing greater opportunity for young Canucks to develop. There is no possible way that a mere three clubs can assist all the potential young Canucks to develop where they need to go.

The CSL provided this opportunity to teenagers with the potential. Pesch and Rad were just teenagers when they won Rookie of the Year in the CSL. I doubt either one would break into the starting line-up of our three A-league clubs, so their talent would go to waste, as many of our young players are. Yes, their develpment contniued in Europe, but they were not born into European First Division clubs. Devos (I still remember watching him as a gangly teen with London) would never have made Europe without the CSL and either would any of the other's (as they have all often said in many interviews) .

The level of CSL play compared to A-League could be possibly considered marginally lower, but not by much. Clubs like the Calgary Mustangs were far worse than many of the CSL clubs. In terms of attendance, the crowds are also similar.

Do you think the TO Lynx are far greater on the field than the TO Blizzard ? I certainly don't.

The purpose of our professional clubs should be to provide an environment where our greatest players can raise their level of play and take their game to the next level. The CSL provided, despite it's many shortcomings, that environment. It also enabled a greater number (lower operating budget) of cities to participate, thus providing a better development opportunity.

Why should our resources be used to prop-up the USL ?

Why should my money (the good old loonie) going to the CSA be used to support an American league ? As a Canadian soccer supporter, I have a real problem with this.

If those involved with the CSA are incapable of creating the professional environment that is required for our promising young players, then they should step aside and let someone else get the job done. To date, they have not even attempted to create a national Cup, which is nothing short of an outrage. If this is not a priority for the CSA, then what it the purpose of having them ?

The CSA has done nothing in terms of creating a National Cup, nothing in terms of assisting the development of a Canadian League, and according to our players, have not provided the resources for our national team to have a legitimate chance at qualification for the World Cup.

What I want is a complete change at the top of the CSA, and a change in prioties that works for Canadian soccer. I want a CSA that is prepared to roll up their sleeves and create a National Cup and Canadian League. Instead we have leadership that has failed on all accounts, and tries to hail a possible single MLS franchise as a positive development for Canadian soccer.

For years I have defended the CSA, but no more. Their priorities are not in the best interest of Canadian soccer and now is the time for head's to roll.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Count me in too! (I've said so many times, but I know I'm not as "vocal" as Krammer! ;))

I'd like to know who else feels strongly about this point of view. I can't think of anyone else.

There seems to be a great deal of speculation over what standard of play a new Canadian soccer league would offer. This seems like putting the cart before the horse. The level of play will be whatever it is initially and will improve slowly over time. Any national league is more than what we have now. Personally, I would like to see a national U19 league start next year and to raise it to an U20 league the following year and an U21 the next and so on. That way it would focus primarily on Canadian youth. Should the league's focus be on being a feeder for the national team? No, no and no. My 7 year old boy has seen the Whitecaps play half a dozen times over the last year and we are lucky to live in a city that has a pro team. This is how he is starting to develop a love for soccer. If he had to develop this through the National team, he would have been exposed to only two games this year and would quiet likely have to wait another four years for the next opportunity. What about the fathers and sons who live in non A-League cities? How do these boys receive live exposure to pro soccer teams? I believe for the sport to really grow at the grass-roots level, a national league, regardless of the initial talent level is needed for Canadian youth to identify or aspire to. If the CSA would only do as good a jobs with the young kids as they claim, then maybe one or two Canadian National Team players could be iodentified in a survey of boys under the age of ten. They can name hockey, baseball, basketball and football star players, but I doubt many will come up with a Radzinski or de Rosario. We should be focussing on the next generation not being neglected in the same manner that we have suffered. Are those little books on the rules of soccer and how to play the game, that the CSA is so proudly launching on their webpage all our kids are going to receive from the CSA? Did we need little books telling us how to play the game? Shame on you, Kevan Pipe and the entire CSA, for insulting our kids this way.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest HamiltonSteelers
quote:Calling the Rugby League a league is funny. They play a 6 game season. The players play on local clubs teams when they don't play one of the SIX games. That's 3 home games 3 road games. No one gets

paid. I wonder what that costs? 10K a team.

You cannot possibly say that Rugby League hasn't raised the level of visibility of the game in Canada. Rugby has found a way to create regional all-star teams. So what if they only play 6 games? So what if they

are amateur? The game and league is coast to coast. The infrastructure is there and (it seems that) everyone is on the same page. The system is great since I'm sure that, possibly, in 10 years, some of those

guys will be paid players of the CRSL. Rugby has a fraction of the CSA's numbers and they have a coast-to-coast league.

What does soccer have? Splintering, whining, arguing, apathy, and the eternal optimism that 'someone else' will help the game out.

quote:Originally posted by BHTC Mike

Judging by the responses of my BHTC brother-in-scarves Hamilton Steelers in other topics I can sense that he shares this view. Not surprising really: anyone willing to hand out free kazoos at a CPSL game is

probably ready to support just about any level of soccer so long as its the best we can do at the time being.

Absolutely. As long as Hamilton is involved, I want to be there, and I feel I must be there - kazoos and all.

I am looking at both a long term and short term solution that an amateur game can provide. We ween the market on the best soccer we have across the country. We take the successes and the failures where they

occur but do so at low risk. When the amateur league becomes stable in finances and has the best interest of the future at stake, then we allow clubs to become semi-pro and pro. We do not do this for the good of

the players, we do this for the good of the league. If the league is healthy, the talent will supply the league.

We have incredible systems that we can base a league upon, but everyone wants to reinvent the damn wheel and skip a few steps. Take a look at the CHL and Rugby.

My opinion, the CSA should facilitate a LEAGUE first, and a professional one second. If they can do both in one shot, then be my guest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have to ask yourself WHY?

Why have a Canadian PDL?

The question I ask is why even use Canadian Rugby as an example?

Italy crushed Canada 51-6 using players who best experience was playing a 6 game season. (Note: no european based players used) and tommorrow they face England. God hope they keep under 200. And I don't think the the Rugby League has done much for Rugby in Canada. Rugby like Soccer is on a downswing in terms of results. We did much better sending our best overseas and letting real pro clubs develop these players.

And if we do create a CPDL what do we do with the best players? Do they stay in the league or do we push them onto something better- like the MLS or Europe?

I would hope so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest HamiltonSteelers

Rugby has created a goal for the best club players to achieve. The league generates little interest, however, it will facilitate those rugby fans who want to see the best we can offer domestically and give exposure to those players on the cusp of a national selection. As long as we're producing better players, does it matter whether they are getting paid domestically or not? No.

What's nice about the rugby example is that they are not franchises, rather operated by the local unions. Nobody is pulling a 'get rich quick' scheme (a la Edmonton), and as they are being run by those who, mostly, hold the best interest of the game at heart, the league has the promise of future successes, both on the pitch and in the stands.

According to TheScore, Canada sending a B squad was by design. Them getting crushed by Italy is an explanation to be better served by Rugby Canada and their 4-year plan (which I like).

quote:We did much better sending our best overseas and letting real pro clubs develop these players.

It works for Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Ireland, Wales, and most of Africa. Why not have a CPDL? I have already answered why we should have this, so here we go again. Until we have the resources to produce professionals at a steady rate on a regular basis, lets produce more top amateurs. It's cheaper (read: low risk) and a step below. Once the system is in place, turning pros is the next evolutionary step, no? I'd rather see a player get $20-50k a year because he's good enough to earn it, and not because he plays domestically.

What is there to gain by having "someone" come along, drop millions of dollars into a game and hope that the support is there in each city and each team to prop this league up. The CSL made sense as it was coming off the demise of the NASL where Canadian clubs fared decently at the gate (meaning there was proven interest for these clubs). We have no visibility. No coat tails to ride on. The Impact may be huge in Montreal after winning the league, but are for not in the rest of the country.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...