bettermirror Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 and i am referring to you voyageurs. i was seated right beside you guys and singing along the entire first half. but because of some of the questionable chants initiated by Monster and one or two others i did not introduce myself. then the second half began the bigotry, and racism et al really came to the forefront. you had proud canadians cheering for costa rica (i was not cheering for C.R.) because of your horridly absurd, and embarrassing songs. i am absolutely embarrassed by that performance. i am also especially shocked considering the logical nature of this web site. i apologized on behalf of canada numerous times. i left immediately after the third goal, so i don't know if punches were thrown, but it would not shock me if they were. because of these disgusting chants and behaviours (throwing beer cups? and you guys complain about getting tossed from games) i will not be returning to this message board, nor will i be sitting near the voyaguers during future matches. i am absolutely appalled and ashamed to have been a part of this group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 With all due respect, WHAT DID YOU EXPECT? I think we've discussed this issue before the Guatemala game. I wasn't at the CR game ( I was at Guatemala), but I can assure you of two things: 1) what the some of Costa Rican fans were saying were WORSE (sexual, racist, etc.) and 2) most of these Voyageurs would shake hands with the other side, despite the fact that Voyageurs were being harassed by security and the RCMP. This happens ALL the time. Right now, I'd apologize for some of the offensive behaviour, but to me these guys are hardcore supporters. I'd rather support these guys than fairweather Canadian fans who are more concerned about getting to their seats and getting a view of the game, rather than cheering for OUR country. Just my opinion, with respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Keep in mind that the Voyageurs are a loose association and due to the growing popularity of Canadian soccer, there are no doubt a few wingnuts jumping on board. It's tough to stop someone from sitting in the Voyageurs section. I've been involved with the Voyageurs since year one, and I can tell you I have never met or heard of anyone named 'Monster.' I am in no way excusing the behaviour of a few meatheads, nor was I at the match, but don't tar & feather the whole group just because of a couple of losers that got out of hand and nobody has heard of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 quote:Originally posted by bettermirror and i am referring to you voyageurs. i was seated right beside you guys and singing along the entire first half. but because of some of the questionable chants initiated by Monster and one or two others i did not introduce myself. then the second half began the bigotry, and racism et al really came to the forefront. you had proud canadians cheering for costa rica (i was not cheering for C.R.) because of your horridly absurd, and embarrassing songs. i am absolutely embarrassed by that performance. i am also especially shocked considering the logical nature of this web site. i apologized on behalf of canada numerous times. i left immediately after the third goal, so i don't know if punches were thrown, but it would not shock me if they were. because of these disgusting chants and behaviours (throwing beer cups? and you guys complain about getting tossed from games) i will not be returning to this message board, nor will i be sitting near the voyaguers during future matches. i am absolutely appalled and ashamed to have been a part of this group. I guess there's not much point in replying if you're not coming back. Oh well. I agree to a point, but I think you missed the general tone. If you saw the Monster's soccer mom chant I think you would realize that it was all in good fun. The best football chants have to be stupid. It's the way it goes. Canadian fans -voyageurs included- are the most well behaved I've ever seen. You missed the CR supporter with the flag who taunted us, and you missed the fact that nobody kicked his ass -something he truly deserved. When, the world over, people are regularly beaten to a pulp and killed for who they support, I think we should be applauded. Although I do agree some of the chants were pretty vile. What can you do? Don't sing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrek Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 quote:and i am referring to you voyageurs. i was seated right beside you guys and singing along the entire first half. but because of some of the questionable chants initiated by Monster and one or two others i did not introduce myself. then the second half began the bigotry, and racism et al really came to the forefront. you had proud canadians cheering for costa rica (i was not cheering for C.R.) because of your horridly absurd, and embarrassing songs. i am absolutely embarrassed by that performance. i am also especially shocked considering the logical nature of this web site. i apologized on behalf of canada numerous times. i left immediately after the third goal, so i don't know if punches were thrown, but it would not shock me if they were. because of these disgusting chants and behaviours (throwing beer cups? and you guys complain about getting tossed from games) i will not be returning to this message board, nor will i be sitting near the voyaguers during future matches. i am absolutely appalled and ashamed to have been a part of this group. Anyone can claim to be a Voyageur, and just because some people chose to make an ass out of themselves it doesn't mean that we endorse that type of behaviour. Like WF said, we're a loose association and any Canadian soccer fan is considered to be a Voyageur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadasBest Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 You group all the voyageurs as racist bigots? Who's the bigot? You need to chill out. Yes there was some questionable material by a few people, but the opposing fans (In all 3 games I attended) gave it back as good as they got. None of opposing fans that I spoke to after the games were the least bit offended. I hate to lose any soccer fans in Canada, but if you're going to over-react and be "bigoted" towards us then good riddance as far as i'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footy Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 If you read the posts from the Guat game if you sat in that section during the Guat game you knew that the Chants would not be all clean and wholesome considering the tasteless crap the Ticos next to us were pulling. I applaud Johnny Monster this guy lead all the chants before and during the match and the Ticos around us never saw it coming ! He is a wity energetic guy that adds life to a already great supporters section and in the second half we needed his chants to get us through the game. It makes me laugh you guys are trying to slag a few guys becasue they wear their heart on a sleeve so the chants were not always clean .... if you want clean stay home or sit in the Grandstand with the blue hairs stick to chants like Go Canada Go ... I'm sorry but I attend most sporting events in and around town and this kind of stuff is standard fair .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I hate the racist and sexist chanting. Happily, in all the Canada matches I've been to with Voyageurs groups (Miami, Foxboro, Kingston, Edmonton), it hasn't been much of a problem. (I've seen much worse in the UK.) However, if it ever does become a problem, here's what I suggest doing: 1) Don't join the racist/sexist chants - if somebody tries to start one up and not enough people join in then the chant will die out quickly and won't likely be attempted again. 2) Try to initiate your own non-offensive chants. This may sound obvious, but whoever takes the initiative in starting a chant decides what the chant will be, so don't let the racists/sexists seize this initiative. Offer a better alternative with your own clever, catchy or humourous chant. 3) If this doesn't work, move away if possible. Just my $0.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 This isn't an easy one, I'll be honest. And it doesn't help that many of us are still clearly raw about our early--even humilating--exit from qualifying. Some of our chants were clearly over the line, plain and simple. We can make all sorts of excuses, but just because the opposing fans choose to be shi.t slinging, classless racists does not mean we have to respond in kind. I understand the sources of frustration: I feel them too. We lost, and in a humiliating fashion, and we are sick and tired of being outnumbered by the opposing team's fans in our own frickin country, especially when the good majority of those fans make their livings in the safety and "gentle" society of our country. It is like been shat on while somebody rapes your dog. Bettermirror, I encourage you to stick around, partially because I understand your feelings, but also because this is clearly a very loose affiliation, us Voyageurs. And plus, there will be opportunities for all types of Voyageurs to find their niche within this affiliation as time goes on, especially as we grow in numbers and diversity. In short, I encourage you to seek out those Voyageurs who believe in behaving in a manner that you are comfortable with and find ways to watch the games together. What I don't want to see is my brother and sister Voyageurs fighting with each other. We need to stick together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Jarrek Anyone can claim to be a Voyageur, and just because some people chose to make an ass out of themselves it doesn't mean that we endorse that type of behaviour. Like WF said, we're a loose association and any Canadian soccer fan is considered to be a Voyageur. When people like you and Winnipeg Fury start listening to one crackpots complaint and then take what he says as fact (when neither of you were there) and then start calling loyal supporters "wingnuts, meatheads and losers" who are making asses out of themselves why on earth would they want to be considered a voyageur? The people that are being slagged by Voyageurs who weren't at the game were not people that nobody has heard of who just sat in the Canadian Supporters section, they are some of the hardest working loyal supporters. These guys worked hard making sure tickets to the section were sold and then at the game making sure we were loud and proud. To slag Current Champ, Johnniemonster and the rest because one guy doesn't get out of his house much and lives a Mr. Rogers lifestyle starts bitching about imagined racism really shows why some Canadian soccer fans don't want to be associated with a group that slags it's own. Just because the group sang songs with an edge as opposed to "go canada go", some crackpot claims we were racist, and you guys take it as fact. I suppose if getting together with people of all nationalities and races and having some drinks, singing, chanting and having a good time together is racist then I guess we are. Considering that some Costa Ricans were looking to fight, I'd say we were well behaved. There was nothing going on at this game that would be out of place at any other sporting match. To backup another comment, no Costa Ricans had any problems with the chants. bettermirror must have been apolagizing to a party of one-himself. I'll tell you one thing, I'd rather attend a game with Current Champ, Johnniemonster, and those other guys (once again who are made up of all sorts of races) than some of you Voyageurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted October 14, 2004 Author Share Posted October 14, 2004 i have calmed down as the day went on. i shouldn't bunch all voyageurs. but from my seat, the tico fans were not racist toward the voyageurs until monster went too far. also, they asked quite politely for him to stop going too far and (not so politely!) asked him to turn around and watch the game (did he even watch the game at all!?). the tico fans only became incencessed at the end of the match and i did not see their final goal celebration as i left immediately afterward. i did see the soccer mom chant and laughed along with every one else. as i said, i was in full voice for the first half, but it all fell apart for me after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWay Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 bettermirror, Can you give us examples of the chants you found went over the line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 quote:Originally posted by bettermirror i have calmed down as the day went on. i shouldn't bunch all voyageurs. also, they asked quite politely for him to stop going too far and (not so politely!) asked him to turn around and watch the game (did he even watch the game at all!?). What is it to them (and you) whether or not he turned around to watch the game? He was standing in front of OUR section where everybody was standing, leading the chants for OUR fans. He was not obscuring any Costa Rican fans view of the pitch (the bleachers were further away from the field for this game, so the only thing he obscured were fans view of the running track). Methinks if any Costa Rican fans were upset it was because he had the nerve to lead cheers for a team they weren't supporting. How dare he. Here's some photos taken by Iain Canada of the game. See how harmless Johnnie and the rest of us are. http://community.webshots.com/user/iaincanada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Hey Krammerhead, do you know where I can buy this t-shirt? http://community.webshots.com/photo/200252676/200253396IrvJKy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouver Fan Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Johnnie Monster is a great fan of Canadian football.He'd have no problem shaking hands with the Costa Ricans after the game.I don't like some of the chants and as Mike D pointed out you don't have to sing along if you don't want to. "Alls fair in love and war"is the saying.Supporting our Canadian soccer team is like going to war sometimes.We don't like fans of opposing teams coming into our park and having fun at our expense.Most of wouldn't dare go to Central America to support Canada for fear of being harmed in some way.Why do we have to worry about offending away supporters with some harmless chants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWay Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Holy ****, Rowan Atkinson! http://community.webshots.com/photo/200252676/200253168FhOPJn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouver Fan Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack Hey Krammerhead, do you know where I can buy this t-shirt? http://community.webshots.com/photo/200252676/200253396IrvJKy I'm sure Geoff Wallace could tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 quote:Originally posted by JayWay Holy ****, Rowan Atkinson! http://community.webshots.com/photo/200252676/200253168FhOPJn Without even looking at the picture I know you are talking about Pedram aka Mr. Bean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadasBest Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 quote:quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Massive Attack Hey Krammerhead, do you know where I can buy this t-shirt? http://community.webshots.com/photo/200252676/200253396IrvJKy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm sure Geoff Wallace could tell you. I had that shirt custom made. Shirt was like $15, printing was like $15. You can go to any custom shirt shop and have one made. I was originally planning on wearing "3 Qualifying games, and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt (And 1 Point)" But thought it was self-defeating, just in case we actually managed to win yesterday. And good to hear you've calmed down a bit mirror. Alot of frustration all around I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 BM, You weren't that granola-munching middleaged tosser who sat front row, first seat directly to the left of Voyageurs who told me to sit down because he couldn't see the match from a seated position? If not, I gotta say read some of my replies after the Guatemala game and you'll know where I stand on the cheers. If you are that ****er, then where and when do we meet so I can kick your pasty arse?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrek Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 quote:When people like you and Winnipeg Fury start listening to one crackpots complaint and then take what he says as fact (when neither of you were there) and then start calling loyal supporters "wingnuts, meatheads and losers" who are making asses out of themselves why on earth would they want to be considered a voyageur? The people that are being slagged by Voyageurs who weren't at the game were not people that nobody has heard of who just sat in the Canadian Supporters section, they are some of the hardest working loyal supporters. These guys worked hard making sure tickets to the section were sold and then at the game making sure we were loud and proud. To slag Current Champ, Johnniemonster and the rest because one guy doesn't get out of his house much and lives a Mr. Rogers lifestyle starts bitching about imagined racism really shows why some Canadian soccer fans don't want to be associated with a group that slags it's own. Just because the group sang songs with an edge as opposed to "go canada go", some crackpot claims we were racist, and you guys take it as fact. I suppose if getting together with people of all nationalities and races and having some drinks, singing, chanting and having a good time together is racist then I guess we are. I'm not slagging anyone. Far from it. What I'm merely stating is that anywhere a national team game occurs, fans are responsible for their own actions. Simple as that. Please don't overcomplicate things, or take my words out of context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Jarrek I'm not slagging anyone. Far from it. What I'm merely stating is that anywhere a national team game occurs, fans are responsible for their own actions. Simple as that. Please don't overcomplicate things, or take my words out of context. Quote: "and just because some people chose to make an ass out of themselves it doesn't mean that we endorse that type of behaviour." How am I taking those words out of context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Champ Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 RE: TITLE OF THIS THREAD Eat me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC supporter Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Hey bettermirror -- I know it's "too PC" for some, but count me in as one who has ZERO tolerance for sexist or racist comments, regardless of where they occur. This is a supporters group and, in my view, a pretty good one; I'm happy to see the Voyageurs identified with activism, participation and support for Canadian soccer. But it's also a loose grouping of fans, and short of becoming a formal organization with bylaws, etc. -- which I wouldn't want to see -- people are certainly free to act as individuals, and are and should be responsible for their own actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnie Monster Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 "Can you hear the Mirror sing?" "Nooo-oo! Nooo-oo!" * * * * * With all due respect to the handful of Voyageurs who I've met over the past few months in Vancouver, this chat board really burns my ass at times. There's a few reasons why I rarely post here. I'm always amazed by the extent to which some "fans" on here take it upon themselves to play the role of the online morality police. As the final whistle blows, they can hardly wait to climb on top of the proverbial soapbox to distance themselves from those "horrid, horrid fans" who apparently disgrace our country and ruin the games for everyone else. Seems like they're dying to get behind the keyboard and stroke their egos about how well behaved they are. Sweet Christ - sometimes there's more strokin' at this board than the movie theatre where Pee Wee Herman got busted. When I read posts like this one ("I'm soooo shocked! I'm soooo offended! Racism! Sexism!") it really makes me want to gag. Over the line? Gone too far? Last I checked I still had the right to sing and chant as I please - Ticos, Guanos and the CRTC be damned. Seems a lot of Voyageurs also get wrapped up in the delusion that they are Canada's international ambassadors of sport. They think they're "representing" the nation in some regard. Horses.h.i.t.e. Hate to break it to ya, but nobody outside of Canada gives a rat's arse about the Voyageurs, or how they behave at Swangard when the Costa Retards are lobbing cups of beer into our section(yes, they tossed their share!). The only ones "representing" Canada are the guys on the pitch. End story. The rest of us are just there to be exploited at the box office. As for Mirror's claims that some of the Ticos "asked" me to sit down, that's a total fabrication. Not a single one of those gutless buggers opened their gob to me (not in English, anyway), so I don't know what he's talking about. Doesn't matter anyway. Anyone who's been to a game with me knows damn well the response I'd send to anyone trying to give me a lesson on how to be a courteous spectator. As for racism claims, get bent: as suggested in an earlier reply, I actualy DID shake hands with some Ticos after the match... you know, the match where I was proudly standing side by side with white guys, brown guys, yellow guys and the Israeli from England? I'm sure posts like mine only drive the wedge between Southsiders and Voyageurs even further. I just don't feel like this collective represents me as a fan in any way . Sad but true - but as far as fans go, there is indeed a wide, chalky line dividing the pitch... I'm on one side, singing my guts out, leading the lads and cat-calling the RCMP with taser chants... Mirror's on the other, silently sitting on his hands with the Tico soccer moms who won't attend another match in Canada for at least four years. Done ranting now. Let the piss and vinegar begin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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