Canada will never be taken seriously until ...

[strobe_z]

man.. we're starting to get quite the Korean contingent here. Nutmeg, Soju, Blue and White Army for a while...

Nutmeg, whatcha doing in Korea?

I was there during the Gold Cup 2000 and got to turn a roadside noodle house in Gangwon Province into Canada Central during the Canada/Colombia final!

Cheers boys!

[elricko]

nutmeg, I have been saying exactly the same thing as you for over 30 years. Canada is the laughing stock of the world, where international sport is concerned, I have lived in several countries, and you have to blame the media to a very large extent. They ignored soccer for years, refused to promote it and the general sports fans were deliberately kept in the dark. The press still to this day, mis-print the tables and results,errors in pre-match announcements are are so very predictable and the TV stations are now inserting commercials during games. How the hell is the wanna-be-soccer-fan supposed to treat the media with respect when the media disrespect the "World's Beautiful Game"

[elricko]

I also would like to say, that the radio stations in general are an abomination regarding soccer, and no matter when one calls Dan Russel on CKNW here in Vancouver on ANY night of the year, the main topic for these oh-so-narrow thinking sports fans is Hockey ( usually about" I -can't wait-to-get-out-of-Vancouver Mr. Bertuzzi"!). Bryan Hall on an Edmonton radio station, and Neil McCrea on CKNW are SO anti soccer , and can always be relied upon to slam the sport whenever possible.

[Bertuzzi44]

quote:Originally posted by Current Champ

Welcome Dude

...don't worry if people swear at you or give you grief (he's named Bertuzzi for christ's sake BAN HIM FOREVER!!!) and be more positive, because WE all know the downfalls of Canadian Soccer.

whats wrong with what I said? They are all valid points. Plus, what nutmeg was saying was far more negative then my response.

idiot.

[Former Champ]

quote:Originally posted by Bertuzzi44

whats wrong with what I said? They are all valid points. Plus, what nutmeg was saying was far more negative then my response.

idiot.

Dude, I'm really SORRY, as that was just a cheap shot a Todd Bertuzzi the Hockey player and never at all meant to refer to yourself or anything you've said!!!!! I mostly agree with you and just wanted to welcome a newbie. I totally didn't write that ban part right.

So ya... I guess I'm an idiot...

Cheers Burtuzzi44!!!!!

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

Hey Nutmeg, there is no shame in being Canadian. We like Hockey, its part of who we are as a country. There are a lot of other things we do or don't do that are a bit out of step with most of the world, but that is part of what makes us who we are. For example, we don't rabidly deny the presence of homosexuals in our country nor are we hopelessly xenophobic: two of the more intriging qualitites of the hosts of the last world cup.

Soccer, in Canada, is higher up in the sporting conscience than it is in the US. Yet the US does pretty well. The difference? Well a pool of player much bigger than we have and a budget 4 time ours. We, also have to use that budget to fund a seiers of youth teams and womens team at at least 3 levels. Something, BTW, most asia countries - and countries who place soccer high up on a pedastal choose not to do with anything more than the minimum.

Our results are our results. Against Guatemala we played poorly and lost, Against Honduras, allegedly one of the top teams in our confederation, we deserved a clear two goal win and were screwed over. **** happens.

I think that you have been in Asia to long if you are making remarks like...

...as in Canada we are all entitled to a point of view and they have been wide and varied. Many of us routinely criticize the national team, the csa and the play of players. Yallop has his critics and his supporters. You need to look a little deeper and apply a little more thought to your evaluation. Perhaps you've been too long in a homogenous culture and can't deal with shades of gray in addition to black and white? There is not one poster on this board who consistently posts thoughts view or observations that are consistently similar to mine. The same can be said of virtutally every other poster on this board. We are all unique individuals with a vafriety of perspectives. You blanket genralization is both offensive and remarkably superficial.

You comments on the WC of Hockey also display a remarkable pomposity and perhaps just a little self loathing. Its the game we play. We play it against other nations, big and small. Not popular where the sun shines hot? Well too bad, Nothing we can do about it. It means something to us, as Canadians. Hockey is a part of our national identity. The World Cup created specifically so we can have bragging rights? Please, how pathetic is that. Sorry that the subtlties of the Canadian national identity are lost on you. Perhaps one day we will have a nice simple identity like that of the US or Korea in which there is lots of black and white and everything is spelled out in simple terms. How ironic that someone residing in a nation that places such importance on appearances and that is well know in the international community for cheating to achieve success in sports - use the World Cup and the 10 white elephants as an example of the former, and the world cup and Seoul Olympics as an example of the latter - should make an accusation like that.

At the end of the day, who cares if our football is a laughing stock? Do you seriously think that I give a dman whether the Norwegians, Koreans or Hondurans respect our football? See Nutmeg, I am a fan of the game, and I am a Canadian. Circumstances are what they are. I can't bring myself to hate this wonderful country, nor can I ignore the fact that our overall appraoch to the world and life in general makes us a positive influence on the world. I supose if we were to knife a referee one time, we wouldn't get screwed in our own stadium so often. But really, that is not what Canada is about.

You have my sympathies. You have displayed the common Korean (and occasional canadian) trait of sweeping generalization. Perhaps a little less mayonaise on your pizza and an urgent call home for a copy of a Grey Cup - any Grey Cup - will help you regain some perspective.

Your points - at least the ones that are not gibberish about hockey and the overall world perception of Canada as a sporting nation -are valid. Canadian soccer does need more funding, sponsorship and overall respect. We will not get to a world cup unless we can afford to prepare properly. The lack of a proper facitlity is an embarassment, particulalry Commonwealth this last Saturday.

But really, the bottom line is that we deserved all three points on Saturday and the level of talent of our players is such that canada gets better the more games it plays - as in, we could get to the hex and world cup - if we don't get screwed. Properly prepared - something that rarely happens - we are as good as any team in CONCACAF. But soccer is a team game where fitness, cohesion and team play can regularly beat superior talent - look at the US and Korea in WC 2002 for examples.

Gordon, buddy, ****ing well in lad!! It was a pleasure meeting you in Edmonton and an extra-pleausure to read this post. I couldn't improve on it, and your take on what I consider a healthy and realistic Canadian nationalism is spot on and frickin' refreshing.

The Beaver

[The Beaver]

And one more thing: Yes, the CSA could do better, but let's be bloody honest. Does Brazil enjoy the success they do simply because their federal association is so damn well organized? Hell, ask that question of any successful footballing world power. Or, to put it in a Canadian context, what makes ours the most powerful hockey nation of all time? (the Russians are pretty damn good, too). Sure, Hockey Canada plays a role, but its role is primarily (practically solely) at the youth, development level. What makes us a success is the vision and the system that takes young players and develops them from 15 - 16 years until they are drafted to the NHL. If we were to use the same very successful Canadian model in soccer, this is how it would look, more or less:

Ages 1 - 14ish -- Youth development, skill training, primarily adminstered by local associations under the larger vision and aegis of the federal body, in this case the CSA

14 - 18ish -- Pre-professional development, administered almost entirely by junior affiliates of existing professional clubs.

18 -- 42(??) -- Professional career, administered by professional teams, either top tier or farm teams etc.

So, when you look at this model for hockey and compare it to what we have for soccer, you quickly see how vital a domestic (or continental) league is for us. The CSA may set the general course, but their primary role is to throw tournaments and run youth programs. When a player with real promise hits 15 or so, they have very few good options in this country.

All this to say that we can actually take from hockey rather than try to eradicate its "insidious impact" on football and our cultural conscience. But my dear Nutmeg, a dose of reality is needed.

Oh, and by the way, Korea WAS something of a sad joke in the last world cup. I'm sure many will disagree, but many footballing fans did not take Korea or its fans particularly seriously, and if it wasn't for a couple of choice referees, I doubt they'd have had the success they did. Cheers, mate.

[pablo]

Correct me if I am wrong, but alot more kids play soccer than hockey in Canada. So why does soccer continue to be under funded? Most of our mens nat games have very weak promotion. And they got one of our, if not the best player on our team flying in regular class. Its a fcuking joke. I will say this again, the csa members has to be fired. I'll put money on it that none of the members on the csa commitee fly in regular class. ever! Sports in general, other than hockey is highly underfunded in Canada. Thats why we suck in almost everything. If they would put our tax money to something usefull (instead of the government of Canada stealing it, or giving it to thier friends false businesses) maybe we might be able to start building professional sports facilities like other countries.

(for starters in Ontario, we have no professional swimming facility, soccer stadium or track and field stadium and so on and so on. yet we have the highest population in canada, the financial back bone of Canada and pay the most taxes.) It is bullshyt, but we as Canadians are far too passive. So it will carry on untill we as Canadians pressure them into better standards in Canada. Lets face,[}] we get ripped off far too much.

[Dante79]

quote:Originally posted by nutmeg

Hi everyone,

I've followed this board for some time now, but have refrained from posting, mostly to get a feel for the nature of the board. From what I've seen, especially over the past few days after the Honduras debacle, posters on this board range from rabid, borderline racist freaks to the more moderate, level headed sort. It would seem that any sort of criticism directed against the MNT, which does not even resemble flame bait, is greeted with jingoistic venom I thought was limited to our neigbours south of the border.

I am an expat Canadian who has lived abroad for 8 years here in Asia. I was lucky enough to be here for the 2002 WC and attend half a dozen or so matches. I work with and socialize with expats from all over the globe, people who are the most footbal mad sort imaginable. And you know what?

Our football side is a laughing stock. Period.

We have absolutely NO international sporting credibility. Now, don't misunderstand me. I am a patroitic Canadian football fan first and foremost. It is my dream to see Canada qualify for ther WC. But, sadly, that will never happen until our efforts in sport extend beyond the hockey rink.

Let's face it; hockey, as much as it is a national passion, is a niche sport, played by only a handful of countries, much like cricket or rugby. The Hockey WC is a Mickey Mouse tournament, consisting of only eight teams, specifically designed so that we can have bragging rights about SOMETHING, ANYTHING sport related.

Football, on the other end, is played by everyone. If half as much private funding went into our football side as into ice hockey, our MNT might be a different story. But until the myopic navel gazing in our country ends vis-a-vis a little black rubber disc, our MNT will never been taken seriously, on any level.

I mean, come on. We have no national football pitch. That is an absolute farce. 10,000 people for WCQ, of that importance? Again, farce. I wholeheardtedly salute all the folks who attended that match; if I had been in Canada, I would have busted my ass to go. Unfortunately, the MNT has to play fifth fiddle to the ice hockey, baseball, CFL, NBA, NASCAR and all the other North American based sport that comes before it.

This is not a trolling post, nor is it flame bait. These are the observations of someone who has been an observer for a long time. If I've offended anyone, I apologize, but I think it's important for those who are still in Canada to understand what it's like to be looking in, on the other side. I will venture that those who take offense to this post will realize how close to the bone it cuts.

Regards,

nutmeg

hockey SUX and its a MICKEY MOUSE SPORT

[Moosehead]

I don't think Nutmeg was saying how great Korea is and how crap Canada is he was just stating on a global level a lot of countries don't pay attention to hockey and outside hockey we don't have much international success in Sport.

Yes, the CSA could do better, but let's be bloody honest. Does Brazil enjoy the success they do simply because their federal association is so damn well organized?

Beaver, were not asking for organization just compassion. They haven't been able to organize a National Open Cup despite promises of that. How difficult or costly is that?, the CPSL is almost half way there. There website is mediocre with errors and marginally interesting news releases. They don't pay for business class for the players during a crucial world cup qualifying campaign. All you get are excuses from Mr. Pipe such as well we don't have a 40 million budget like the USA, but its even the small things that we could afford that are not being done right or at all, before talking pro league, stadia etc. He must spend his time thinking of exucses rather than trying to improve Canadian soccer when there are a lot of small things that could be done that wouldn't cost that much money.

[JayWay]

Well said, Gordon. Amen!

[nutmeg]

Gordon,

A most heartfelt and sincere thanks for your sage, profound insights. You'll allow me, nonetheless, to address a few of your points.

I have no shame in being Canadian. As I mentioned in my original post, I am a patriotic Canadian sport fan first and foremost. I also have no sense of self-loathing you describe; as a matter of fact, living outside the country for an extended period of time has allowed me to gain a perspective of ourselves that not many have an opportunity to see, and that perspective affords me the chance to truly appreciate what it means to be from Canada. Nowhere in my original post will you find me expressing hatred for my own country.

I have met many people like you in my time abroad, Gordon. People who at the soonest opportunity will climb aboard their enlightened soap boxes and preach to the masses about cultural homogenity, xenophobia, linear thinking, corruption and superficiality. People who through their own sense of hubris and self-aggrandizement have come to see themselves as omniscient oracles of wisdom, generously passing on their insights to how the cultural inequities of the world might be rectified. People whose own pompous self-righteousness grows and festers as they realize how big the world is, and how ill-equiped they are to accept it.

You seem to have a good knowledge of Korea and Koreans. Hell, I'll wager you may have even lived here for a time, and I'll wager that time was extremely short. I'll wager in that short time, you would get around with your expat drinking buddies and piously pontificate to anyone who would listen how Korea is backwards. In that short time, you may have thought you had it all figured out, and at the soonest drop of a hat would be eager to tell anyone who would listen about it. You are a walking, talking cliche. Sadly, people like yourself, more often than not, are guilty of the same "atrocities" you lambaste Koreans for: sweeping generalizations (rabid denial of homosexuality), everything spelled out in black and white, etc. That is what is truly ironic.

You might not care if our football side is an international pissing pot, but I do. I want to see us qualify for the WC. I want to stand in a stadium in Hamburg or Dresden or Berlin or Stuttgart and hear our anthem being played, win or lose. I want to sit in a pub and proundly wear my Candian football top, mix with people from all over the globe and talk football. I want people to understand that some Canadians, albiet a very small few, feel as passionately about football as people from Brazil, France or England.

I don't need your sympathy, Gordon. Thanks for the sentiments anyway. You, on the other hand, must feel a great deal better now that you have gotten all that off your chest. Don't you?

I'll be thinking of you the next time I slather mayo all over my pizza.

Regards,

nutmeg

[Moosehead]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

Well said, Gordon. Amen!

Well what, its great Canada is a tolerant country, I like that, but that doesn't mean we can't do both, succeed and win at sport and be tolerant at the same time. Norway, I believe does both. I want to win, I don't understand liking 2nd place. That's why I am proud of our hockey. We don't have the financial resources of the Americans in soccer, but we can do better with what we do have.

[Gordon]

See 'meg, you still don't get it. Indeed, you are now arrogant enough to try generalize me into a "type". That is your problem Nutmeg, you are too lazy to do your research and to think before you generalize. You think you "know" my Korean experiences based on one post. Just as you think you "know" what this board is about without having done anything more than a cursory glance. Were you offended by the sweeping generalizations about you? The sweeping generalizations about Korea? How about the broad references to cheating? Have you figured this one out yet Nutmeg?

Listen, I'll give you a little life lesson I learned some time ago: don't assume that you know what anyone's motives are because you will usually be wrong.

I am not sure that you are getting yet, so I will try to be clearer: If you come onto this board, or any other board in an arrogant and condescending way, you will get it back. If I am feeling cranky, as I am now, I will be the one to do it. If I am in a good mood - which is most of the time, I'll ignore it and someone else will.

Would it shake your little world to the foundations if I told you I had a Korean wife, who was descended from the Kings of Silla? Would you be forced to re-evaluate your thinking on your pegging of me if I told you that I not only know the meaning of the duck in the Korean traditional wedding cerimony but that I have actually held the duck during said cerimony? Well, It's actually my best friend - a 20 year resident of Korea who has the wife descended from Silla Kings, but I did do the duck part.

In any event, I think you have your head up your ass on everything you have said about the World Cup of Hockey, about Canada's sporting reputation internationally and I know you have your head up your ass about this board. Hey, but that's just my opinion, and I really don't think you are a self loathing Canadian, just one talking out of his ass - except for your comments on the relative state of Canada's soccer scene,as I think you are more or less correct on that.

If you did a poll, you'd discover that many of the posters have spent considerable time living abroad - myself included -many are immigrants and many have never spent much time outside of Canada. You would discover that there are as many opinions as there are posters and that only trolls are blasted for being negative about the national team, or the coach, or the players. And when it come to the CSA, even trolls are applauded when they criticize. Go read the Guatemala threads, you night find them instructive.

It would be somewhat like me coming to Korea and saying that the Korean bronze medalist in the men's all round didn't deserve the gold because he was badly outperformed by the american. I doubt that I'd be meet with understanding and rightfully so.

And as a final word: you don't know me, any more than I know you. So keep it to your opinion about football and we will get along just fine. But if you want to keep banging away, worry not, sooner or later I'll get bored and you can claim victory. And mayonaise on Pizza is just plain wrong. All of my Korean acquaintancs agree with that, BTW.

[Cheeta]

No tigers?

[elricko]

I lived in Australia, where soccer is most certainly NOT the nation's No. 1 sport, and their national team is struggling ( but still about 40 rankings above Canada), BUT do Oz get taken seriously in the world of international sport,,you bet they do!! The Aussies have a passion about many sports, not confining themselves to one "iffy" ice-capade. They do so very well at swimming, athletics, tennis, field-hockey,golf to name but a few, Oh yes , their population is approx 18,000,000, and their main sport is Aussie Rules that other countries do not participate in!!!!! That surely counteracts so much of the sheer piffle spouted on this forum.

[Jeremy Loome]

Yowch, Gordon 1, Nutmeg 0

[argh1]

I don't understand how we as Canadians identifing with hockey has anything to do with our lack of success in soccer ? I also feel that by keeping Canadian soccer true to the view of Euro snobs only holds back soccer from becoming Canadian . Untill soccer becomes a true Canadian sport it ain't goin' no-where .

But yet we have to get over the colonialist view that we can't change anything and stay true to the game as seen by a bunch of ole country elitists .

This is Canada , we follow some sports , we don't follow others .

We view sports as a pastime , a leisure activity. This is a good thing IMO 'cuz besides getting puffy chested 'bout the odd sporting success . Canadian sporting successes never paid my mortgage , paid for the kids tuition , or bought chunky peanut butter and box of Morses tea in this household.

Ahhhhh, I can't find the word "piffle" in my Canajun dictionary ( humour )

[nutmeg]

Ok, Gordon. I wave the white flag. You win. Congratulations, big guy. Can we make up and be friends now?

On a completely unrelated topic, I put forward these for contemplation:

self-right¡¤eous (slfrchs)

adj.

1. Piously sure of one's own righteousness; moralistic.

2. Exhibiting pious self-assurance: self-righteous remarks.

gas¡¤bag ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gsbg)

n.

1. An expansible bag for holding gas.

2. Slang. One given to empty or boastful talk.

Mmmmmm. Mayo on pizza. Don't knock it 'til ya tried it.

[Bertuzzi44]

quote:Originally posted by Current Champ

Dude, I'm really SORRY, as that was just a cheap shot a Todd Bertuzzi the Hockey player and never at all meant to refer to yourself or anything you've said!!!!! I mostly agree with you and just wanted to welcome a newbie. I totally didn't write that ban part right.

So ya... I guess I'm an idiot...

Cheers Burtuzzi44!!!!!

no problem champ, heh... pretty funny now that I think about it![8D]

[JayWay]

quote:Originally posted by Moosehead

Well what, its great Canada is a tolerant country, I like that, but that doesn't mean we can't do both, succeed and win at sport and be tolerant at the same time. Norway, I believe does both. I want to win, I don't understand liking 2nd place. That's why I am proud of our hockey. We don't have the financial resources of the Americans in soccer, but we can do better with what we do have.

You've lost me, Moosehead. What do you see as the relationship between our tolerance and our lack of sporting prowess on the international scene? Is it possible you've confused tolerance with apathy?

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by Moosehead

I don't think Nutmeg was saying how great Korea is and how crap Canada is he was just stating on a global level a lot of countries don't pay attention to hockey and outside hockey we don't have much international success in Sport.

Yes, the CSA could do better, but let's be bloody honest. Does Brazil enjoy the success they do simply because their federal association is so damn well organized?

Beaver, were not asking for organization just compassion. They haven't been able to organize a National Open Cup despite promises of that. How difficult or costly is that?, the CPSL is almost half way there. There website is mediocre with errors and marginally interesting news releases. They don't pay for business class for the players during a crucial world cup qualifying campaign. All you get are excuses from Mr. Pipe such as well we don't have a 40 million budget like the USA, but its even the small things that we could afford that are not being done right or at all, before talking pro league, stadia etc. He must spend his time thinking of exucses rather than trying to improve Canadian soccer when there are a lot of small things that could be done that wouldn't cost that much money.

Moosehead, I see what you are saying, and I don't disagree, but do not tell me that we need compassion over organization from the CSA when you go on to list all these "organizational" things they can do to improve things. My gut tells me that the CSA is probably trying to do too much, but only because we do not have a pro-league that will properly develop our best players from the ages of 15 onwards. The CSA should not be playing that role, nor should they be the ones trying to build a pro league--but if they do not push for it, who will? The CSA should focus on the broader vision of Canadian soccer, especially at the grassroots level, and also at the international level when it comes to providing our teams with quality flights and training facilities etc etc.

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by elricko

I lived in Australia, where soccer is most certainly NOT the nation's No. 1 sport, and their national team is struggling ( but still about 40 rankings above Canada), BUT do Oz get taken seriously in the world of international sport,,you bet they do!! The Aussies have a passion about many sports, not confining themselves to one "iffy" ice-capade. They do so very well at swimming, athletics, tennis, field-hockey,golf to name but a few, Oh yes , their population is approx 18,000,000, and their main sport is Aussie Rules that other countries do not participate in!!!!! That surely counteracts so much of the sheer piffle spouted on this forum.

Dude, I honestly cannot understand your argument, especially in dissing the so-called "sheer piffle spouted on this forum." Your argument doesn't make sense. I think I know what you're getting at, but cannot fathom good gobs of it. (And it isn't a case that I disagree with all that you say, either. You have some good points, I think. Perhaps you could make your argument clearer?

A couple of quick points:

1) It is a cheap tactic to call hockey an "iffy" ice-capade, though to be honest I have no real sense of what that means, except that it is clearly not a compliment. Hockey is a valid sport, just like Aussie rules and cricket and auto-racing. You don't have to like it, but don't chop it down because it isn't soccer.

2) Most nations are know for one or two key sports. A handful are known for exceling in multiple sports, but these are rare. The mighty Aussies have some excellent sports programs and get good results in the pool and on the rugby field, but their international celebrity is not as impressive as you seem to think. They WERE great golfers but have not produced the massive talents they've done in the past. They do well at the summer Olympics, but they are a summer nation. They stink at the winter Olympics, but with all their Canadian coaches, they'll surely get better. If you think of any nation in the world, you'd probably come up with one or two, maybe three key sports that they are known for. Sweden? Tennis and hockey, though they have good soccer sides. The Czechs, much the same, actually. New Zealand: Rugby and the Lord of the Rings (is that a sport); Cuba: boxing primarily, but baseball, too. Spain: soccer, cycling, bullfighting([]) etc etc

So, is it so bad that Canada is known for: hockey and curling? Just because this is how others SEE us, does not mean we cannot become an excellent soccer nation. It is more about how we decide to see ourselves, and how we decide to develop soccer in this country.

There is no need for us to kill or attack hockey or its culture in order to succeed internationally in soccer. In fact, it would be a silly waste of time and resources. Nutmeg, we need to think of how to build soccer, not kill hockey, but like a couple of wise voyageurs have stated, we must do it according to our values and temprament and innate style, and NOT according to now-devested former Imperial Euro powers. We need to say, "feck how the world sees us as a sporting nation, and apply our Canuck-style (Hume) to the beautiful game. Certainly we can learn from other nations--even Korea and Australia--but when the French went to Brazil for answers to how they can revive the French game, they did NOT simply try to become Brazilian. They took what they needed from Brazil to improve their French style.

Good debate, lads. [8D]

[elricko]

Hockey can never be classified as a legitimate sport, when the nonsense of fighting is continually allowed, it is regarded by many nations as "MIckey Mouse", and rightly so. To see two huge behemoths on ice plugging at each other, grabbbing , pulling, punching ,hooking constantly makes a mockery of the word "Sport", add to that the absolutely disgusting behaviour of Bertuzzi ,McSorley et al--don't even try to tell me this is sport---Canada had higher sporting aspirations when they dominated the world of synchronised swimming!!!

[Grasshopper]

It's been a great thread. I just hope that I never run afoul of Gordon on here.

elricko, there are many things that happen in organized sport that make a mockery of the word 'sport'; hockey isn't unique in this way. Think of performance enhancing drugs in many sports. Think of any sport in which deceiving a referee is rewarded. Think of the politics of sports influencing judges. Now start making a list of the sports that don't in some way fall under one of those categories. It's pretty damn short and I bet the sports on the list don't draw much in the way of fan support.

BTW, fighting isn't allowed in IIHF hockey or Olympic hockey. Outside the NHL, has it just been re-legitimized?

Blair

quote:Originally posted by elricko

Hockey can never be classified as a legitimate sport, when the nonsense of fighting is continually allowed, it is regarded by many nations as "MIckey Mouse", and rightly so. To see two huge behemoths on ice plugging at each other, grabbbing , pulling, punching ,hooking constantly makes a mockery of the word "Sport", add to that the absolutely disgusting behaviour of Bertuzzi ,McSorley et al--don't even try to tell me this is sport---Canada had higher sporting aspirations when they dominated the world of synchronised swimming!!!