Luis_Rancagua Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Guys, these pathetic performances will continue as long as twits such as Kevan Pipe, Andy Sharpe, Frank Yallop continue to be part of the CSA. What we need here is more than international friendlies for the MNT, but serious reforms that will change the whole structure of the CSA. For instance: pro-league in Canada, open-cup tournament, amalgamation of the provincial leagues, women's league, etc... without these crucial elements of reform, the Canadian soccer program will not go anywhere. It has been now 16 years that Pipe has been at the CSA, and I truly feel that the time has come for him to go. We need fresh blood to lead the CSA into something more effective than the crap we presently have with Pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 The CSA is an old-boys network. That's why Osieck resigned, because he wasn't a part of it, and they wouldn't stick up for him because of that. People like Ian Bridge, Dale Mitchell, Paul James, Kevin Pipe, Frank Yallop, Bruce Twamley, they just get recycled. What we need is some top players to say they won't play because of the bolony. Maybe then, people would take notice of the political garbage that keeps happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Only the players have the ability to force change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanKeay Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 my god just end it luis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted September 5, 2004 Author Share Posted September 5, 2004 quote:Originally posted by SeanKeay my god just end it luis End what!!!!!!!!!!!!! You got a problem that I am telling the truth, and that no one is doing something to change the corruption that has existed for almost 16 years at the CSA. I will continue denouncing the CSA where ever I go. It's now my destiny. Things have to change right now, and we could start by firing the a$$ of Kevan Pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Luis, what are you doing? Other than making posts on this message board that are hard to read because of your poor grammar and poor English comprehension. What are you doing to affect change, other than whining on this board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted September 5, 2004 Author Share Posted September 5, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack Luis, what are you doing? Other than making posts on this message board that are hard to read because of your poor grammar and poor English comprehension. What are you doing to affect change, other than whining on this board? Here is what I have done so far: I've written thousands of letters to the CSA, requesting for reforms that I mention on the above post. To this day, not a single member of the CSA has written to me. As far as I'm concern, the CSA has black listed me for life. So please Massive Attack, don't attack my loyalty to Canadian soccer. I don't appreciate your cheap shots bellow the belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokanne Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Here is my question! How do they vote for the top positions at the CSA, who appoints these postions how is all that done! If there is no structure in the CSA for voting and such, then we should complain to the minister of sport in canada! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 That's exactly my point, your letters will not change anything. Especially if your letters are written in the same tone as your posts on this forum. If I worked at the CSA, and I received a letter from a raging lunatic, I wouldn't pay attention to it either. There are other more productive ways to bring chages to the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted September 5, 2004 Author Share Posted September 5, 2004 This is the way how I see it. The CSA for almost 3 years had the opportunity to build an alliance with the provincial leagues. Such an alliance would have been beneficial towards establishing an open-cup tournament. So far nothing has been done. This is what I find so frustrating from people like Kevan Pipe who persist in pursuing the same path of which we have seen for the last 16 years. In the corporate world, Pipe would have been fired for incompetence. This man has not</u> produced any positive results in the last 16 years of his term of duty within the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokanne Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 How did he get to his position? Did he rise up from the Local Civic Soccer Associations or what! If thats the case im gonna try and become the president of "Metro Ford, Coquitlam City, Port Moody Minor" Associations. I have some ideas to benefit those associations. Then maybe move on up to the Provincial and the National Associations. I figure if Abbotsford can get a PDL team why couldn't a merged Metro Ford, Coquitlam City, Port Moody Minor Association get a PDL team as well. They already use the 4000 seat Towne Centre Stadium for regular league games for all ages. That stadium could support a PDL team and the pitch is quality as witnessed in the Millwall, Hearts series. The future of a pro league requires the local soccer associations to start building the foundation for a pro team! Work towards generating fan interest. You can do that with top level minor soccer teams by getting the local papers which publish anything in the paper if you provide them with news article's and photo's. Im talking the free papers that make money off advertising, Not like the Vancouver Sun and Province. All of this can be accomplished without spending large sums of money! Id volunteer to help build soccer in this country! I just don't like wasting my time if its an old boys network! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerbeast Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Luis_Rancagua Here is what I have done so far: I've written thousands of letters to the CSA, requesting for reforms that I mention on the above post. To this day, not a single member of the CSA has written to me. As far as I'm concern, the CSA has black listed me for life. So please Massive Attack, don't attack my loyalty to Canadian soccer. I don't appreciate your cheap shots bellow the belt. Well done Luis, I to have written to the CSA, but i did get a reply that was luke warm at best. I feel the CSA want to stay with the Status Quo, and not change, otherwise Frank Yallop would have never job the job as manager. Massive attack is a complete blowhard who can't see that critizing the Canadian team, CSA is the only way to get improvements. He likes our team to be under achevers, but real fans say enough is enough. It looks now that Guatemala and Honduras win advance from our group,leaving Canada and Costa Rica to battle for the booby prize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 There's a shocker. Luis and soccerbitch see eye-to-eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted September 5, 2004 Author Share Posted September 5, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Rudi There's a shocker. Luis and soccerbitch see eye-to-eye. Rudi, if you have some (b)itching to do, then directed to the CSA rather than me. I'm here to stand-up for Canadian soccer. If you can't understand that than I really don't know what to say about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Luis, I agree with much of your concerns, but I would suggest that a concerted campaign be started AFTER this round. Then a better formulated and well thought-out plan of action and suggestions be implemented. Right now everyone is piss*d and that's why you and soccerwench get lumped together. Someday the Voyageurs will be THE soccer lobby in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Luis_Rancagua Rudi, if you have some (b)itching to do, then directed to the CSA rather than me. I'm here to stand-up for Canadian soccer. If you can't understand that than I really don't know what to say about you. Nothing personal Luis, I'm just really pissed off right now. Quite honestly I fail to see how last night's officiating debacle was the fault of anyone at the CSA. I really think that the people using last night's events as yet another chance to lash out the CSA are in poor taste. I will apologize for one thing, though. I should have never equated you with soccerbitch. You at least have had positive things to say about Canadian soccer at times, while all soccerbitch does is whine and cause upheaval with his ridiculous one-tracked posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 quote:Originally posted by RJB The CSA is an old-boys network. That's why Osieck resigned, because he wasn't a part of it, and they wouldn't stick up for him because of that. People like Ian Bridge, Dale Mitchell, Paul James, Kevin Pipe, Frank Yallop, Bruce Twamley, they just get recycled. What we need is some top players to say they won't play because of the bolony. Maybe then, people would take notice of the political garbage that keeps happening. Don't quite get your meaning of the words 'get recycled'. If it is a negative connotation, I disagree your including Ian Bridge in this. I think Bridge has and is doing an excellent job with the Women U-19 team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 quote:Originally posted by kokanne Here is my question! How do they vote for the top positions at the CSA, who appoints these postions how is all that done! If there is no structure in the CSA for voting and such, then we should complain to the minister of sport in canada! Here is how I understand the structure works, though I could be mistaken on some deatails. The CSA is overseen by it's Board of Dirctors, who are composed of the Presidents (part-time positions) of the 10 Provincial Associations and the Yukon-NWT Association, along with 10 other representatives from each province (usually the Executive Directors) plus a representative for Women's Soccer Development and the A-League. When the Board votes, the Board members do not vote as individuals. The votes are apportioned to each Association on the basis of each Provincial Association's registrations fees (but no more than 25% for any one Association, which is Ontario's vote on the board...I believe Ontario contributes almost half the fees). The Board of Directors votes for the 6 Executive Postions, including the CSA President (Andy Sharpe) and the 5 Directors of various things like Women's Soccer and referreeing. Currently they are 2 year terms (half the Executive elected every year). They are now considering extending the term of the president to 4 years. The Board does not elect the Chief Operating Officer (Pipe) nor any other staff. The Executive has no administrative responsibilities, there job is to provide general policy direction to the COO and to hire and fire the Chief Operating Officer. The "Executive" in fact has no executive powers, these are the pprovince of the COO. The Board members say that they have no authourity in the hiring, oversight or firing of the COO. Most importantly, other than approving the budget presented to them, the Executive and the Board have no say as to financial matters. The Chief Operating Officer (Pipe) is not a hired for a set term nor a strictly "contract" position. He is hired as an employee, so the general laws concerning employment apply. He has to be fired for just cause or can claim compensation, just like the CEO of any major institution or corporation. I believe he has been the COO since 1982. He is the real power behind the CSA, and operates in fact almost completely independently of the Executive and the Board. He hires the other officers and staff under him. Andy Sharpe's Presdiency is a part-time (like a volunteer) position, and he resides in British Columbia without access to personal staff. The Provincial Associations are all structured in a similiar way. The Boards are composed of the District presidents, and the voting is structured on the basis of registration fee percentages. I have spoken to some of the Provincial Presidents and Directors, and they have all said reform is needed, and that they and Andy Sharpe have much influence in what happens in the Ottawa offices. An analogy as to how Soccer admionistration works is silmiliar to the old system of Soviets in the former Soviet Union. There are so many layers and fiefdoms, that reform and change is almost impossible. Because there is no vote for the individual beyond the club level, there is no way that a democratic consenus can directly effect change of either policy nor personnel. And, because the system is so unwieldy, system reform is impossible in a practical sense. There are only two effective ways to effect real change in such a system. One is for a regulating body such as the Government of Canada or FIFA to effect it. The Federal Government did exactly this in the 1970's when they set up Hockey Canada, spurred on by widespread publuic demands. The various politicians in control are not uncomfortable with Pipe. Such demands would not likely occur with soccer, and we have seen how slow reform is in the Olympics notwithstanding the public concern there. Pipe is also very cozy with the politicians who matter. FIFA is also unlikely to step in as they have in other countries, because their power is not threatened by the current CSA setup. The only other way for effective change is if there is a coup at the top by the few individuals on the Board and Executive. This is difficult, as it would require single-minded effort by all involved at this level. It is at the present time unlikely, and one reason is that Pipe has structured the administration of the CSA in such a way that he is the only one that pulls the strings of power. Sharp and his colleagues on the Executive and Board have been frank in saying that they don't know what is happening in Ottawa most of the time. Such reform occurred in the Soviet Union occcured when Gorbachov manipulated the power circles at the top. He did not do it using the system in any legitimate way with power emanating from the lower levels, it was a strictly undemocratic seizure of power. And, history shows that such change is usually very rare. This inability of the man at field level to effect change can be disheartening. Since reform is unlikely (more like impossible) trying to work up the levels of "power", the best attempt would be to try to influence change through a public campaign of change. The best chance of a "Chernobyl" to occur would be for some enterprising journalist to do an expose of the inefficieny and waste of the CSA administration. I am not alleging there is any fraudulent corruption on the part of Pipe and his minions (there is no evidence of this from what I am aware of), but there is clear incompetence and waste, and this amounts to at least moral criminality. A combination of these factors could force the sponsors to do something by threatening to pull funds unless changes are made at the top. This is where Pipe is vulnerable. This is turn could influence some sort of power struggle and hopefully change at the top. Like any revolutionary activity, there are always negatives and drawbacks that are paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massimo Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Luis,, Basically the way I see it, is that the CSA is a political machine for things to change the way you mention takes time and lots of it. These guys have there own agenda, and that doesn't mean no one at the CSA gives a rat's ass, but it seems they all want to do what you mention but it's a few years yet the don't mention anything about a league or etc. It is frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosehead Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 "The Board members say that they have no authourity in the hiring, oversight or firing of the COO. Most importantly, other than approving the budget presented to them, the Executive and the Board have no say as to financial matters." HA HA HA HA!!! This is extremely funny!! HA HA HA!!!! where did they get this Board from. HA HA HA HA!!!! what did they think they were appointed as rubber stamps.!!! The Monty Python Board of Directors of the CSA. 16 years of the Board and they wanted to but didn't realize that they can fire the COO. Trouble is it takes them 2 years to figure this out and then a new set of Monty Python Board of Directors get elected. HA HA HA HA HA!!! I can just see the Kevan smoking his Pipe by the fire having a good laugh on this one. HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosehead Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 "The Board members say that they have no authourity in the hiring, oversight or firing of the COO. Most importantly, other than approving the budget presented to them, the Executive and the Board have no say as to financial matters." HA HA HA HA!!! This is extremely funny!! HA HA HA!!!! where did they get this Board from. HA HA HA HA!!!! what did they think they were appointed as rubber stamps.!!! The Monty Python Board of Directors of the CSA. 16 years of the Board and they wanted to but didn't realize that they can fire the COO. Trouble is it takes them 2 years to figure this out and then a new set of Monty Python Board of Directors get elected. HA HA HA HA HA!!! I can just see the Kevan smoking his Pipe by the fire having a good laugh on this one. HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanKeay Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Luis... plain and simple The reason the csa doesnt give u any respect is because ur a quack.... They may be doing things wrong, but ranting and raving onthis board 45000 times isnt going to help a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 quote:Originally posted by SeanKeay Luis... plain and simple The reason the csa doesnt give u any respect is because ur a quack.... They may be doing things wrong, but ranting and raving onthis board 45000 times isnt going to help a thing. Hey Sean, tell me now if whether I'm a real quack. All I know that the media is sounding this beat of getting rid-off the CSA establishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeltfc91 Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Can we stop (b)itching at eachother over the internet and actually do something. A letter won't do sh)t a complaint won't do sh)t, 100 guys at the Costa Rica game weaing sack the CSA t-shirt's wont do sh(t. We have to actually do something.. anything, burn down their building or something stupid who cares! Invade the pitch in Edmonton, light a big CSA banner on fire, riot outside the stadium on WEdnesday, something real not these stupid baby letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javier Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 MICHAEL TFC 91 is correct, the only way to work this out , is to get nationwide exposure,m and the only way is by getting some hoolingalism back, as the IRISH DID last year, a letter a mail is USELESS, it is time to action, and get a solution as AUSTRALIA DID in 2002 after got ripped off, by uruguay in Montevideo. THE ONLY ASWER IS TO GET A RIOT , OUTSIDE CSA, OR AT EDMONTON...time for action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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