Massive Attack Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 CONCACAF shame The horrible ending of the Canada-Honduras soccer game points to bigger problems throughout the region. Actually, given the soggy turf and the creeping air of impending doom, Canada and Honduras played a pretty good little soccer game the other night. Canada, having inexplicably face-planted against Guatemala in their first match of the World Cup qualifying semifinal round robin, really majorly needed a win. For most of the match, they got their chances, but Honduras kept fashioning dangerous counter-breaks. Pat Onstad came up with some nice stops guarding the Canadian goal, but here's that creeping sense of doom again. Understand, please. I watch soccer as a fan first, and a journalist second. Not only do I want Canada to qualify for World Cup 2006 in Germany, I want our lads to win it all. Yes, this is a road that will lead to certain disappointment. Such is a fan's lot, and I gleefully accept it. But disappointment is a beast with many variations. There's the inevitable kind, which has a lot to do with the fact that even if we have the guns to get there, we'll come up shooting blanks long before the dance is done. But then there's optional disappointment, a horrid state caused by appalling and completely unnecessary outside interference in our best, most honest effort. This is exactly what happened to Canada in this game. And frankly, I am seething. The gloom had lifted, you see. Canada went ahead 1-0 in the 83rd minute, when defender Jason deVos leapt high to meet a looping Iain Hume free kick, scoring decisively on a crafty one-bounce header. But then Canada's Ante Jazic, who I thought played quite well against Guatemala, served up the backpass of doom. Speedy Honduran opportunist David Suazo pounced, and raced away. Canadian defender Mark Watson, showing uncharacteristic speed, I thought, slid neatly across his path to block his way. Suazo went down, and referee Benito Archundia pointed fatally to the penalty spot. The problem? Watson never touched him. Never made any form of contact whatsoever. Charitably, Suazo might have slipped on the turf. Less charitably… well, it looked to both Craig Forrest and myself that the ungracious so-and-so was smirking. So it's a goal and it's 1-1. Ouch, but it happens. But it doesn't usually happen again. Back comes Canada. The ball is worked to impressive young goal poacher Olivier Occean, who slots it neatly into the net. Except the whistle blew. For a high, dangerous foot. Except, again, there was no contact. Doesn't necessarily have to be, I agree, but in fact, there was nothing dangerous at all. The Hondurans made a meal of it, and the ref sat down for all he could eat. Two horrid calls, back to back, and Canada settles for a draw in game they had to win. And did win, drat it! Two major problems here, and they're both deeply engrained in the way CONCACAF does business: 1) Central American national teams tend to be filled with players who take horrible dives and act like their enrite nervous system is being destroyed, even when they haven't been touched. There are rules against this, but… 2) CONCACAF referees call everything. I've grumbled about this before, but there is precious little art or subtlety to the way the international game is adjudicated over here. True artists of the fair call, the great Pierluigi Collina for example, do not exist in these parts. The worst part? These two nightmares feed off each other. The more the players dive, the more the refs call and card innocent opponents. The more the refs do that, the more the players dive. I'm not claiming Canada is completely innocent on either score, but our European-based players consistently get a better standard of justice on the pitch. Even conceding that Canada created some of their own trouble here (soft outing against Guatemala, truly terrible back pass from Jazic), our national team was flat-out robbed. And, just by the way, Archundia is a pretty experienced official. Well-schooled in the quick, tough Mexican league, he just finished a refereeing stint at the Olympics. This time, we can't point to his credentials and say "what was he doing here?" The guy's resume is legit. It's cause for despair, is what it is. Publicly, the team and the Canadian Soccer Association will keep quiet about all this. Canada will take its lumps, and hope for better things in the games to come. But I hope someone is raising holy blue heck behind the scenes. The behaviour of the Hondurans was appalling. Heck, they made a substitution right at the end, and the new player hopped onto the field! Practicing his hobbling? Letting the ref know what he looks like after being fouled? It's just such an uphill struggle. I want to find a way to complain about how awful this was, without sounding like the kind of pathetic, helpless ranter anyone who didn't actually see this fiasco is just going to tune out on principle. That may not be possible, so let me just put it like this: The overacting borders on cheating. The officiating, when it really mattered, was incompetent. Welcome to another long, dark night of CONCACAF qualifying. I don't even mind so much that Canada didn't ultimately get the win. But it frosts my windshield when a night of hard work and gritty determination is undone by deceit and blatant injustice. You had only to see the glee on deVos's face when he scored, and the stunned sorrow that replaced it when the final whistle blew. It was a night when Canada faced huge odds and a stern, difficult challenge. Canada succeeded. CONCACAF failed. http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/columnist.jsp?content=20040907_151853_4208 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 "It's cause for despair, is what it is. Publicly, the team and the Canadian Soccer Association will keep quiet about all this. Canada will take its lumps, and hope for better things in the games to come." Sadly Ben Knight is correct, and this is exactly what I have been saying. "Canada will quietly take it's lumps, hoping for better things." This isn't cause for despair, it's cause for outrage ! Only a complete fool would maintain the status-quo ! The odds are already stacked against Canada to qualify for the World Cup, coupled with corrupt officiating it is near impossible. The chance of Canada successfully qualifying now is very slim. What has changed for Canada for our upcoming matches ? Have any concessions been made to Canada for this outrage ? Of course not, because we let ourselves get pushed around ! Does Honduras care if this Mexican ref ever officiates another match ? Of course not, because they just stole 3 pts !(+1 for them,-2 for Canada). I'm not sure what is more of an outrage, corrupt officiating or Canada "quietly taking it's lumps, DREAMING of better things to come" ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstackho Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Thus far, I have found myself unable to comment on my feelings about this game on this forum. With solid articles like this, I'm glad I won't have to. Ben summed it up very well. My only differing opinion is that I feel that Suazo might have slipped, and not necessarily dived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 The problem is how these Honduras were playing (diving, simulation, whatever) and how the referees were NOT calling them. In other words, these "experienced" officials fell for the tricks even though they know damn well that's what they do. And yes Suazo grinned, as replays showed. It's scandalous, whichever way one wants to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massimo Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 quote:Originally posted by redhat And yes Suazo grinned, as replays showed. It's scandalous, whichever way one wants to look at it. Now you're just adding gas to my fire!!! I think it was better I didn' know that. Got to leave now, and smash something:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 quote:Originally posted by massimo Now you're just adding gas to my fire!!! I think it was better I didn' know that. Got to leave now, and smash something:( yes, I feel the same. Where do you live? We should hook up and do some damage. Kudos to Ben Knight on an excellent, measured, and heartfelt article. This is our plight in CONCACAF. Perhaps we should see if we can join another federation, perhaps the ones the stinking Aussies play in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 That is Ben's best column ever! Goes to show how we unite together in the face of adversity. Something good is gonna come from all this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 quote:Originally posted by sstackho Thus far, I have found myself unable to comment on my feelings about this game on this forum. With solid articles like this, I'm glad I won't have to. I feel that Suazo might have slipped, and not necessarily dived. The problem is that no one else in the mainstream media is writing these kind of articles therefore who is going to notice. If these things happened in most other countries it would be front page news and the the outcry would make it impossible for anyone else outside to not notice. Including the folks in the luxury offices in Zurich. But in Canada? Well it would appear that the largest newspaper didn't bother to do a write up, there was no evidence of a of any other significant national media presence at the game, and there were less than 10K fans present. So people can get away with these things much more easily under these conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 If you are referring to the Toronto Star, there was a write-up of the match, which was basically an extended version of the CP article. The headlines said something like "Two Blown Calls Cost Canada" or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Free kick The problem is that no one else in the mainstream media is writing these kind of articles therefore who is going to notice. If these things happened in most other countries it would be front page news and the the outcry would make it impossible for anyone else outside to not notice. Including the folks in the luxury offices in Zurich. Exactly my point ! Nothing changes, status-quo, and Canada is robbed again (and will be in the future !). Now if Canada was to launch a loud protest and publicly state that they would disband their A-team (thus upsetting Honduras, as we would be essentially gifting points to their opponents) unless something is done to rectify the injustice, would that make international and national headlines ? Of course it would ! The bad calls would be shown throughout the region. The heat would suddenly be on FIFA and CONCACAF to address this continuing farce. Would concessions be made to Canada ? Probably ! We would never be awarded 3 pts, but we could have ref's from outside our region at the very least. It would also make every future ref think twice about screwing us. Not one person who has disagreed with this plan has offered a single solution to rectify this problem. Just people stumbling in denial thinking we will still qualify, despite the fact that the chance is very remote. This situation remotely reminds me (off on a tangent !) of the trouble with the fisheries and the Turbot War with Portugal and Spain. Canada was against a rock and a hard place with the EU, so Brian Tobin (then Premier of Newfoundland) recognized that Canada would have to take bold action to break the status-quo cycle of abuse. It was a major gamble, but it paid off for Canada. As it turned out, cracks formed in the EU with British fisherman across Britian and Ireland flying the Maple Leaf in support of Canada (someone from T&T told me they were robbed by Haiti in 1973 for a trip to the World Cup, get the picture). There was no diplomatic solution (initially) and the situation took bold action for people to seriously look at the problem. While different in many respects, the broad parrallels of action/in-action are similar. Without drastic action the status-quo remains and Canada will continue to be screwed, thus diminishing our already slim chance of future qualification for the World Cup. If it means sacrificing our very remote chance of qualification this time round, to reduce the chance of future 'criminal action' I'm all for it. With some shrewd, bold diplomacy, Canada would risk little and greatly diminish any future corrupt officiating, which in turn would greatly enhance future (and current) qualification for the World Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury Now if Canada was to launch a loud protest and publicly state that they would disband their A-team (thus upsetting Honduras, as we would be essentially gifting points to their opponents) unless something is done to rectify the injustice, would that make international and national headlines ? Of course it would ! Without drastic action the status-quo remains and Canada will continue to be screwed, thus diminishing our already slim chance of future qualification for the World Cup. I agree with you. But we really got to think before anything. If we pull out, this would make Honduras and Guatemala (and Mexico and the USA and T&T) very happy. We'd get suspended by CONCACAF, and probably FIFA. This could jeopardize the U20 tournament in 2007. Maybe even the women's teams, because they penalize the association. The best we could do is protest vigorously and publicly, and get OUR media to provide more exposure to our disadvantaged team. Then cheer on our team (if not the CSA) because they deserve the support and respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 quote:Archundia is a pretty experienced official. Well-schooled in the quick, tough Mexican league, he just finished a refereeing stint at the Olympics. This time, we can't point to his credentials and say "what was he doing here?" The guy's resume is legit. I do not agree with the above as quoted from an article in an earlier post. It is not relevant in this case whether Archundia refereed at the Olympics or whether his resume is legit and not fabricated. A referee is not supposed to influence the result of a game. His officiating was the result of precisely lack of experience at even this level and lack of exposure to European officiating (where Canadian players come from). For an official appointed to do one of these games, there is a lot of preparation that goes on. The least of which is familiarizing with the background of the teams and the expected level of intensity for the game. The early yellow card given to DeRosario was not so much because of him bouncing the ball, that in itself is trivial considering that the referee screwed up the direction of the free kick, but the card was more following protocols that referees of lower level use to impose their authority early in the game. At this level if the referee does not feel confident and he needs to resort to these cheap shots, then he should not be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 quote:Originally posted by redhat If we pull out, this would make Honduras and Guatemala (and Mexico and the USA and T&T) very happy. We'd get suspended by CONCACAF, and probably FIFA. This could jeopardize the U20 tournament in 2007. Maybe even the women's teams, because they penalize the association. If we send our U-20 team, then in fact we haven't pulled out. We are simply treating the qualifying tournament with the respect it is due. And no, I don't think that will make Honduras happy, as it will basically gift their oppostion points. If we do nothing substantial, it guarantees that this will happen again and again. We have little to lose at this point, so now is the time. Complaining about it after we are mathematically eliminated is too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgs Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 We got screwed, no doubt about it. But there is something to be said for sticking it out. The best way to make a point is to go out and win in spite the poor refereeing. Nobody usually cares about the sore loser, which i am sure would be the reaction if we were to "protest" by either pulling out or sending under qualified players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 CONCACAF having soccer officials in the olympics has nothing to do with merit, and everything to do with the normal politics of sport. Receiving the honour of representing CONCACAF at the olympics is also as much a political decision as it is one based on merit. This again isn't so unusual either. So it shouldn't necessarily qualify any particular ref. as being capable of commanding a WCQ match. And as for protests, hum-bugging, tantrums and fits, I think that's something that is going to be left for (as has been suggested) behind the scenes. The CSA hierarchy currently in place has spent it's entire existance in Blatters camp. And so, have been good soilders to his evil little toadie, Jack Warner. The CSA will not rock Warner's apple cart. Might sulk a little. Bitch a little to the domestic press (which may as well be barking at the moon). But don't expect Andy Sharpe to vent in the latin press about how Canada feels they've been jobbed by an anti-english CA conspiracy and wait for the fines to come crashing down. Sure that would be what normaly happens. And sure it would attract a microscope to the officiating at Canada's next couple of matchs. But it's not going to happen. Not a bloody chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokanne Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Wait until we see what happens after this game. If bad things happen send the u21 team for the rest of the games except for the Honduras one! This will piss off Honduras so much! This will teach teams to dive against canada and probably piss off CONCACAF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 haha, (except against honduras) that is a great idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_Yank Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Unfortunatly that's life in concacaf qualifiers. Last time around the US was robbed in their first two semi-final round matches. We were up 1-0 against Guatemala. In the 88th minute Carlos Ruiz slides in studs up and takes out Kasey Keller (who already had control of the ball). NO CALL!!!!!! Ruiz was already carring a yellow card. Should have been an automatic red. 2 mintues later he scored the tying goal. Next game down in Costa Rica we're tied 1-1 and Pendergast calls a PK on on Greg Berhalter "handball". Unless Greg grew an arm out of his head no way is that a handball. We lose 2-1. We still recovered and the rest is history so all is not lost for Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_Yank Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 quote:Originally posted by redhat I agree with you. But we really got to think before anything. If we pull out, this would make Honduras and Guatemala (and Mexico and the USA and T&T) very happy. We'd get suspended by CONCACAF, and probably FIFA. This could jeopardize the U20 tournament in 2007. Maybe even the women's teams, because they penalize the association. The best we could do is protest vigorously and publicly, and get OUR media to provide more exposure to our disadvantaged team. Then cheer on our team (if not the CSA) because they deserve the support and respect. Why would it make the US very happy if Canada pulled out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Crazy_Yank Why would it make the US very happy if Canada pulled out? One less opponent to worry about! More happiness for Honduras, Guatemala, T&T, Mexico, etc. than the US, though. Any US-Canada game would be great because it would not include the frequent diving and cry-baby stuff you'd get from some of our opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Crazy_Yank Unfortunatly that's life in concacaf qualifiers. Last time around the US was robbed in their first two semi-final round matches. We were up 1-0 against Guatemala. In the 88th minute Carlos Ruiz slides in studs up and takes out Kasey Keller (who already had control of the ball). NO CALL!!!!!! Ruiz was already carring a yellow card. Should have been an automatic red. 2 mintues later he scored the tying goal. Next game down in Costa Rica we're tied 1-1 and Pendergast calls a PK on on Greg Berhalter "handball". Unless Greg grew an arm out of his head no way is that a handball. We lose 2-1. We still recovered and the rest is history so all is not lost for Canada. Thanks for the tiny bit of hope and the commiseration. It may be tough to beat you guys, but at least we don't see the silly and cheap antics we see from some of the CONCACAF teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 quote:Originally posted by redhat Any US-Canada game would be great because it would not include the frequent diving and cry-baby stuff you'd get from some of our opponents. Only if Landon Donovan isn't playing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Crazy_Yank Who mentioned the US, we aren't even playing them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury Who mentioned the US, we aren't even playing them ? I did unfortunately. Assuming if, excuse the pun, it was a level playing field, we would have gone through to the next round. I just lumped all our opponents together in one category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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