fan Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Canada was the only country bidding. The final will NOT be played in the new varsity stadium. $35 million worth of federal and provincial government funding for a stadium that will support and financially bolster the Argos and UOFT bank accounts After the tournament the CSA and soccer will get dirty cousin status and international matches against any top 50 club or country will be rare if at all FIFA mandates that the final be played in a stadium that seats 30,000-plus. Even this vital detail could not be reached by the CSA. Even in the press conference for the stadium the CSA will be shafted to holding the microphone for the Argos and UOFT. What a complete and utter embarassment and true life example of the total incompetence and sheer lack of intelligence by the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrek Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 So what if the final won't be played at Varsity. The good news is that it's getting built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 It's been known for months that the new stadium would be shared with the Argos and university. No surprises from what I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosehead Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Article on Sportsnet with Argos owner commenting on new stadium and who has imput in new surface.. I am not suprised there thrilled, the naming rights will easily cover the debt servicing costs and they wouldn't have got such a good deal without the Csa. Seeing CSA and this tournament was key to gettting the 35 million in government funding, I would have thought the CSA would have negotiated a role in the decision of what the future playing surface would be and would have some share of the revenue and naming rights of this stadium. It seems tennis canada can go it alone on their stadium but not the CSA. "Sokolowski said Varsity Stadium's playing surface will be natural grass for the under-20 soccer tournament. Afterwards, though, the Argos and U of T will decide jointly upon a synthetic surface" http://www.sportsnet.ca/cfl/shownews.jsp?content=f081033A Argonauts owner ecstatic with Canada receiving world under-20 soccer event posted August 10 @ 17:17, EST TORONTO (CP) - The Canadian Soccer Association was front and centre Tuesday with news it has secured the 2007 world under-20 soccer championship but it's the Toronto Argonauts who stand to be the real winners. That's because with Tuesday's announcement, the CFL team took a huge step towards kicking off the 2006 season in a new outdoor stadium. Securing the under-20 championships finalized $35 million worth of federal and provincial government funding for a new Varsity Stadium in Toronto. The $80-million outdoor facility, which will be home to the Argos and University of Toronto football team, is slated to have a seating capacity between 25,000 and 26,000. "This is a very exciting day," said Argos co-owner Howard Sokolowski. "When David (co-owner David Cynamon) and I bought the Argos, it was fundamental that we move into a new stadium. "This is an unbelievable achievement for Canada and for Toronto because I don't think people realize just how big a celebration the world under-20 soccer tournament is. It is amazing to think that three years from now we will be walking down Bloor Street to a new Varsity stadium. We're ecstatic." The remainder of the stadium funding will come from the University of Toronto, which will finance $30 million and provide $15 million more from donors. The Argos are hoping a more intimate facility will create a higher demand for tickets, just as a move to Molson Stadium from Olympic Stadium did for the Montreal Alouettes, who have played before 50 straight sellouts. With new local owners and an exciting on-field product this year, the Argos are averaging nearly 25,000 fans per game, up from about 15,000 last year when the CFL was forced to assume control of the franchise from former owner Sherwood Schwarz. When Sokolowski, who owns and operates Tribute Homes, and Cynamon, chief executive officer of KIK Corporation, North America's largest producer of private label household bleach, bought the Argos, a new stadium was the key. The new owners committed to play at SkyDome the next two years, but promised the franchise would move into a new outdoor facility come the 2006 season. While the U of T's governing council must still approve the plan - that's expected some time next month - Sokolowski admitted the major hurdle was obtaining federal and provincial government funding. "That was the key," he said. "Now we have all the financing in place." Sokolowski expects construction to begin early next year, with the stadium being ready for CFL play in June 2006. Sokolowski said the new facility will be very fan-friendly. "It will be designed in a way where the fans will still be close to the players and the field," he said. Sokolowski said Varsity Stadium's playing surface will be natural grass for the under-20 soccer tournament. Afterwards, though, the Argos and U of T will decide jointly upon a synthetic surface. Of more importance to the Argos, the new Varsity Stadium will give them more opportunity to be profitable. At SkyDome, the Argos pay high rent and receive only a tiny cut of concessions. Sponsorship, advertising and parking all goes to SkyDome. The Argos will pay the annual $2.1 million cost of debt servicing on Varsity Stadium but will also operate it. The facility will host various recreational and high school soccer and football championships, community functions and concerts, giving the CFL club access to such revenue streams as sponsorship and concession sales. "It's certainly a win-win situation for Toronto," said Sokolowski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 quote:Originally posted by fan Canada was the only country bidding. The final will NOT be played in the new varsity stadium. I didn't realize you had spread this total garbage on both boards. [xx(] If you look at the thread on "FIFA reasoning" posted by Free Kick, you will note (as was well-known for some time) that South Korea was also in the running. With all due lack of respect, it is a sheer lack of intelligence and total incompetence to even suggest, whether seriously or just for trolling purposes, that not holding the final in Toronto is a "complete and utter embarrassment" to Canada. [|)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffymac1971 Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Fan will you **** off with all that whining...sheesh!! You finally got a half decent stadium and so what if Toronto doesn't get the final, The Argo's, The CSA got what they wanted and if they convert to Fieldturf after the U20's in 2007, who cares, FIFA is opened to syntethic surfaces and infact probably Edmonton and TO will be the only natural surfaces for the WYC in 2007...So relax, smoke a joint and take a ****in' pill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Crampton Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Toronto gets the opening game; Edmonton gets the final. How is that an embarrasment to the CSA? Euro 2004 - Porto got the opener; Lisbon got the Final. WC 2002 - Korea got the opener; Japan got the Final. Euro 2000 - Didn't Belgium and Holland split the opener and final? This is a very familiar tactic; especially in larger countries. The Rose Bowl didn't have the final and opener in USA '94 did it? With regard to field turf I still find it tough to believe that grass can't be grown in Canada... Commonwealth seems to work just fine and it's in the most northerly city in the CFL. What makes Edmonton so special? If the CSA wants to use the T.O. stadium for MNT friendlies and qualifiers they should work really hard to make sure that the surface is real grass. Work out a deal to split the maintenance and upkeep costs with the Argos and UofT if you have to - the costs can't be too much to bear over three organizations can it? What about Track and Field Canada? Don't they have an interest in maintaining grass as well? Finally, with this announcement wouldn't it be nice if Vancouver and/or Montreal were to get a new stadium out of it as well? Vancouverites it's time to start lobbying your provincial government RIGHT NOW! I know that they're a bunch of cheap penny pinchers and that the whole Olympic thing will obviously be priority #1 but this is the best chance you'll have to get a decent stadium for probably a generation barring the Caps moving up to MLS. Montrealers: can the Quebec government allow evil T.O. to have something that Montreal doesn't? Your team already draws way better and has outgrown its stadium. The province is already a major sponsor. This sort of cosmic aligning of factors doesn't come along every day! Get out there and start agitating RIGHT NOW! Use Impact home games to get things moving. There's not much of 2004 left (though you have play-offs to look forward to at least) so time is of the essence! Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan Posted August 11, 2004 Author Share Posted August 11, 2004 south korea thats simply a joke The point is not that the final is not being played in toronto its that the CSA did not propose to build a stadium that met Fifas requirements which made that decision for them Just like past league proposals that fell apart to create Canadian soccer emabarassment the CSA announces a deal that is not approved yet, it still needs approval from the UOFT. This is bad business practice at the least and to do it in front of the whole world is ridiculous and if it fails is disasterous.The CSA risks ridicule and disaster because it doesnt even have the common sense to wait for approval and confirm it before speaking publicly to anyone. The CSA may gain financially in the begining but the Argos and UOFT will gain a sustainable financial resource for decades because they are intelligent businees people. The turf issue is vital to future financial success that is sustainable for future matches and the CSA dont acquire this in the deal Even before this deal is finally decided on the CSA have demonstrated there total incompetence and already embarassed Canadaian soccer again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 quote:Originally posted by fan south korea thats simply a joke The point is not that the final is not being played in toronto its that the CSA did not propose to build a stadium that met Fifas requirements which made that decision for them Perhaps if the CSA were funding the project themselves they might actually be able to call the shots. Just a thought. [:0] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosehead Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Perhaps if the CSA were funding the project themselves they might actually be able to call the shots. Who gets the naming rights? Whoever gets them, it will cover the loan the Argos have to pay on their portion of the stadium. Just a thought. [:0] They are funding the project indirectly. The government said they are giving the money because of the U20 World Cup and for Canadian soccer, but the reality is after the world cup its going to be a massive subsidy to the Argos and the CSA doesn't even have a say on the style of pitch despite the CSA being the catalyst for getting 35 million grant towards the stadium in the first place. Its pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devioustrevor Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 In addition to pumping money into his pet project in Austria, perhaps Frank Stronach should being offering to build the CSA a stadium in Canada. I find it really strange that Canada has the least altruistic billionaires in the world, they all seem to be money-grubbing penny-pinchers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Off topic, but wasn't it a Canadian that helped save Celtic a number of years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Champ Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 New name. 'CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE STADIUM' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Funny that chossing a artifical surface will knock TO out of posibly holding some IAAF Grand Prix or Golden League events. Such competitions would be good for the coffers. Looks like Rugby Canada found it's own grounds to use: York Univeristy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Moosehead They are funding the project indirectly. The government said they are giving the money because of the U20 World Cup and for Canadian soccer, but the reality is after the world cup its going to be a massive subsidy to the Argos and the CSA doesn't even have a say on the style of pitch despite the CSA being the catalyst for getting 35 million grant towards the stadium in the first place. Its pathetic. There's something pathetic about this thread, but it's not the CSA this time......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Funny that chossing a artifical surface will knock TO out of posibly holding some IAAF Grand Prix or Golden League events. Such competitions would be good for the coffers. Looks like Rugby Canada found it's own grounds to use: York Univeristy. No one mentionned a running track and the original blueprints didn't have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosehead Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 "There's something pathetic about this thread, but it's not the CSA this time........." I am fully behind the u20 tournament and think it is fantastic, bravo to the CSA. I think its ok though to criticize the stadium deal. Forget the CSA then and bring in the government of Canada, they have stated publicly that they are giving the money for soccer, the u20 world cup and other sports such as Rugby and not just the CFL. If they are spending 35 million on a stadium for soccer don't you think they should ensure that soccer has a say in the pitch so that it can be used for soccer beyond the U20 World Cup, otherwise they have blown 35 million of public money in favour of a for profit professional football club. It is clear that the decision of the pitch type is up to the Argos and the U of T, I think this is wrong considering the government is giving the 35 million to soccer, they should have a veto on the pitch type to ensure it is suitable for soccer. I also fail to see where the big money from the Argos is coming from, they have put no money as far as I can see. Who gets the naming rights revenue, concessions etc. It seems that the CSA has a very limited role in the deal despite being the pawns for the whole financing of the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devioustrevor Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Moosehead I also fail to see where the big money from the Argos is coming from, they have put no money as far as I can see. Who gets the naming rights revenue, concessions etc. From what I understand the Argos are going to pay the interest on the bonds that U of T is going to issue to cover the costs of building not paid by the various levels of government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 quote:Originally posted by devioustrevor From what I understand the Argos are going to pay the interest on the bonds that U of T is going to issue to cover the costs of building not paid by the various levels of government. That will amount to $2-$3 million per year, if information I've heard is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 Uhhh, fan? U of T had reps at the announcement. If they were so uncertain, I doubt they would have been there. They might not have been at the head table, and they did mention it required Senate approval, but something like this wouldn't have been done without their (quiet) approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan Posted August 13, 2004 Author Share Posted August 13, 2004 I think moosehead's last comment about funding and what should have been acheived explains what I am referring to regarding what should have been confirmed and acheived.Should find out who is in charge on the federal side and mail him our concerns. For 35 million: 1. The CSA has all rights and final decision in the playinfg surface material. This will ensure future soccer games and sustainable revenue for the future 2. Concession stand and gate revenue at all soccer events held 3. Naming rights 4. Scheduling priority in case of conflicts The point loud mouth is that the CSA already has a bad reputation for announcing projects that have failed in the past because they did not know how to perform simple business tasks to verify consent and intent. The deal is not final and given that means you dont announce it untill it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 I still havent seen a detailed extensive report on the agreement. Seems to many contradicting points being presented. If someonee has an authentic detailed report that would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan Posted October 1, 2004 Author Share Posted October 1, 2004 As i stated earlier now the proof. This is far past the reasonable level. Everyone who is a fan or involved in soccer in anyway should write to the minister of sport now and ask for the immediate firing of the entire CSA board of directors and a democratic election to be implemented and held for each position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex M Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 quote:Originally posted by fan As i stated earlier now the proof. This is far past the reasonable level. Everyone who is a fan or involved in soccer in anyway should write to the minister of sport now and ask for the immediate firing of the entire CSA board of directors and a democratic election to be implemented and held for each position. You're retarded. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan Posted October 1, 2004 Author Share Posted October 1, 2004 Yes the UOFT is at fault too but as i stated in earlier posts the CSA joined and accepted a proposal that was flawed and seriously unsound. Then they went on National television and announced it when it was not secure.This is what the CSA has done in the past with other "proposals".Which have beeen "a total embarassment" and this is too.The point is they never should of announced or commited to this agreement in the first place. The steps are backwards and reflect that the CSA is completely business ignorant.The amount of incompetence demonstrated by the CSA board is substantial and they have been told in the past and membership have taken all the steps they could before deciding that resignation or dismissal is neccesary. As far as the final being scheduled for varsity.That point has been totally misconstrued . The point is not that this final should be held in toronto the point is they could have made sure the stadium met FIFA regulations to hold a final if not for this tournament certainly for future ones.The steps were clear and attainable but they did not acheive them. All of these points the stadium the field turf the funding the announcement were all based on ambiguities that made each one of them seperately ridiculous to engage in or present and now as a package add up to total incompetence. The point is that everyone now should fully understand there is a clear and definite need for a major reconstruction of the CSA. However without the support of the majority of the membership it will be futile. The chat on this board has been interesting and sometimes entertaining but there truly is a serious issue at hand now and it means it needs to be addresed in properly with the correct protocol in place. However this board can be used to facilitate at least in the beginiing the steps needed to proceed and then transfer it to proper mediums like the press,parliament and the CSA board itself. It is time for me and any other people on here who feel that the Canadian soccer public deserve and have a right to competent democratic leadership take the legal and democratic avenues available to us to accomplish just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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