Ian Kennett Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 I have read several posts which suggest that Canada ought to rid itself of anybody who is over 30 and who will not figure in the next WCQ for 2010. This has merit only to a point. I believe strongly that one of our biggest problems is that we are ranked so low that no countires of consequence are willing to play us on the regular basis that we need. Consequently, our team does not develop, our rankings do not improve, and our team does not play quality friendlies, etc. etc. (Yes, we did play some in Europe awhile ago, but few and far between!) I think that the 2005 Gold Cup, assuming that we do not qualify for WC, be made a priority for the MNT, and that the very best possible team be gathered for that. We need to try to win or to do very well in that tournament so we can get another invite to the COPA and to other tournaments. If the best team includes Radzinksi, then by all means we should encourage him to play despite his age with respect to 2010 (I agree that Pesch has seen his day, so I am not completely blind to the fact that some guys are finished internationally). In short, we need to play enough good teams to increase those damn rankings so that teams wanting friendlies will approach us rather than us always having to go hat in hand to beg a game against the likes of Bermuda! In addition, this would give Yallop a chance to prove to us that he is the man for the job. Let's be sure to keep the strongest team around for any games we can get. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Georgio Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 I am not sure Radz would even consider it. He said if he "didn't believe we had a chance of qualifying, I wouldn't be here" which to me means if there is no qualification for the WC there is no Radz. He is in it for getting to the World Cup because I gather it is a dream of his to play on the big stage like most every player. I don't think he cares about our ranking or the Gold Cup. I agree with everything else you posted though. Improve our ranking, set some viable short-term goals with winning as the first priority and doing whatever it takes to win. And work towards them with the next generation of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 I think we should schedule a Caribbean trip and play St-Kitts, St-Vincent, Antigua, and co. After that we should have an oceanian trip and play everyone except Australia and New Zealand............I think that if we play those teams once every 2 years we should be ok for our ranking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 I think our lads should do what's right by them. They don't owe a lifetime of servitude to the MNT program. Least of all one which dosen't understand the very negative effects on their livelyhood the CSAs bullship program puts on them. One go round. Cameo appearances after that if they feel up to it. Seems fair enough to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktci Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by loyola I think we should schedule a Caribbean trip and play St-Kitts, St-Vincent, Antigua, and co. After that we should have an oceanian trip and play everyone except Australia and New Zealand............I think that if we play those teams once every 2 years we should be ok for our ranking. I have some contacts with the Turks and Caicos FA (current FIFA ranking around 200). We should be able to take them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Am I mistaken or were the rankings not what helped to form the groups for qualifying, and thus cooked our own goose?? The groups were set out according to ranking, so that the reason we had Guatemala in our group was becuase they were the poorly ranked fourth team in the group. We were a third level team (out of a four team group)when the groups were formed and now we are bound to be a fourth level team in future rounds of sixteen for Gold Cup, WCQ 2010, etc. In this very important sense then the rankings do indeed matter, for if we were good enough to be in the top eight of our region, for example, we would automatically be placed with two lower ranked teams and not with three teams better than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownaguy Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Radz gave the national team a go to try and play in a world cup, you can invite him all you want, but I don't think winning a "Gold Cup" is next on his wishlist. I think there would pretty much be a 0% chance of him accepting that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by loyola I think we should schedule a Caribbean trip and play St-Kitts, St-Vincent, Antigua, and co. After that we should have an oceanian trip and play everyone except Australia and New Zealand............I think that if we play those teams once every 2 years we should be ok for our ranking. Dear Loyola, Your a chicken. Signed, Australia and New Zealand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by nolando Am I mistaken or were the rankings not what helped to form the groups for qualifying, and thus cooked our own goose?? The groups were set out according to ranking, so that the reason we had Guatemala in our group was becuase they were the poorly ranked fourth team in the group. We were a third level team (out of a four team group)when the groups were formed and now we are bound to be a fourth level team in future rounds of sixteen for Gold Cup, WCQ 2010, etc. Not quite. The top 2 teams in each group are those who made the Hex in 2000 (Honduras and CR in our group) the next two are those who didn't (us and Guatemala). Of course, since there is NO OTHER way of sorting teams, there were playoffs like Cuba-CR and Jamaica-Haiti. It'll happen again in 2008 (ugh, 2008!!!???) unless they review the system. This is how T&T got a favourable group: they were draw with Mexico (both hex in 2000) and with Barbados (lost in the playoff to St-Kitts and Nevis) and St-Vincent & Grenadines. The problem was 2 difficult groups (ours and US-Panama-Jamaica-ES) and one ridiculous group (Mexico, a horrendous T&T and Carribean minnows). Haiti and Cuba, two teams which only get stringer within CONCACAF, are shut out of the semis. If CONCACAF keeps the same system for 2008, we'll be in the exact same boat, being placed with 2 teams from the hex and another from the semis. It should weigh previous WCQ, GCs (hey, make them count for SOMETHING) AND world rankings when creating the groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Ian Kennett I have read several posts which suggest that Canada ought to rid itself of anybody who is over 30 and who will not figure in the next WCQ for 2010. This has merit only to a point. I believe strongly that one of our biggest problems is that we are ranked so low that no countires of consequence are willing to play us on the regular basis that we need. Consequently, our team does not develop, our rankings do not improve, and our team does not play quality friendlies, etc. etc. (Yes, we did play some in Europe awhile ago, but few and far between!) I think that the 2005 Gold Cup, assuming that we do not qualify for WC, be made a priority for the MNT, and that the very best possible team be gathered for that. We need to try to win or to do very well in that tournament so we can get another invite to the COPA and to other tournaments. If the best team includes Radzinksi, then by all means we should encourage him to play despite his age with respect to 2010 (I agree that Pesch has seen his day, so I am not completely blind to the fact that some guys are finished internationally). In short, we need to play enough good teams to increase those damn rankings so that teams wanting friendlies will approach us rather than us always having to go hat in hand to beg a game against the likes of Bermuda! In addition, this would give Yallop a chance to prove to us that he is the man for the job. Let's be sure to keep the strongest team around for any games we can get. Cheers! Bravo, Ian, I agree almost entirely. Except maybe on worrying about the rankings. The Gold Cup has to be a goal in and of itself, as right now it is the only competition we could actually win. Right now it is a five game tournament, of which the last three have to be won, though drawing and going through on penalties is also valid to lift the Cup. I don't think Gold Cup should just be viewed as minor for us, as the World Cup is unrealistic, it should not be on our priority list as it is above our threshold (even then a reasonable goal there should just be the HEX, meaning at least playing some top teams and being in there with a chance to make the Cup, seeing our guys playing at home in big, crucial matches vs. the States and Mexico.) I don't understand all this obsession for just being in the World Cup, which would be beautiful, emotional, like it was in 86, but in the end a very tough goal. It is like expecting a low level top flight team in a good league to win the league. Some clubs are great in the national cup competitions but rarely win the league (Bilbao has won the Cup 23 times, the league just a handful), so their expectations are different. They don't sit around with a pipe-dream, they think about staying in top flight, and maybe making a good Cup run, maybe qualifying for Europe (if UEFA is the example) every decade or so. Realistic goals, and goals that involve lifting a trophy to make us fans proud. We win Gold Cup, or even lose a final to an invited team, and we are invited to the Copa America, a fine showcase (apart from being great prep for playing in our region in WC qualifiers, getting players noticed by bigger clubs). And we also go to the Confederation Cup. Now that is a reasonable goal, and one that I, as a Canada fan, would be happy with. Qualifying for the WC is just icing on the cake, if one day we pull a surprise and things gel, like happens every now and then with a lesser club winning a good league, that should be taken as a gift from the gods. But putting that as our main priority is highly illusive. So I agree with Ian that we have to keep the block together, and that we need the experienced guys out there, as they are the leaders, they have the winning edge. Constant deflection of the present to a fantasy future is a serious psychological disorder in individual humans: so why do so many here want us to revel in such a state on the national team level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 After seeing our problems against CONCACAF teams both in 2000 and now, I think we need to emphasize playing these teams more often. Every summer we should play a couple of matches against Caribbean and Central American sides. During the winter months we should look to go on a tour to these countries using A-League players and our Europeans on break. Familiarity with the opposition will mean we are more comfortable against them in real competitions. The rankings will take care of themselves when we start making the hex, qualifying for the World Cup. So next summer we play will our best team at the Gold Cup (if we do not move out of our group, as looks likely). And the summer after that, we invite a couple of CONCACAF teams to play a tournament in Canada either before or after the World Cup. We can't take short-cuts. Success will come through experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloucester in FLA Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Let's not forget that rankings also play a role when it comes to our players qualifying for work permits abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcl_19 Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Gloucester in FLA Let's not forget that rankings also play a role when it comes to our players qualifying for work permits abroad. And also a role in selling the game to Canadian sports fans. lets face it.....we only had 1/6 of Commenwealth filled....that ain't right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Daniel Not quite. The top 2 teams in each group are those who made the Hex in 2000 (Honduras and CR in our group) the next two are those who didn't (us and Guatemala). Of course, since there is NO OTHER way of sorting teams, there were playoffs like Cuba-CR and Jamaica-Haiti. It'll happen again in 2008 (ugh, 2008!!!???) unless they review the system. This is how T&T got a favourable group: they were draw with Mexico (both hex in 2000) and with Barbados (lost in the playoff to St-Kitts and Nevis) and St-Vincent & Grenadines. The problem was 2 difficult groups (ours and US-Panama-Jamaica-ES) and one ridiculous group (Mexico, a horrendous T&T and Carribean minnows). Haiti and Cuba, two teams which only get stringer within CONCACAF, are shut out of the semis. If CONCACAF keeps the same system for 2008, we'll be in the exact same boat, being placed with 2 teams from the hex and another from the semis. It should weigh previous WCQ, GCs (hey, make them count for SOMETHING) AND world rankings when creating the groups. Oops, My Bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex M Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Dear Loyola, Your a chicken. Signed, Australia and New Zealand Rack Him. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isbrant Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 The average Canadian has no idea how the FIFA rankings are made and what they actually mean. Unless you are a follower of the sport, when you hear that the Canadian team is ranked 99 in the world you snicker and put soccer out of your mind. It is one of the things stopping people from embracing soccer as a professional sport. There has been a lot of talk about needing to change the soccer climate in Canada. One of the easiest ways of doing that is for the CSA to declare they are going to make the Canadian team much better when compared to the rest of the world. Set up a bunch of friendlies and tell Canada that with in the next 2 years (or what ever time frame is reasonable) Canada will be ranked amongst the top 50 in the world. Every time Canada jumps in the rankings, publicise it. Currently the media has the same mentality as the general public. They think soccer is a joke in Canada. In order to change that and get more support from the casual fan, their perceptions of the team need to change. Anyway, just my thoughts Devon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Iain and Jeffrey--it is interesting to see your argument, one that I certainly do not disagree with for the most part, but what strikes me most is what Jeffrey is suggesting quite explicitly, something that I hope we can have a full debate on. (Iain, I believe, is roughly getting at Jeffrey's point, too.) The gist of the idea is that we need to reform our short-term vision considerably from being a country whose first and only priority is qualifying for the World Cup, to a country who holds that goal as the ideal but who knows that we must take small steps before it is even a realistic one to pursue. Perhaps this was the error Sharpe made when he said "we are going to be all about getting to the World Cup." I do not think we should lower our ultimate goal of getting to the World Cup, but I think a new vision as how to get there in time is much needed. As most of you know, the French took roughly 10 years to start seeing the full benefits of their little trip to Brazil to reinvision French football. There are NO quick fixes here, and until we see this we will only set ourselves up for great disappointment and frustration. I'd like to hear what the rest of you think on this. Jeffrey posted his assessment on a different thread, and I recommend you check it out. We all agree that there are problems with the CSA, but sorting out real solutions is impossible if we do not become realistic about our program and form an excellent vision for the future based on this reality. Expecting Canada to breeze through our group is like expecting Japan to beat the Czechs, Belarus and the US in hockey. If we wanted to build Japanese hockey, we'd have a pretty good idea of what they need, and guess what, the national coach would be one of the last things to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2goeh Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 We love Canada soccer signed nobody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2goeh Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Even we can beat Canada signed, Antartica and the Falkan Islands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2goeh Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Even we can beat Canada signed Inverness Preschool sorry, just having fun... i only wish canada would kick some ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2goeh Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Can we play Canada too? signed, The Smurfs and Southpark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex M Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 We don't have any running water. Signed, 3rd world countries such as Brazil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2goeh Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Alex M We don't have any running water. Signed, 3rd world countries such as Brazil not bad but im canadian so that sucked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by way2goeh Can we play Canada too? signed, The Smurfs and Southpark Okay, moderators .... Endless BS like this is a waste of time... how many posts before he can make up a punchline? waytoblow, say something more concrete please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2goeh Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by redhat Okay, moderators .... Endless BS like this is a waste of time... how many posts before he can make up a punchline? waytoblow, say something more concrete please. cant you have a laugh? Its hard to digest how our team is doing. I would prefer to were going to germany signed Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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