Ashton Gate Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 Scotland 0 Hungary 3 Umpteen losses at Hampden Park in a row; accusations that present day Scottish soccer coaches would struggle to develop a polaroid camera print; a dreadfully lopsided league..... With Wales looking stronger than Scotland these days, yet hardly having expats all over the world who claim to be experts in the game, something has to be done about Scottish soccer. Or is Duncan Fletcher the next great coming ? Scotland used to develop TRULY GREAT AND SKILLED PLAYERS..... My Hungarian fellow coach says that Hungary are really not that strong so what the .... is up with Scottish soccer these days??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 Err, you mean Darren Fletcher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soju Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 Didn't Scotland hand us our asses not too long ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadiankick97 Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Barely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 quote:Originally posted by canadiankick97 Barely We're talking soccer. A 3-1 score isn't "barely" beating someone. Despite the fact we scored a shock goal early on a good play by DeRo, they really outplayed us once the game got going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashton Gate Posted August 21, 2004 Author Share Posted August 21, 2004 Sadly, as we witnessed the other night, I'm not convinced beating Canada at home 3-1 proves Scottish soccer is alive and well. Whatever happened to the production line that produced World class players such as Joe Baxter, Kenny Dalglish, Denis Law, Willie Johnstone, Archie Gemmill, Joe Jordan. As a schoolboy I remember watching one of the very first live TV games broadcast when Celtic beat Inter Milan 2-1 to win the European Cup (with all Scottish players, the first British team to win the Cup, 1965 I think). Every English schoolboy wanted to be Murdoch or Chalmers in the playground the next day. Now, I couldn't even get Fletchers christian name right and Scotland struggles against the Faeroe islands. Now its England that churn out the great young players, Rooney, Owen etc.etc.. Make no mistake Scottish football has fallen a long, long way. Heck even their Rugby team is crap, what the heck is going on over there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Come on Ed, we out-played them in the first half. We had a ball handled off the line and DeRo had a tap in and Imhof was heavy footed with the pass. We also started a back four of Pozniak, McKenna, Fenwick and Hastings. The Scots were definitely not happy with their play in the first half and most were grumbling off to get pies at the 35 minute mark as we took it to them. That being said we were totally out-played in the second half. I thought we played decently in that game and the score flattered Scotland. I should add I support Scotland after Canada. What's wrong with them? Their best young players are either playing reserve football with good English teams (or the Old Firm) or they're trying to learn the game at Motherwell or Dundee while they're struggling against the big Scot clubs. It worked for McFadden and others, but I don't think the state of the SPL is helping them develop players. My biggest thing is that I think Bertie is clueless and hopeless. He might be a good manager, but I don't think he is getting the most out of Scotland. Still just a friendly though. If there's on thing about Scotland they're capable of beating the Dutch 1-0 and then getting stuffed by Hungary or New Zealand or someone. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashton Gate Posted August 21, 2004 Author Share Posted August 21, 2004 Good point about Bertie Vogts. They ought to be looking at convincing Gordon Strachan to take over, if he'd take the job. He's gutsy enough to really shake things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Some interesting points. I think they previously had a good manager in Craig Brown. I thought his teams played with great effort and enthusiasm. I agree about Strachan and I think he has the balls to pull it off. However, I'm inclined to think that the Scottish FA may be ready to pounce for David Moyes. Obviously he isn't getting any support from the board at Everton added to the fact that they appear headed for relegation. Also consider he is one of the most qualified coaches in the UK with all his coaching licenses and his reputation for developing young players and handling them well (Wayne Rooney, for example). I think he would be the next best bet for dealing with the young Scotland players (once they clear out the dead wood). As for the players, there are some young bright lights like Darren Fletcher (Manure), Paul Gallacher (Blackburn), James McFadden (Everton), Kris Boyd (Killie) plus the Celtic trio of David Marshall, Craig Beattie and Stephen Pearson. Figure in that Barry Ferguson (Blackburn) is still only 26 and Richard Hughes (Portsmouth) is 25 and they have the makings of a potentially good squad that could grow into a team that is difficult to beat. How much those players develop will depend on their club set-up. Obviously Ferguson, Hughes, marshall, Fletcher, Boyd and McFadden are pretty much regulars at their clubs, but the others will need some nurturing. As for Scottish rugby, nothing's been the same since the Hastings brothers (Scott and Gavin) retired. Woefully thin player pool that has resulted in capping decendents of ex-pats from New Zealand. Although it was cool when Canada beat them in that test match (mainly cuz I was there ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Yeah, Canada clearly outplayed them in the first half, and had a definite handball in the box not called. In the second half, Holger stuck with his starting 11 as usual and Scotland put out 3-4 subs and took over the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashton Gate Posted August 21, 2004 Author Share Posted August 21, 2004 It was a massive disappointment that Ferguson got injured last season. I hope he flourishes this year, his development under Souness is very important for Scotland. Maybe the developmental pipeline is cyclical. However, the Scottish Prem was dire last year. I think (outside Glasgow and Boston) people in Scotland are desperately hoping that Hearts and the Dundee teams can take some points off Rangers and Celtic this season. The timing of the next coaching appointment is very important for Scotland (surely Vogts won't last much longer). They need a good start to WC qualifying and I see that Dailly is out for three months, so that won't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desigol Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 My Scotland Satrting XI (Providing there are no injuries) 1. Galagher 2. Ross 3. Kennedy 4. Fletcher 5. Daily 6. Naysmith 7. Pearson 8. Ferguson © 9. Dickov 10. McFadden 11. Burke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashton Gate Posted August 22, 2004 Author Share Posted August 22, 2004 Gordon Strachan has declared his interest today in the Scotland coaching job in an interview with BBC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Well, the tone of the article indicates nothing is set, but it could happen quick given the fact that Scotland starts WCQ on September 8, and they are stuck in the muck and mire big time. They have nothing to lose but the payoff to Vogts. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/scotland/3586258.stm ------------------------------------------------------------------ Strachan in Scotland link Strachan left Southampton in February Gordon Strachan has admitted he would be interested in taking the Scotland manager's job if it became available. The former Southampton manager is the man many Scotland supporters want in the post as patience runs out with current incumbent Berti Vogts. Strachan was asked on the BBC's Football Focus programme if he would consider taking over from Vogts if the opportunity presented itself. "I'm a Scotsman, how could I say no," he replied. Former Scotland captain John Collins urged the Scottish Football Association to approach Strachan. He told BBC Radio Scotland: "He (Strachan) was a great Scotland player, he has done well in club management and is out of work at the moment. "He would be a good one for Scotland. He would be a terrific appointment." Collins said he was concerned at the lack of communication between Vogts and his players. "The first thing manager has to do is to tell every single player exactly what he wants from them individually and collectively," added Collins. "When you watch a Scotland game, you see players looking to the dug-out and do they really know what they are going to do during that 90 minutes? "It is a worry, because, if there is an improvement, we can take a defeat but it is the manner of the defeat and there has been no improvement in the performance. "The results are poor as well so, hopefully, there will be some changes but it is the SFA who make the decisions." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Two more articles for those that are interested in the auld sod. Sorry to overdo it, just thought I'd post in one place. I, for one, find it a refreshing, although perverted, solace to look at another nations problems in these sorry times that try mens' souls. --------------------------------------------------------------- I won't quit, says Vogts Press Association Sunday August 22, 2004 Under pressure: Vogts is refusing to walk away Scotland manager Berti Vogts admits he can understand calls for his resignation but insists he has no intention of quitting. The German has come under increasing pressure since Wednesday's 3-0 home defeat to Hungary - a nation ranked 15 places below the Scots. He has revealed how he sat up until 5am watching a video of the dismal display, and has no excuses for Scotland's heaviest home defeat since being thrashed by England in 1973. The Scottish Football Association have now found themselves under further pressure to replace Vogts after Gordon Strachan threw his hat in the ring yesterday. He quit Southampton in February and has been taking a break from the game since then, but he has revealed he would be unable to turn down the Scotland job if an offer came his way. The latest defeat comes just a couple of weeks before Scotland's first World Cup qualifier against Slovenia but Vogts believes their fortunes will change in that game. He said: "I understand the pressure from the press. I have nothing to defend a 3-0 defeat at home. "But I am not a quitter. I told you that a year ago, and I am getting no pressure from the SFA either. "In three or four years, Scotland will have a very good national team if all the boys in this group stay together. "The people in the street know that but I need time. "If we play like we did in the first half on Wednesday, we will beat Slovenia. I am telling you." ------------------------------------------------------------------- Vogts's days are numbered Defeat by Hungary means Scotland manager is one more bad result away from sack, says Patrick Glenn Sunday August 22, 2004 The Observer If the only friends Berti Vogts has left are to be found in the Scotland dressing room, it merely underlines the readiness of footballers to pledge allegiance to the manager who puts them in the team. Genuine apologists for the German - those with no vested interest in his selection deliberations - are now about as abundant as life on Mars as a result of the latest embarrassing mauling of the national team, resulting in the 3-0 defeat by Hungary at Hampden Park last week. Any prospect of sympathy for Vogts seems to dissolve every time he attempts to conduct his own defence. Equal measures of incoherence and bewilderment invariably inform his post-match addresses to the media; for those desperately seeking an encouraging rationale from the manager, it will be more disturbing to learn that, the next day, having had the opportunity to gather his thoughts, nothing had changed. Anyone who understood as little about his job as Vogts declares after each humiliation could not expect to be retained for the duration of his contract. 'I can't understand it,' he said again on Thursday. 'In the first half, they played very, very well, one of the best performances after the one when they beat Holland in the European play-off [first leg] last year. I can't understand what happened in the second half.' He is also, on these fraught occasions, insistent that he does not understand how his players can look so competent in training and be so abysmal during a match. This incomprehension amounts to a failure to recognise that, in training his players are facing colleagues of similar merit. That is, of equal mediocrity. Vogts's utterances in this regard are a worrying echo of those of Kevin Keegan during his time as England manager. In the press tent adjacent to the stadium in Charleroi immediately after his team had been eliminated from Euro 2000 by losing to Romania, Keegan said: 'I don't understand it. In training they're brilliant. Then, for some reason, they don't transfer it to a match.' That was the puzzlement of a manager whose days were numbered. Vogts is contracted to the Scottish FA (SFA) until the World Cup in 2006, but with the first qualifier - at home to Slovenia - in two-and-a-half weeks, there is a groundswell of conviction that indicates he is unlikely to see it through. Failure to win that opening match in a series that also includes games against Italy, Norway, Belarus and Moldova will bring enormous pressure on the association to dismiss Vogts, even if compensation in the region of £1million will be payable. Vogts has already missed his first objective, which was to qualify for Euro 2004 in Portugal. While he indulged in some unbecoming preening over taking the Scots into a play-off against Holland - in the second leg of which they were bulldozed to a 6-0 defeat in Amsterdam - the SFA's chief executive, David Taylor, made it clear that his remit was reaching the major finals. Taylor outlined this demand during the trip to Copenhagen for a friendly against Denmark last season, leaving no room for negotiation. A faltering start to the campaign to reach the World Cup finals in Germany in two years' time, on top of the humiliation by Hungary, could be enough to prompt decisive action. Vogts would have no grounds for complaint. If there was a moderately pleasing look about his team in the early part of the Hungary match, it was precisely that: a look. There was little substance to their endeavours in the business of overcoming the opposition and, despite some slickness in midfield, they were a goal down at half-time. Vogts, by his own admission, panicked. Having operated the so-called diamond formation, he removed the defensive midfielder, Gary Caldwell, of Hibernian, and replaced him with Rangers forward Steven Thompson. The consequent disarray was exploited by Lothar Matthaus's team to the extent of a further two goals, but with enough opportunities to have doubled their winning margin. 'I changed because I want to win,' Vogts said, 'but I made the change too early. That is a lesson.' As it was, the defeat was the heaviest at home in the 31 years since England won 5-0 in the SFA's centenary celebration match. Vogts's comparison with what occurred in 1973 and what may happen in 2004 was pathetic, an example of impulsive nonsense based on ignorance. 'Yes, that Scotland team lost so heavily to England, but later that year they were in the World Cup finals,' he said, implying that the present squad are capable of emulating the achievement. Those of us who attended the debacle three decades ago distinctly recall two crucial differences between then and now. The first was that the snow-covered and frost-bound pitch was unplayable and the play was pantomimic, the result freakish. Secondly, and most significantly, Scotland then were well advanced on the road to qualification for the 1974 World Cup, which they completed by beating Czechoslovakia seven months after losing to England. 'I told you already and I tell you again,' Vogts said. 'In three or four years, Scotland will have a very good national team.' In which case, they are likely also to have a different manager. 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beachesl Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Scots 'like San Marino' http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/scotland/3620670.stm FRIENDLY Spain v Scotland Fri 3 Sep, Valencia 2100 BST kick-off Live coverage on BBC Radio Scotland 810MW and BBC Sport website McNamara in unfamiliar role Taylor admits Vogts doubts Arsenal striker Jose Antonio Reyes says that Spain coach Luis Aragones sees Scotland as ideal warm-up opponents - as he likens them to San Marino. The minnows of Europe are future opponents for Spain. And Reyes said: "Our coach says they play in the same way as San Marino, who we meet later in our World Cup group. "They will be ideal preparation, because they play the same long-ball game and have similar styles of players who are strong and physical." Reyes, who turned 21 on Wednesday, realises that a defeat for Scotland in Friday's friendly in Valencia would heap more pressure on their highly-criticised manager. But he said: "I would love to score one or two goals against Scotland as that would be a nice way to celebrate my birthday. These are the sort of players you want to play against Scotland goalkeeper Craig Gordon "I know Berti Vogts is under a lot of pressure just now because Scotland have had some bad results. "But we can't be concerned about that and if my goals mean he loses his job then that's football. "I have to do my best for Spain and my job is to score goals. "All we are thinking about is winning the match and getting ready for the qualifiers." Reyes, who moved to London in a £10m move from Seville, has scored four goals in as many games in helping Arsenal top the English Premiership and one in the Community Shield. Young Hearts goalkeeper Craig Gordon is not fazed by the prospect of facing some of Europe's top strikers at a time when Scotland have slumped to a worst-ever 67 in the world rankings. "It could be a busy night, but that is what you train for all your life," he said. "I am not afraid of it. "Reyes has scored in every game, but hopefully we can stop him." Gordon is set to win only his second full Scotland cap in the Levante Stadium in Valencia on Friday in the final warm-up match before the World Cup qualifiers begin next week. New Spanish coach Aragones is without Raul, but his Real Madrid team-mate, Fernando Morientes, could partner Reyes in a still-formidable attack. The 21-year-old Gordon gets his chance to stop them scoring due to injury for Celtic's even younger David Marshall and lack of first-team football for Parkhead team-mate Rab Douglas and Norwich City's Paul Gallacher. But Gordon added: "These are the sort of players you want to play against. "I'm looking forward to it. I can't wait actually." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desigol Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Gallacher would have got First Team Football had Robert Green joined Arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcl_19 Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 san marino? thats pretty harsh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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