MLS in Toronto articles/discussion

[sstackho]

I couldn't find a good thread to put this in otherwise, so I'll dump any MLS-in-TO-related articles here.

From the Star on Sunday:

New pro soccer squad could help national club; Argo owners show interest in MLS 'Somebody has to find right formula'

Michael Clarkson

Toronto Star

665 words

24 October 2004

The Toronto Star

MET

E08

English

Copyright © 2004 The Toronto Star

A proposed Major League Soccer franchise for Toronto would be a financial risk, but it could reap rewards for the national soccer program, the co-owners of the Toronto Argonauts say.

Howard Sokolowski and David Cynamon said they were seeking an MLS team for the new 25,000-seat York University stadium in two or three years, an idea endorsed by MLS commissioner Don Garber.

"Somebody has to find the right formula for soccer in this country," said Cynamon, who has two sons playing minor soccer in North York. "Thousands of Canadians play soccer. For the future, it seems like a sport you want to invest in."

However, the Argo owners say that seeking an MLS franchise is only in the preliminary stages; they are meeting today with Kevan Pipe, chief operating officer of the Canadian Soccer Association, to get more information.

Last Tuesday, the day after the MLS idea was announced at the York press conference, Sokolowski admitted he did not know that the league's expansion fee was $10 million (all figures U.S.) until he had read it in a newspaper that morning.

"(The expansion fee) could be too much, depending on how everything else falls into place. We might buy it ourselves or we might have to look for investors," he said.

"We don't know the answers to a lot of questions right now. We are interested in getting a team, but it's in such a preliminary stage. But it is exciting."

The 10-team MLS, with franchises in New York, Chicago and Washington, D.C., lost about $24.5 million last year and only one team, the Los Angeles Galaxy, declared a profit, about $200,000. Most ticket prices are between $10 and $40 and most player salaries are between $25,000 and $100,000.

There are some encouraging signs for the top league in the U.S., which is completing its ninth season and has averaged more than 15,000 fans a game this year. That's the third fan increase in the past four years.

And, although the league does not have a huge TV contract, it has various deals with ESPN, ABC and Fox Sports World.

"To make money, MLS needs to get to 16 teams in a few years," Cynamon said. "For now, owners may have to take their lumps."

If MLS comes to Toronto, it would provide a high-calibre place for members of the Canadian men's team, much as the Toronto Blizzard of the old North American Soccer League did when Canada qualified for its only World Cup in 1986.

It seems to have worked in the United States, where the league was created eight years ago as a condition of the U.S. playing host to the 1994 World Cup.

Since then, the U.S. men's team has moved up to 11th in the world rankings. Canada is 95th and failed to qualify for the 2006 World Cup.

Meanwhile, the Toronto Lynx of the A-League, which is below the MLS in calibre, might have to "bow out" if the MLS comes to York University.

"We'll certainly do whatever is best for Canadian soccer, but I don't think the MLS thing will happen," said Nicole Hartrell, COO for the Lynx.

The Lynx could wind up playing their home games in two or three years at the York stadium, where they are listed as one of the stadium's tenants, although they have not signed a deal.

"I believe they want us to pay $5,000 a game rent, which seems reasonable, but we have to meet with them to talk about access to other revenue streams - parking, food concessions and sponsorship dollars," Hartrell said.

'Thousands of Canadians play soccer. ... It seems like a sport you want to invest in.'

[Polish_LYNX_Fan]

quote:

We'll certainly do whatever is best for Canadian soccer, but I don't think the MLS thing will happen," said Nicole Hartrell, COO for the Lynx

quote:

Whty not Nicole why not ???

[Polish_LYNX_Fan]

quote:

We'll certainly do whatever is best for Canadian soccer, but I don't think the MLS thing will happen," said Nicole Hartrell, COO for the Lynx

quote:

Whty not Nicole why not ???

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Polish_LYNX_Fan

We'll certainly do whatever is best for Canadian soccer, but I don't think the MLS thing will happen," said Nicole Hartrell, COO for the Lynx

Whty not Nicole why not ???

Well without a lot of mental effort I can think of 10 million and one reasons.

[DoyleG]

To bet would be on Seattle and Rochester getting the 13th and 14th spots in MLS for 2006.

After that, it will be a very long wait till the next expansion round.

[DarnCherry]

A long wait, and after that there will still be plenty of American cities wanting to join ahead of Toronto.

[Jarrek]

The league wants to expand to 16 teams by 2010, When you think about it, 6 years isn't really that long.

[marktci]

quote:Originally posted by sstackho

"To make money, MLS needs to get to 16 teams in a few years," Cynamon said. "For now, owners may have to take their lumps."

I'm not sure that I understand this. I don't see how more teams automatically equals more money (unless we are talking about franchise fees which, as the NHL found out, are a non-recurring, problem-masking form of revenue). And if 16 teams are better than 10, then why not 20? 30?

[jaydog2006]

There are 8 citys ahead of toronto the earlest toronto would geta team would be 2019.

[DarnCherry]

quote:Originally posted by jaydog2006

There are 8 citys ahead of toronto the earlest toronto would geta team would be 2019.

They'll probably stop expansion before then.

[DarnCherry]

I think jaydogs point was that it will be a long time before MLS even considers a Toronto bid.

[Cheeta]

I wouldn't want anyone to get too carried away worring about this expansion fee business. Most likely it isn't going to have to paid in a lump sum. I'm sure there'll have to be some commitment money from up front but the remainder may be spread out over X years or taken out of future league revenues.

Revenues like the teams cut from that massive Adidas sponsorship money and/or future expansion fees from other clubs.

Lot of possabilities. If MLS wants to be in Toronto, they'll make it as easy to join as possible and still end up getting their money in the end.

[jaydog2006]

Mls has not once said they want to be in toronto.At one of there media scrums they had last year a canadian reporter asked would the mls ever looking at expanding in canada.The brass said at some point the league will like to be in canada.They are not going to make it as easy as possible for a canadian team to get in.As i said before there are 8 very solid soccer markets in the vie for a team.Lets face it the shape canadian soccer is in right now do we need or want a mls team.

[Andrew W]

This was posted in another thread. I think he mentions Toronto specifically. I don't care really if they get a team one way or another, but let's not misrepresent what has been said or not said.

At the end of the day, MLS may decide that there are better options south of the border, but I think they will seriously kick the tires of any Toronto bid should it actually be forthcoming.

Soccer 'theatre of dreams'

CSA boss Pipe `ecstatic' about site

Argo owners hoping to land MLS team

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1098136210290&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064

JIM BYERS

SPORTS REPORTER

The Argos are getting most of the ink, but soccer teams will likely be the prime users of the new stadium at York University.

The stadium has long been the centrepiece of the Canadian Soccer Association's plans to host the 2007 FIFA world youth championships. But CSA chief Kevan Pipe outlined an ambitious initiative yesterday to bid on the 2010 Women's World Cup and the 2008 Olympic qualifying tournaments, and to stage a Gold Cup, the CONCACAF region championship.

The 25,000-seat stadium also will be home to the Toronto Lynx of soccer's A-League.

But that's not all.

Pipe said Argonaut co-owners Howard Sokolowski and David Cynamon are leading a group that hopes to land a Major League Soccer expansion franchise, an idea endorsed by MLS commissioner Don Garber.

"I'm absolutely ecstatic," Pipe told a news conference yesterday. "This is a world-class facility and it will be the theatre of dreams for Canadian soccer for decades to come."

Pipe said he was thrilled there's no running track around the field — as had been planned for the downtown Varsity site — because it means fans will be less than seven metres from the sidelines.

"They'll be able to take in the game like never before," he said.

The CSA talked two years ago about building a soccer stadium at Exhibition Place. They then joined with the Argos at the proposed Varsity site at the University of Toronto. Now they're at York, but Pipe said the location was never a critical issue.

He also conceded there was a great deal of concern from FIFA, the governing body of world soccer, when the U of T backed out of plans to rebuild Varsity three weeks ago.

"There were some interesting discussions," Pipe said with a smile. "But they're very happy with what we've got here."

The first big soccer event at the new stadium will be the 24-country world youth championships in 2007. A year or two later, Toronto could land a Major League Soccer team.

"We've met regularly with the MLS people, including one meeting very, very recently," Pipe said.

Sokolowski and Cynamon confirmed their interest in owning a team but didn't discuss details, including how they'd pay the hefty $10 million (U.S.) expansion fee.

Garber said yesterday the league will expand from 10 cities to 12 next year and that another round of expansion is set for 2006 or 2007.

"We're very interested in pursuing expansion to Toronto," he said. "We've had preliminary talks and we hope to have more."

MLS operates in several of the biggest U.S. cities, including Los Angeles, New York, Chicago and Washington, D.C.

[Silvio]

quote:Originally posted by jaydog2006

Mls has not once said they want to be in toronto.At one of there media scrums they had last year a canadian reporter asked would the mls ever looking at expanding in canada.The brass said at some point the league will like to be in canada.They are not going to make it as easy as possible for a canadian team to get in.As i said before there are 8 very solid soccer markets in the vie for a team.Lets face it the shape canadian soccer is in right now do we need or want a mls team.

You should check your facts before you post. True, Toronto is not the highest on MLS's list of potential expansion cities, but MLS has been mentioning Toronto specifically for over a year. The first time Garber mentioned T.O. was in a statement (note - not off the cuff, this was a prepared statement) during a press conference during the 2003 MLS All-Star game. The only difference is that until now, nobody knew who the possible investors were.

These days it seems like MLS will look at any city that has the right stadium and deep-pocketed owners. I think it would take a lot for MLS to give T.O. a team by 2009, but ya never know. And in the shape Canadian soccer is in, an MLS team would be a step in the right direction.

[DoyleG]

When Garber speaks, you always worry that his comments are off the cuff.

[Massive Attack]

Can Canada support a MLS franchise?

By NEIL DAVIDSON

(CP) - News that A-League franchises in Calgary and Edmonton have shut their doors seemingly does little to engender hope that Canada can support a Major League Soccer franchise.

But Kevan Pipe, chief operating officer of the Canadian Soccer Association, believes it is simplistic to link the two. Apples and oranges, he says. Perhaps, cranberries and caviar may be a better analogy. MLS is a whole new snack bracket for a sport that has staggered at Canadian turnstiles in recent years.

With the green light having been given to a 25,000-seat stadium at York University, Toronto will have the necessary home to catch Major League Soccer's eye.

Now it just needs in excess of $10 million US.

The MLS is currently at 10 teams, with new franchises on deck in Salt Lake City and Los Angeles, where the new team will share the Home Depot Center with the Galaxy.

Both new franchises paid $10 million US to join the league. Expect the admission fee to go up next time around.

This is for a city where the existing A-League team, the Lynx, has lost $5 million Cdn over its first eight seasons, according to indefatigable owner Nicole Hartrell.

The good news is the bottom line is improving for the Lynx, who have been without a decent home since an aging Varsity Stadium was demolished. Hartrell estimates last season's losses at $300,000 Cdn last season - on a $900,000 Cdn operating budget.

Hartrell is even expanding her soccer world. She has taken over the Toronto W-League women's franchise and expects to pour an additional $250,000 Cdn in that team next season.

She understandably does not want to compete with an MLS franchise.

"We don't believe that Canada's ready to support financially and otherwise an MLS franchise," Hartrell said Thursday.

And she wonders why the Canadian Soccer Association is looking past her organization.

So does the United Soccer League, the umbrella group that runs the A-League, W-League and others.

"I guess I'm a little unclear why the franchise that has been working to keep professional soccer for the period of a decade would be looked at as insufficient as a tenant in that stadium," USL vice-president Tim Holt said Thursday from Tampa, Fla.

"Maybe because of its past attendances? Well aren't they a direct function perhaps of not having an appropriate venue at this point?

"I think the Lynx should be given every opportunity to be the professional soccer franchise in Toronto and that should be supported by the CSA."

In terms of loyalty, he probably has a point. Still it's a dog-eat-dog world out there and the MLS trumps the A-League when it comes to soccer status in North America. Would you rather drive a Pinto or a Porsche?

The MLS is on record as saying it would welcome two more teams in 2006 or 2007. At $10 million US a head, why not?

Still the MLS is smart enough to know that expansion to the wrong places is akin to one step forward, two steps back. The league has already had to close franchises in Tampa and Miami.

So for the time being, it is safe to guess the league is going to take the best-heeled bid it can get.

Even if the gigantic MLS expansion fee includes upfront money for some league obligations for the first few years - so says Pipe, MLS won't say what the money covers - the CSA will need more than the Argos owners to pony up.

The CSA is essentially trying to act as matchmaker, in linking the Argos ownership with others with the resources to get involved.

There are people out there. Auto parts millionaire Frank Stronach of Aurora, Ont., has already dug into his wallet for soccer in his native Austria. In a perfect world, he could drop a few bucks in his backyard.

But even with a stadium and a franchise, pro sports teams exist on TV revenue. And there is no proof that TV is ready to spend real money on soccer in Canada. Not to mention North America's poor track record of past pro leagues.

Still Pipe is nothing but positive on MLS. "Pretty substantial progress," has been made on the search to expand an ownership group, he says. There have been "many" talks with MLS, which is "extremely positive."

As for the A-League woes in Alberta, Pipe argues that the two teams were hamstrung by oversized football stadiums, with Calgary's MacMahon further plagued by outdated artificial turf.

Losing records didn't help either. Both teams went 4-18-6 with the Calgary Mustangs averaging 1,258 fans per game and the Edmonton Aviators 1,478.

Toronto drew 2,444 per game, compared to 4,833 for the Vancouver Whitecaps and 9,279 for the champion Montreal Impact. The league average was 3,879.

A-League soccer may resurface in Calgary in 2006, according to Holt, if the right ownership group is found. Plus the A-League has yet to announce the makeup of the 2005 season, so the ink is not yet dry on the league makeup.

Pipe argues the right soccer venue will draw fans in Toronto and points to the huge population base in and around the city.

And he agrees that soccer snobbery - fans who will pack SkyDome to watch Liverpool or Celtic playing a meaningless exhibition game rather than take in a local pro team - could work in an MLS team's favour given that the league is North America's top flight and has star appeal with the likes of Landon Donovan and Freddy Adu.

The Toronto Argonauts like the MLS idea because it represents another tenant for their new home. The Canadian Soccer Association loves it, because it would keep some Canadian players closer to home while playing soccer at a competitive level.

More players at home means more time for Frank Yallop to work with his internationals. It also means less cost in assembling his squad.

And while the CSA is not looking to become part of any potential ownership group - it does not have deep enough pockets - Pipe says it is open to just about anything else.

"We've got an open agenda, an open book . . . we're not going to outright reject anything. Our top priority right now is being directly involved in the process of securing an MLS franchise for a least Toronto - and who knows what down the road."

That positive approach and out-of-the-box thinking is commendable. And the CSA and Argos deserve credit for rescuing their stadium plan after the University of Toronto pulled out.

But the road to an MLS franchise needs to be paved with more than good intentions.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/Canada/2004/10/28/689902-cp.html