CD Guadalajara join MLS

[Timotas]

source: www.mlsnet.com

With a crowd of CD Guadalajara supporters singing in full voice and a mariachi band playing, Major League Soccer welcomed Jorge Vergara's expansion team to Los Angeles and The Home Depot Center Monday evening.

The MLS club owned by Vergara, who also owns CD Guadalajara (commonly known as Chivas) and Costa Rican power Saprissa, will join the Los Angeles Galaxy as a tenant at the HDC, giving the city and league their first 'derby.' The fans' excitement at the announcement was evident as they cheered raucously for Vergara and at every mention of their beloved Chivas.

MLS Commissioner Don Garber heralded the arrival of Vergara and his club as the next leap forward for the sport in the United States. With two new expansion teams -- Salt Lake City was awarded a franchise in July -- starting play in 2005 and plans for stadiums in four MLS markets at various stages, the new L.A. club is yet another sign, Garber said, of the continuing growth of soccer in the USA.

We are the league for a new America. We are America's fastest growing sport," Garber said. "We are the world's most popular sport, and we are sure we will make it the most popular sport in the United States."

When it was his turn to take the podium, Vergara turned away from the assembled media and spent a great deal of time speaking to the gathered Chivas fans sitting behind the stage. He said he will transfer the brand of soccer he funds and espouses to the United States and, as with his other clubs, he will demand excellence.

He also presented his first challenge to the Los Angeles Galaxy, saying the "tranquility and peace" seen during the negotiations that resulted in the new club being located in Los Angeles will end once the teams hit the field.

Vergara and his business partner Antonio Cue, a Mexican real estate mogul, were allowed entry into the Galaxy's MLS territory after paying an undisclosed fee to AEG, which owns and operates the Galaxy and four other MLS teams. AEG will also serve as the agents for the new team's local marketing and broadcast rights. But on the field, the two HDC tenants will create a rivalry expected by many to immediately become one of the fiercest in the league.

"This is a great day for Los Angeles ... a great day for soccer in America," said AEG President Tim Leiweke. "When we built (the HDC), we wanted it to become the cathedral of soccer in America, not just for some of America, but for all of America. There's no other place (Vergara's club) should have gone to.

"This will probably be the best rivalry in all of sports in Southern California."

Cue joined in the talk of a great rivalry, emphasizing his and Vergara's desire to compete in MLS immediately. He confidently stated his mission for the new L.A. franchise.

"I'm sure we're going to be champions," he said. "I have no doubt about that."

The mayors of both Los Angeles and Carson, Calif., welcomed their new club enthusiastically. They traded jerseys with Vergara and Cue, with Los Angeles Mayor Jim Hahn giving an L.A. Kings hockey jersey and Carson Mayor Jim Dear giving an L.A. Lakers basketball jersey in exchange for Chivas shirts, much to the delight of the crowd.

Two current Chivas players also joined in the celebration, as Cue introduced Francisco Palencia and Ramon Ramirez, who are expected to play with the new Los Angeles club in 2005. Both said they were excited to come to Los Angeles and help the new club establish itself - and more importantly win. The club's roster will be stocked in large part through an expansion draft to be held in late November. The team name, logo and colors will be revealed in August, and the front office -- headed by former Galaxy vice president of marketing and communications Whit Haskel as general manager -- and coaching staff will be filled out in the coming months.

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Wouldn't you guys like to see Vancouver Whitecaps and Toronto Lynx join the MLS? Or even a new Toronto franchise joining the MLS!? I'd love it. All we need is a decent stadium which holds 20,000+. Toronto would probably be able to pick up Onstand and DeRo. :)Do you guys think there will ever be a possibility? If the Whitecaps or Lynx were in the MLS, do you think they'd be able to compete?

[ray]

Well, the CSA said they had an investor willing to put up the cash for a Toronto MLS franchise. All that was required was a stadium. The federal government said they would help fund a new Varsity stadium for the Argos, U of T and for soccer if Canada was awarded the 2007 FIFA Youth Championship. But, I think someone on the board has mentioned that this condition was removed. So where are we with respect to the stadium? Is it in the design process? If the condition was in fact removed there seems no reason not to get going on building it.

The sooner we get the stadium underway, the sooner we will see if the CSA's investor actually exists.

[argh1]

Noooooo, linking up with a foriegn league won't help Canadian soccer. But stiffle it. One or two teams will only make the rest of Canada look minor league.

MLB hasn't helped Canadian Baseball NBA sure hasn't helped Canadian basketball.

Will Canadians grow up and stand on their own......please.

Yes ....I can hear the NHL arguments , but please we breath hockey.

Let the Yankees keep that thing they call major ? league soccer . Although the constant search to bring in Hispanic $$ shows it may not be that healthy .

We have A-League and if it's not major enuff ..........oh well, give Canadian clubs a chance to grow before we join a foriegn league 97% don't give a crap about.

[Timotas]

Maybe we should have a league of our own which is Canada-wide, not Ontario-wide (CPSL). Wasn't there something proposed like 3 years ago? CUSL I believe? The league included teams such as, Lynx, Whitecaps, Hamilton Steelers, Impact, Ottawa Wizards, etc. And the CUSL 2nd Division was teams from the CPSL, like London City, North York, etc. I could be making up things, I dunno. But the only way we'll ever get respect from FIFA and the world is if we start our own professional league. This arguement has been going out forever now, just I don't wanna to let it go, I want Canada to have their own league! Eventually if the league evolves, we'll be getting older players like Gazza, Romario, etc. ending their careers here, trying to promote the game, like Pele and Beckbauner when they played in the States years back. Maybe I'm just wishing for something that won't happen.

[DoyleG]

The problem is that an MLS team in Canada will likely conform to the rules that were set out by MLS and the USSF. Any team that does would likely leave the CSA out of any matters.

No doubt Chivas will follow the rules while being able to put together a strong team.

[Mimglow]

Short-sightedness aside, MLS expansion into Canada would kill any dream of a Canadian League. Let us play the American teams in the proper competition; the CONCACAF Champions Cup. This is where the CSA should be concentrating its efforts right now.

[Blue and White Army]

Two teams in one city? What a stupid move.

The MLS is trying not to repeat mistakes made by the NASL, but unfortunately are repeating the same blunders made by the J.League.

[MikeD]

I disagree that MLS expansion into Canada would hurt Canadian soccer. On the contrary, it would create more opportunities for Canadians to play soccer at home at a higher level than the A-League offers and over a longer season.

Don't think the Expos and Jays have helped Canadian baseball? Look how many Canadians are in the major leagues now vs. twenty years ago. Kids who grew up with the Jays and Expos grew up wanting to play pro ball and this dramatically increased the number of Canadians in the majors. Even though major leaguers don't play for the Canadian national baseball team, our national team has gotten better because there are more Canadians in the minor league system and is now way more competitive than it was 10 or 20 years ago.

The same phenomenon is beginning to happen with basketball thanks to the Raptors. Our Canadian national basketball team will reap the benefits of this with more NBA players to call upon in the years to come.

Seeing competitions like the World Cup, the Euros, the Champions League, the English Premiership and Serie A on TV has the same effect of inspiring young Canadians to want to play soccer, but the downside of this is the "Hargreaves effect" (ie. the end up wanting to English/Italian/whatever soccer stars rather than Canadian soccer stars). A Canadian team in MLS would give our kids a chance to dream of being stars in Canada.

Now you may be thinking "well, Mike, a Canadian league would give them the same opportunity to dream of being stars in Canada as a Canadian MLS team would." To this I respond - look at the CFL. How many young Canadian gridiron football players dream of growing up to be stars in the CFL? Some do, yes, but most dream of making it big in the NFL. The CFL is seen by most as a minor-league alternative to the NFL, the same way a Canadian soccer league will always be seen next to MLS.

My preferred scenario? MLS teams in our largest markets (Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver) with strong A-League teams in smaller markets (Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Ottawa, etc...) and Canadian Open Cup for them to all compete for to earn spots in international club competitions.

Alright, I've said my piece - now I'll go put on my flame-proof suit!

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by MikeD

Don't think the Expos and Jays have helped Canadian baseball? Look how many Canadians are in the major leagues now vs. twenty years ago. Kids who grew up with the Jays and Expos grew up wanting to play pro ball and this dramatically increased the number of Canadians in the majors. Even though major leaguers don't play for the Canadian national baseball team, our national team has gotten better because there are more Canadians in the minor league system and is now way more competitive than it was 10 or 20 years ago.

I'm not sure you can attribute the fact that there are more Canadians in baseball to the fact that we have a couple of MLB teams in Canada. There are more foreigners overall in MLB and the minor leagues, and there aren't MLB teams in any of those other countries (ie. it is probably more about how baseball has changed overall).

quote:My preferred scenario? MLS teams in our largest markets (Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver) with strong A-League teams in smaller markets (Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Ottawa, etc...) and Canadian Open Cup for them to all compete for to earn spots in international club competitions.

Can A-League clubs thrive in these other cities if there are MLS teams in the big three? I am concerned about the gap that would be created. I want all our teams together.

But this is such an old debate. [|)]

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by MikeD

I disagree that MLS expansion into Canada would hurt Canadian soccer. On the contrary, it would create more opportunities for Canadians to play soccer at home at a higher level than the A-League offers and over a longer season.

One must learn to crawl (A-League or Canadian national league) before one can walk (The rest of the world).

quote:Originally posted by MikeD

Don't think the Expos and Jays have helped Canadian baseball? Look how many Canadians are in the major leagues now vs. twenty years ago. Kids who grew up with the Jays and Expos grew up wanting to play pro ball and this dramatically increased the number of Canadians in the majors. Even though major leaguers don't play for the Canadian national baseball team, our national team has gotten better because there are more Canadians in the minor league system and is now way more competitive than it was 10 or 20 years ago.

There have always been Canadians playing pro baseball. It just seems that you haven't noticed that much. You can thank all other factors except the Jays and Expos for the success and survival of baseball in Canada. The real thanks should be to the US college system for developing the players.

quote:Originally posted by MikeD

The same phenomenon is beginning to happen with basketball thanks to the Raptors. Our Canadian national basketball team will reap the benefits of this with more NBA players to call upon in the years to come.

Once again, other factors can be thanked for the success of basketball in Canada. The Raptors ain't one of them.

With the players we/might have in the NBA, only Nash can be considered reliable.

quote:Originally posted by MikeD

Seeing competitions like the World Cup, the Euros, the Champions League, the English Premiership and Serie A on TV has the same effect of inspiring young Canadians to want to play soccer, but the downside of this is the "Hargreaves effect" (ie. the end up wanting to English/Italian/whatever soccer stars rather than Canadian soccer stars). A Canadian team in MLS would give our kids a chance to dream of being stars in Canada.

The role of MLS is to provide a palce for AMERICANS to play. They don't give a damn about developing talent for other nations.

quote:Originally posted by MikeD

Now you may be thinking "well, Mike, a Canadian league would give them the same opportunity to dream of being stars in Canada as a Canadian MLS team would." To this I respond - look at the CFL. How many young Canadian gridiron football players dream of growing up to be stars in the CFL? Some do, yes, but most dream of making it big in the NFL. The CFL is seen by most as a minor-league alternative to the NFL, the same way a Canadian soccer league will always be seen next to MLS.

Most dream to be in the CFL. The CFL is big league. Deal with it.

quote:Originally posted by MikeD

My preferred scenario? MLS teams in our largest markets (Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver) with strong A-League teams in smaller markets (Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Ottawa, etc...) and Canadian Open Cup for them to all compete for to earn spots in international club competitions.

We can't afford one MLS team, let alone three of them. Even if we were to get one (drug-induced fantasy) it would still be the same. No one would give a damn. This has been proven with the Jays, Expos, Grizzlies, and Raptors.

quote:Originally posted by MikeD

Alright, I've said my piece - now I'll go put on my flame-proof suit!

Get your money back.

[MikeD]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

There have always been Canadians playing pro baseball. It just seems that you haven't noticed that much. You can thank all other factors except the Jays and Expos for the success and survival of baseball in Canada. The real thanks should be to the US college system for developing the players.

You're correct that there have always been Canadians in Major League Baseball but your rather flame-ish jab that I "haven't noticed that much" is not really a fair or accurate thing to say. I've followed baseball quite closely ever since I was a little kid and always paid special attention to Canadian major leaguers. There are currently about 17 Canadians in Major League Baseball (possibly one or two more that I may have missed) and several other good prospects in the minors (look for them in Athens). From the '60s until the mid '90s, there were never more than a handful. That's an enormous increase and the timing of this sudden increase is directly attributable to kids who grew up following the Blue Jays reaching adulthood.

Yes, the US college system deserves credit for developing our kids, but first our kids have to be good enough to get into the top NCAA schools and the Jays are the main reason we're developing more kids who are good enough for the NCAA.

quote:The role of MLS is to provide a palce for AMERICANS to play. They don't give a damn about developing talent for other nations.

Sure, but a Canadian MLS team would have to treat Canadians as domestic players. That would open up about sixteen roster spots for Canadians in MLS. That's more Canadians that we now have playing in any other pro league except the A-League.

quote:Most dream to be in the CFL. The CFL is big league. Deal with it.

What's to deal with? I'm sure you believe that the CFL is "big league" and I applaud you for your patriotism. However, when I look at the fact that, every year, the top CFLers try out for NFL teams only a handful of the very best are able to make the jump that tells me it's a minor league. I respect your opinion, and that of the many other Canadians who agree with you, but I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

quote:We can't afford one MLS team, let alone three of them. Even if we were to get one (drug-induced fantasy) it would still be the same. No one would give a damn. This has been proven with the Jays, Expos, Grizzlies, and Raptors.

Well, no, you and I can't afford an MLS team (unless I win the 6/49 tomorrow). But there are Canadians out there who can and, once we get a new stadium in Toronto, the infrastructure will be there as well.

And, no, I haven't consumed any drugs since my undergradute university days (almost ten years ago). However, I do still enjoy the odd pint and I hope we can shake hands and continue this discussion in a friendly manner when the Voyageurs-up meet at the Sherlock Holmes pub in Edmonton before the Canada-Honduras match.

[beachesl]

Well I'm not a big fan of the MLS, and I seldom watch it because I'm happy with the number of matches I can get on basic cable. My gut reacts against the notion of having 1 or 2 or 3 Canadian teams in the MLS, because I am a bit of a nationalist and want to see a top truly Canadian league some day (though it is something probably not happening in my lifetime given the practicalities and history). I'm largely happy with the situation we have now for the A-League Canadian teams, especially as it is a good way to assist the B team and well as provide relatively good football to us.

I was thinking about the most positive things about the possibility having an MLS team in Canada. It will not attract most of the top Canadian players now in Europe or a lot in the future that could make it there, because of the lower pay and the very restrictive contracts. It would attract many of our A team non-starters though.

I am thinking now, after reading a post on bigsoccer dealing with what happens to college graduates, that the best thing about having a Canadian MLS team MAY be the avenue it MIGHT afford for our more successful Candainan graduates from the US college leagues who might otherwise fall through the cracks.

There have been dozens of Canadians over the years that have thrived quite succesfully over the years in the US College soccer scene, but after finishing, few have made a scene in the higher leagues or internationally. Of the current players who have played for Canada Senior Men's Team in any role over the past few years (and so far it has been peripheral), only Jason Bent (who played at the University of Maryland, played two seasons with Plymouth of England 2nd, but let go for injury reasons and now looking), Nikola Budalic (James Madison University, now the Montreal Impact of A-League), Davide Xausa (University of Portland, now with Vancouver Whitecaps of A-League) and Simpson (just left University of Portland with one year left to join Milwall of English 1st Dvision).

The incredible potential of the great Canadian young footballers going to US College has largely been dismally wasted after US college in soccer terms.

There are various reasons.

One is that the most natural avenues of progression into professional soccer along with their Yank teamates, the MLS, is largely closed to them because of the restrictive import quotas (after all, the MLS is primarily an American development league, and a very succesful one at that). The few openings for foreigners are reserved for the more experienced players who have proved themselves in other professional leagues and can make an immediate impact, such as non-college guys De Rosario and Onstad. Therefore, the most natural progression is to the A-League, and the opportunity to advance from there (if they want to take the chance in a very low-paying league instead of getting a civilian career) is low.

Another is that by the time they are finished college, they are to old to fit into the development system in the Europe leagues clubs where their US college experience is usually looked down on, especially in England (the MLS however is eager and successful in integrating graduates from the US college system).

Simpson is a rare example of a Canadian product of the US College system (although he had to leave his college early to grab the chance) to have made it (at least this far) into the higher levels of European soccer (and that was not because of his college success or even success at the World Youth Cup, which is disdained in England, but rather because he happened to have the opprtunity to shine in an exhibiton match against one of England's top 3 dozen clubs).

What do we need to do?

Having a professional league in Canada would help, but this is simply not practical at a level of the MLS. It's been tried and failed.

What about having an MLS team or two in Canada, with the import quotas for Canadians instead of Americans? That has a lot of promise for the grads, even if a lot of Canadian fans are hostile to the branch plant system.

Until opportunities change for Canadians leaving the college system, then the only plausible avenue for most young Canadians to successfully advance to the professional or international scene is to take the plunge pre-college and go to the youth development systems of European clubs. This is unfortunate, because of the numerous pitfalls they face. The US college scholarship route is still the best one in terms of personal and broader career development, and would be my recommendation in the vast majority of cases for young players I would talk to, as there is far less chance of ending up on the dung heap of failed dreams. And a few college grads have gone on to have satisfying pre-careers in bottom or middle-level football for a few years in places like Belgium, Croatia or Switzerland. They don't get rich, but they do fulfill a lot of personal ambition and satisfaction in a certain way. However, it makes it very difficult in a practical sense to be the world class footballer they dream of becoming.

Against my better judgement maybe, we should openly explore these and other possible benefits of jumping into the MLS, even with the negatives staring us in the face. Just pondering.

[?]

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by MikeD

You're correct that there have always been Canadians in Major League Baseball but your rather flame-ish jab that I "haven't noticed that much" is not really a fair or accurate thing to say. I've followed baseball quite closely ever since I was a little kid and always paid special attention to Canadian major leaguers. There are currently about 17 Canadians in Major League Baseball (possibly one or two more that I may have missed) and several other good prospects in the minors (look for them in Athens). From the '60s until the mid '90s, there were never more than a handful. That's an enormous increase and the timing of this sudden increase is directly attributable to kids who grew up following the Blue Jays reaching adulthood.

Thank the Blue Jays? Oh please! You can do better than that. To thank the Blue jays for building baseball is like thanking Chretien for a clean gov't.

quote:Originally posted by MikeD

Yes, the US college system deserves credit for developing our kids, but first our kids have to be good enough to get into the top NCAA schools and the Jays are the main reason we're developing more kids who are good enough for the NCAA.

This sounds a lot less reason and more of a "I worship the Jays" thread.

quote:Originally posted by MikeD

Sure, but a Canadian MLS team would have to treat Canadians as domestic players. That would open up about sixteen roster spots for Canadians in MLS. That's more Canadians that we now have playing in any other pro league except the A-League.

No they don't. your basing everything on the MLS changing it's rules. it won't change the rules if they know it will affect the whole league. You can't base ideas on plans that aren't realistic to being with. Much like the Aviators business plan.

quote:Originally posted by MikeD

What's to deal with? I'm sure you believe that the CFL is "big league" and I applaud you for your patriotism. However, when I look at the fact that, every year, the top CFLers try out for NFL teams only a handful of the very best are able to make the jump that tells me it's a minor league. I respect your opinion, and that of the many other Canadians who agree with you, but I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Most Canadians and Most Americans will agree that the CFL is 'big time' football. Your posts are starting to look like an inferiority complex than getting soccer moving in this country.

quote:Originally posted by MikeD

Well, no, you and I can't afford an MLS team (unless I win the 6/49 tomorrow). But there are Canadians out there who can and, once we get a new stadium in Toronto, the infrastructure will be there as well.

You have a stadium that can be used, it's called Skydome. If there was anyone really serious about even brining an MLS to TO we would've already heard about them.

[SABuffalo786]

quote:Originally posted by Blue and White Army

Two teams in one city? What a stupid move.

The MLS is trying not to repeat mistakes made by the NASL, but unfortunately are repeating the same blunders made by the J.League.

Apples and oranges, IMO.

Say what you will about the decision, but the LA derby is going to be vicious. And it's definitley one of the things the league needs. SJ-LA is Ok, but like most pro rivalries in the states, it's tempered by distance. America is going to get its first real taste of local derby passion. I just hope it doesn't get violent, or racist for that matter.

[Former Champ]

Good banter between MikeD and Doyle.

Gotta side with the westerner, as the last thing Canada needs is the Republic of Toronto to be the only Canadian side in an another American league.

TORONTO UBER ALLES, says the western craphead.

[argh1]

I wish I'd thought of that Republic of Toronto tag, good one . [}]

Anyways , I wanted to respond to the CFL isn't major league statement.

By what standards ? Let's check 2003 average attendances .

NFL 66,726

MLB 28,051

CFL 25,240

NBA 17,059

NHL 16,533

MLS 14,932

AFL 11,397

NLL 8,710

EDIT :

A-LEAGUE 3,335 for the record

SOURCE : www.kenn.com

CFL , all 2004 games televised in Canada except.....

Aug 12 EDM @ WPG

Sept 19 SSK @ HAM

Sept 25 TOR @ EDM

SOURCE : www.cfl.ca

CFL international broadacasts check out link for schedule.

The question is ......Is MLS as major league as the CFL ?

[Former Champ]

I'm not a big football fan, but i do cherish the CFL. It's all we got. When they started their regional rivalry promotion campaign, it really worked great. Just check the playoff attendances for last year.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by Blue and White Army

Two teams in one city? What a stupid move.

The MLS is trying not to repeat mistakes made by the NASL, but unfortunately are repeating the same blunders made by the J.League.

The difference here is that the Galaxy have a strong fan base. I won't expect Chivas to take anything away from them as they will be looking elsewhere to build a fan base of their own.

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by SABuffalo786

I just hope it doesn't get violent, or racist for that matter.

Guess it's going to help having both sides play out of the Home Depot Center. Think things would be different if Chivas USA had their own stadium, or played out of a venue in a more Latin quarter of LA.

It's already a racial thing isn't it? I'm not going to even guess the racial mix at a Galaxy game but I can guess what the Chivas USA suppport will look like. And it'll look exactly the way MLS wants it to.

And this is a good thing is it?

You'd think a center the size of LA should be able to support a couple of MLS clubs. And I'll agree this is exactly the sort of derby NA football needs. But this all sounds a little too dodgy to me. I know you can't ignore the ethnic nature of LA. And that ethnic nature can be mirrored in geography, but this is an idea who's time maybe should never have come.

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta I know you can't ignore the ethnic nature of LA. And that ethnic nature can be mirrored in geography, but this is an idea who's time maybe should never have come.

Like the Prots of Rangers vs the Papists of Celtic?

[Marc]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

No they don't. your basing everything on the MLS changing it's rules. it won't change the rules if they know it will affect the whole league. You can't base ideas on plans that aren't realistic to being with. Much like the Aviators business plan.

This is a given. The MLS would not allow a Canadian entry into the league and then force them to play only 3 Canadians as their foreigners.

This would be both realistic and necessary.

So what you will about MLS expansion to Canada and it's potential/prospects, but if they ever did come up here, Canadians would not count as foreigners on the Canadian squad.

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by beachesl

Like the Prots of Rangers vs the Papists of Celtic?

That is exactly it.

The very second Chivas USA was announced with it's Mexican colours a-flowing in the wind the Galaxy became the club of white LA. Whether it was already or not, it is now.

Can something like that be avoided in a city like LA? I don't know. Is it a plan to get LA's latin population involved in MLS where they've otherwise been absent. Absolutely. Is it a good plan? Oy, I can see problems.

P.S. Now, now. Celtic's forgiving Catholic nature has always allowed the club to sign and play heathens. Right from day one. It took Rangers 100 years and well into my lifetime before they saw the light to let a catholic on board.

So now we know who's to blame for all the Old Firm woes and who's innocent don't we? IRA recruitment and pitch invasions notwithstanding.