Oct 9 WCQ: Honduras v Canada POST-match thread [R]

[codegoat]

quote:Originally posted by BHTC Mike

Isn't it great to be Canadian. Let's go win an ugly hockey trophy and feel good about ourselves.

That trophy was brutal eh? I think even the players were like, "what the heck is this?"

It isn't Watson's fault, I am not saying that, I am just frusterated and wish that we could have come out of Honduras with a good result.

[Bertuzzi44]

I am also very pround of our Canadian team. They went down to Honduras in the scorching heat as a big underdog and SHOULD have come home with 3 pts. This is the worst luck for any team I have ever seen! I also hope some of the heat gets taken off Yallop because let's face it, Canada was well-prepared and as I said should have won.

Our next game will be the toughest by far. Remember, Costa Rica is the highest ranked team in our group and after destroying Guatemala they will be riding a confidence high.

Canada will have to find a way to stop Paulo Wanchope and Rolando Fonseca, who combined for 4 goals against Guatemala.

Good luck Canada!!!

We deserve better!!!

[Moosehead]

it was disappointing. i wanted to check the score since 3:00 pm and didnt till the 93 min, I thought we had it till the last moment and again a goal in the last minute of play by the opposition. We are getting there, but there is still a lot of crap we have to get rid of, like excuses of heat etc. Craig Forrest defending watson to the bitter end, sure I am sure he plays his all for Canada, but early on he almost headed the ball in our net and then the header to the Honduran during the last minute of play to get the goal. Maybe waston is a class guy, but is there an element of the old boys rather than play on merit that is going on here?

Deguzman was inconsistant, Radzinski never seems to connect for Canada. Dessario has passion. Hutchinson is fantastic.

I so wanted this win and so upset for Canada, but on the other hand you have to admit that the Hondurans had a lot good chances in this game that didn't connect. When you look at previous Gold Cup matches, is there a huge difference in play. There was some pretty spectacular goals scored then by McKenna during the Gold Cup. I really enjoyed watching those game. Even the game where we were absolutely domintated by the USA the goal keeping was so inspiring.

the commentator Gerry D has a problem determining when it is goal or hitting the side of the net. Is he getting nervous on this one.

I don't want to pick on Onstad who basically had a great game, but I haven't seen such spectacular saves from him that I saw Hirshfeld (sp) save in the past.

This is coming from a fan without a huge expert knowledge on soccer, but just my observations.

[strobe_z]

Man.. Phuck the Phantom Phoul...

I am so sick of this crap.

[matthew]

The guys played really, really well tonight. I think that's three solid performnaces in a row. They attacked, held possession unlike any Canadian team I've seen in Central America. There were a few off nights (or more uneven performances), but on the whole most of the team played very, very well.

As for the rest of it, I can't for the life of me figure out why any rational team would keep following the sport in this country. I never really bought into the whole corupt Mexican argument, I just thought the guy was badly out of position and grossly mistaken. Tonight I have no idea what Stott or his linesman were thinking (whatever the call was). I don't really believe in fate, but I don't have another word for the futility it is to follow men's domestic soccer in this country. Am I giving up too cheaply?

I can't even enjoy a goal, because the inevitable fall is going to be even more painful. Once the goal was disallowed it seemed like a question of whether they'd get one or two. As soon as the whistle blew to disallow it, it felt like just another chapter in the book of how we've gotten screwed against Honduras (it was Honduras in the hex in 93 with the really phantom PK right?).

Anyway cheers to all of you keeping the faith. Your doing us proud. The team did us proud tonight too and that's all I can ask for anymore.

cheers,

matthew

[Kicked]

Wow. Sounds like you guys are handling this a lot better this time. Personally, I feel like sticking to playing soccer and want to quit watching it altogether... That goal being called back (and against Honduras again?!) made me feel sick.

Wonderful watching Canada's game improve, but it hurts more this way. I'd rather watch a weak team win the odd game than this good one get robbed.

Has anybody commented on Saturday's easy win for Mexico?

[beachesl]

..but I'm still real proud of the Canadian MNT!

[Soju]

But why would CONCACAF referees risk putting themselves under scrutiny in order to change the outcomes of games? What would they gain by doing this?

[Grizzly]

First off the Sportsnet coverage was awful. In addition to the delay and constantly varying schedule for showing the game, we get two guys watching the game from Toronto on tape just like us home viewers with almost no sound or atmosphere from the stadium. I would rather hear the crowd without commentary than listen to that. Dobson is a very poor soccer play by play commentator. As much as I respect Forrest for his years of excelent service to the MNT and his insight in Soccercentral, his colour commentating is terrible. He is far too much of a CSA company man to provide any truthful insight and still has friends on the team. How he could still praise the officiating after the terrible call on the goal and a variety of other incompetent calls (some of which were actually in our favour)is beyond me. And praising Watson after the almost own goal by saying he didn't think Onstad could have got that ball was equally beyond my understanding. Very often during the broadcast I was seeing something with my eyes but hearing something very different, kind of like the official Soviet (or in our case CSA) version of the game.

I thought our players made a great effort tonight but also that Honduras looked very beatable. While we should have won the game with proper referreeing, with a few adjustments to the player selection and tactics I think we could have won 3-0. We are starting to develop players who can outclass teams like Honduras. I thought our defense looked shaky the whole game as did the defensive midfield. Grande did look fairly good going forward but Honduras were able to get a lot of penetration and we got lucky on a few close offside calls. I am not convinced that Imhof and Grande were the two best defensive midfielders that we could have played tonight. Watson did not convince me tonight, too many mistakes and no ability to direct his headers leading to the tieing goal and almost an own goal. I like Jazic but he is not playing at the back for Kuban and takes a lot of chances that are not covered adequately by the midfielder on the left. He is a very good ball winner and I think would be best played as defensive mid. However, noone was called who could possibly take his left back position. Onstad still scares me. He bobbles a lot of fairly routine balls and makes a number of misjudgements. There was one cross that he went after and completely missed and was very lucky that no Honduran got his foot on the ball. Unfortunately since Yallop has taken over we haven't seen another keeper so it is hard to judge if he is our best possibility. At best he is only competent but not at international level in my opinion.

I thought our team did not control the ball enough and build forward. Notice that our top level players, DeGuzman and Radzinski, didn't shine tonight. I think this has a lot to do with lack of support, they are used to having someone supplying them the ball and then supporting them when they need to get rid of it. I think we were also greatly hurt by the lack of defensive help on the bench. Defending the lead it would have been much better to have a fresh defender to put in for the last ten minutes than changing the midfield. I don't want to be too negative after a great effort by the players on the field but I think we could have done better and am still not convinced by Yallop's tactics and coaching. I think we now have the talent to beat Honduras even with corrupt or incompetent referreeing and could have done so with a few changes in player selection and tactics.

[TOMLION]

never saw game how come josh only got 15 mins

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by TOMLION

never saw game how come josh only got 15 mins

Saw (and listened to) the game, the player Josh replaced at around

75' was Iain Hume, who is more talented (no disrespect intended) than RJosh. Originally I thought it was de Guzman, who's also very skilled.

The game was very good, Canada playing a 4-3-3 at times. Hume could

have converted early on, aside from the obvious harsh call on de Rosario's header. And I thought the Honduran goal was offside. Honduras was very lucky to come out with the tie.

Canada played one of its best games. And the Hondurans know it.

[mattbin]

quote:Originally posted by TOMLION

never saw game how come josh only got 15 mins

Josh is young and he plays a position where Canada has at least some depth. That he plays for Canada at his age in the WCQ says a heck of a lot for him.

I thought he played okay, too, making some good offensive plays. But I don't remember him doing anything special.

(Edit: I forgot that he hit the free kick off which we scored our second legitimate goal. It was a much better set play than most of Hume's -- Iain seemed to be having an off day as far as free kicks were concerned.)

Of course, my memory may be a little off because it's so furious...

(One other edit: he came in at 65' so by my reckoning that's 25 min...)

[fza]

Man I can`t believe Canada`s bad luck in this tournament, they`re starting to look like a team I know (Chilean National Team and Chilean Athletes in general)that in the dieing seconds of any important game or tournament choke and can`t hold on to a result, but this is different because Canada does everything well until something out of their reach screws them over.

I thought in soccer a team would go at least 5 or more games before getting robbed again but this is starting to smell weird, only 2 games after they robbed us in Edmonton, it happens again against the same team despite having an "american" ref!!!.

Thanks to Redhat I had the chance to watch the last 2 games and to finally see these guys in action because it`s different than reading this forum, watching the players individually play for their teams abroad or listening to spanish commentators scream like crazy when the goalies kicks a goal kick, and when I see a good soccer team I realise it right away.

After watching the Costa Rica game I couldn`t understand our Fifa ranking and was positive that this Canadian team had the class and game to beat anyone in Concacaf and fight for a "legitimate" place in the World Cup.

I still believe in this team and especially in it`s quality, because it`s another story when the team plays horrible and doesn`t deserve to be in a WC. So lets wait and see things finally fall our way the next 2 games and hope for DIVINE JUSTICE...

Cheers,

fza

[canadiankick97]

Divine justice...that would be nice FZA. Just not fair the way things are going.

[Ivan]

No question we should be feeling very hard done by given the two Honduras results. Should be two wins.

Great game by Hutchinson (player of the game), Grande, Devos and Onstad.

Very disappointed in Radzinski. No team in Concacaf has a player at his level and standard (except for Marquez for Mexico). Yet he has not been a matchwinner. He had to come through the way Wanchope did in the last game - he has not. I expected more.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

Screwed call. There was no offsides by any definition.

Seems that way to me as well. But I thought later about the position of the keeper and was wondering if the keeper had moved out thus putting DeRosario in an offside position. But since I don't have access to the replay and didn't tape it, I would like to re-watch that play again. Also, the camera focused in on DeRosario immediately after the the play and he very barely protested the call. Completely unlike the reaction we saw from our players after those two plays in the final five minutes in Edmonton.

Oddly, the officiating did not look conspiratorial to me in this game that is why I was wondering why the goal was called back. It did not look like a sham ( i.e.: Edmonton) given that there were a couple of attacking plays from the Hondurans that were whistled back earlier in the game, that replays showed were not offside.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I know a couple people have alluded to it, but I thought Grande's service was excellent. Even Radzinski seemed to appreciated it. His corner on the goal was also fantastic. And Imhof's play almost made me feel guilty for slagging him so much. It was a great game. At very least, we still have a chance to avenge our defeats.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Ivan

No question we should be feeling very hard done by given the two Honduras results. Should be two wins.

Great game by Hutchinson (player of the game), Grande, Devos and Onstad.

Very disappointed in Radzinski. No team in Concacaf has a player at his level and standard (except for Marquez for Mexico). Yet he has not been a matchwinner. He had to come through the way Wanchope did in the last game - he has not. I expected more.

Not sure that I would use "Very disappointed" to discribe his play. He wasn't as strong as he was in the second game and his preseance isn't as noticable as it was earlier in WCQ. He did create our best and maybe only, scoring chance in the first half by playing that ball square that set up Hume's chance. He (Rad) hasn't scored yet in the semi final round so that has to be a bit of a dissapointment but that may have more to do with the fact that we haven't had that many scoring chances created by our Midfield service. Especially in the first two games. He is also, the most closely marked canadian in World Cup qualifying so far, getting very little room and as a result he has been forced to drop back to MF at times. To be honest, one of the biggest weaknesses on the canadian side so far has been the other fwd position and thats why teams have keyed on him so much. Whomever Rad has been partnered with has not been able to find him and when Rad has set up his partner(s) they would miss the mark terribly.

One of the problems with all the talk of officiating controversies is that it tends to overlook other facts that contributed to why we on the brink of elimination. For example, If Hume had shown the slightest bit of opportunism so far in WCQ, we would be sitting on at least six points right now. In almost every instance Hume was set up beautifully by Radzinski. Specifically, when Hume was all alone in front of the keeper at the penalty spot last night, in edmonton when he glanced a header wide ( in a perfect spot) off of a perfect cross from Rad and later in that game (faced with a wide open net and unmarked) he rushed the play and volleyed it wide. Thats six points right there instead of two. Secondly, there have been defensive miscues. last night it was the poor header/missed clearance from Watson. In the first game it was poor marking from Stalteri that lead to space that created the 1st goal. And finally, the lack of pace from Pizzolito that led to the second goal. Plus lets not forget that dreaded back pass from Jazic.

Rad has scored when he was partnered up front with DeRosario, but I don't get why Yallop hasn't yet clued into this and moved DD up front. Of the newcommers, Grande is the most impressive so far with his great vision and passes. Only once tonight did one of his passes not hit the mark. He has continuously found wide open players in open space last night. Something that we were seriously missing earlier on in qualifying.

[Cheeta]

Thought Grande played very well too. Showed confidense on more than one occasion. Little juke, dribble left or right to find some space under pressure while looking for an option and then put a well weighted pass upfield. Very surprised actualy.

As for de Rosario's goal. Still thinking "what the Hell?" Don't know how you can be offside on a back pass 'cause that's what it looked like to me. And don't know how they can say the play was whistled on a foul by de Vos because the ball was spotted on the right side of the goal crease just where DdR scored from. So what the Hell?

By the way, any of you Winnipeg lads got the match on tape? Totally buggered the recording yesterday so I've no chance for a 2nd sober look at the match. Little help here!

So what have we got? Four goals in four matchs with both those scored by the defenders counting and both scored by strikers called back. Wonderful.

[Andrew W]

I echo the frustration with our damned luck. After watching the game twice, I actually welled up with pride with how well this team played considering all the potential excuses that could have been made for losing.

The Ft. Lauderdale thing allowed the players time to come together before the game and adjust to the time difference. I expect we'll see a win on Wednesday.

As for conspiracies or whatever, I've never subscribed to them, but I think our Karma has to be building for a good run of results. Damn, too bad there are tie-breaking formulas instead of coin-flips. We're pretty good at coin flips.

[Reza]

What a bitter pill to swallow..terrible...Instead of 6 points for Canada, we are sitting on 2 points.

In 2000, we played below T&T and Mexico and that's where we finished...but this time around, we definitely do not deserve to be fourth in this group.

Oh well..let's beat Costa Rica in Vancouver and we are still in this thing...

[RS]

Dejected.

That sums up my feelings on this game in particular, and this round as a whole.

The officiating last night was almost perfect. Aside from that phantom offside (I mean really, WTF?) I thought the American crew was fair and allowed play to build. They seemed to have earned the respect from the players too, as there was very little backchatting and whining going on from either side.

That being said, we have suffered yet another disallowed legit goal that would have given us a 2-1 victory over Honduras. The only thing I can hope for is that the team takes the positives from this match (and there were many) and doesn't dwell on yet another heartbreaking officiating blunder (and this time it was a blunder, I don't think there was any fould play going oe in this match officiating-wise, unlike the last Honduras match) for too long.

Our backs are to the wall. We need help from other matches as well as wins in our last two. Not impossible, but still, we shouldn't have been in this position in the first place.

Positives taken from this match:

Grande: How this man is still playing in the A-League is beyond me. Showed poise and critical decision making from the midfield that has been sorely lacking for Canada for years. And he hasn't played a competitive match in a month until yesterday. Showed no rust whatsoever. His service to the forwards was appluaded by Radz himself on many occasions. Pure class.

Hutchinson: Did we even miss Stalteri out there? I mean, this kid made me forget that our best player was not on the pitch last night. Calm under fire every single time the ball came near him, and he has enough skill to run the ball upfield and start an offensive foray from time to time. With him back there, we could have played Stalteri on the right side of midfield like everyone here has been clamouring for, had Stalteri not been unjustly suspended for the majority of our semi-final round. I can't wait to see Hutch in four years, when he should be playing at a much higher level than Swedish Premier and after he's hopefully put on 20 pounds of muscle mass. One of our top prospects for the future, no doubt.

More team play: As is true with Canada in every tournament we play, the team is starting to gel more as time goes on. You can see that players are anticipating each other much more than they were in the first two matches, although the finishing still leaves much to be desired.

Youth: Perhaps this is something that shouldn't be focused on until we (hopefully do not) get eliminated from WCQ. Never have I seen so many young guys play such prominent roles in crucial WCQ matches than I have in this round. People like Hutch, De Guz (who is now officially the new Stalteri, albeit with more skill. He gives the ball away a little too often but makes up for it with beasutiful cutting runs through the middle of the field. Once the decision making is there, De Guz will be our best player, hands down, jusat like Stalteri is now), Hume (who will mature as a striker, although he needs to play at a higher level. Hopefully Tranmere gets promoted this year, if not, he is bought by a better team), Simpson, Occean... these guys are going to be the core of the national team for the next decade, and I must say, I've never seen such a composed, talented bunch of young guys come up at the same time.

[Daniel]

For those surprised with Grande, he WAS signed by a Serie A team early in his career (and that has to mean something) before languishing in the lower divisions. He needed to get back on track and that's why he came to play for his hometown Impact. His play yesterday is what we're used to seeing all year. Great distribution and hardly a lost ball, plus good crossing and some efforts from distance.

We're still missing that "special" player that creates a goal from nothing (I guess Radz isn't that player, for all his *potential* class as a striker).

[codegoat]

quote:Originally posted by redhat

Saw (and listened to) the game, the player Josh replaced at around

75' was Iain Hume, who is more talented (no disrespect intended) than RJosh. Originally I thought it was de Guzman, who's also very skilled.

Josh came in at 72' for de Guzman, I just watched the tape again.

Both Iain and Julian came off for good reason. Julian gave the ball away more than any player on the pitch and Iain's touch just wasn't there.

[denis]

Posted - 10/10/2004 : 11:27:38 Show Profile Email Poster Reply with Quote

No question we should be feeling very hard done by given the two Honduras results. Should be two wins.

Great game by Hutchinson (player of the game), Grande, Devos and Onstad.

Very disappointed in Radzinski. No team in Concacaf has a player at his level and standard (except for Marquez for Mexico). Yet he has not been a matchwinner. He had to come through the way Wanchope did in the last game - he has not. I expected more.

___________________________________________________________

Radz is no super hero, but i can't say i was dissipointed in his play. He at least understands that more creative plays are whats going to score goals. I think he made some good moves up front, more plays that the oppositions defence can't read well in advance are needed.