Arsenal - Fans and Rivals Enter Here!

[frostman]

quote:Originally posted by ted

WHOREGREAVES WILL BE A SPUR!!!!!!!

Whoo hoooo! [}]

Ther have been so many rumours he would be going to Arsenal and now I can hate him for being a traiterous liar and a Spur!

Sorry, just had to let the one out.

My favorite site is http://www.upthearse.net/ with the running clock of how long since Spurs won the league.

You, my son, are the best. I did not even know that site existed! I love it. Hargreaves (who I kind of liked before) is now on my hatespurs list.

[Gordon]

Excellent news on Viera indeed. Well, it will be very interesting indeed to see how the league plays out. It will be interesting to see if Wenger puts the Champions League ahead of the Premiership title this year. I think last year, the Prem was the primary goal.

[fan]

The recent world cups and euro cups have demonstrated the clear global agenda. Hitler was an amateur compared to most of these entrepreneurs like Abrahmovic. No longer can the the local son figure in plans of his fathers footsteps he has to settle for Mutu's dream.

I am a huge chelsea fan but the reign of ignorance since Abraham took over is filthy. My dad was a huge Arsenal fan but all of it is irrelevant now.

Money rules and the devine are dead nothing but bad wishes are left.

[Loud Mouth Soup]

quote:Originally posted by fan

The recent world cups and euro cups have demonstrated the clear global agenda. Hitler was an amateur compared to most of these entrepreneurs like Abrahmovic. No longer can the the local son figure in plans of his fathers footsteps he has to settle for Mutu's dream.

I am a huge chelsea fan but the reign of ignorance since Abraham took over is filthy. My dad was a huge Arsenal fan but all of it is irrelevant now.

Money rules and the devine are dead nothing but bad wishes are left.

You're making what for breakfast?

[fan]

sorry that is sh#$% english.Just proves you shouldnt post after midnight.

" The recent world cups and euro cups have demonstrated the clear global agenda." meaning the unlimited importing of foreign players by clubs has weakened the national teams unique styles and cohesiveness

"Hitler was an amateur compared to most of these entrepreneurs like Abrahmovic"

What i mean is that Abhramovich is attempting to bring or buy a superior team of players and has more resources (certainly financial with his billions) than hitler did in his abhorrent attempt trying to create a superior race.

"but the reign of ignorance since Abraham took over is filthy"

Bringing in players at a rate that is disturbing because most of the other teams cant compete financially means they will lose solely because of money.So effectively the game is won at the bank not on the pitch entirely now.Abrahmovich shows that he doesnt care and has no interest in the integrity of the league or players.

Arsenal barely looks or plays english football anymore like most of the teams in the premiership now. I caant get excited about cheering for mats sundin in toronto so i cant imagine the brits are very excited about cheering for henry week in and week out.

[Gordon]

Not being English, Arsenal is a foreign team to me whether stocked with player from the United Kingdon or from every corner of the globe. They play far more attractive and entertaining football now, than they did in 1978, when I had the chance to see them live on several occasions, or at any time during their 1-0 era later on.

[frostman]

I understand the complex discussion over local players vs. imports. I see how leagues filled with cosmopolitan teams composed of various international superstars, can slowly erode a national team. But, in my lifetime I have never had the chance to chear for any team that was composed of only domestic players, or more specifically local players. I'm 30. The NHL has always had European, and/or US players on most teams in my world. Even if they were Canadian, they were often from the prairies or Quebec. In soccer for example the most legendary Man U player of all time was Irish. Real Madrid in the 50's has had various international stars. And it seems strange that although the EPL's top teams are being developed using international talent as players and coaches n- and that this process degrades the national team - then why is it that England have been doing better in the last few European championships and world cups than they have for twenty years or more? Who knows, but my dad would agree with you, and talk about the days when the Arsenal players all worked together at the factory, and would still find time to beat the engineers and wealthy academics on the Chelsea club. Those days are gone. Chelsea is an English league anomoly with deep pockets as an owner. But holy Shyte are they exciting to watch right now. Take a look at Arsenal, who spent less on their new stadium than Chelsea did on mid-summer signings over the last couple years, they're very competitive. So, it's not all about money. Wenger has the uncanny ability to find hidden gems like Henry, Vieira, Reyes, Van Persie, Flamini, Pires. All of these were going stale, or completely unknown before he brought them to Arsenal.

Why did Valencia beat Real and Barca last year in Spain?

Why did Middlesboro win the Carling Cup?

Why did clubs like Monaco, Marseille, and Porto do so well in Uefa and Champions league last year? If anything, all money seemed to get last year was ego's and fired.

Go Gunners!

[frostman]

Oh, and did anyone see Arsenal kick the bejesous out of Everton on the weekend? They even had a 17 year old in midfield for 90 minutes (Fabergas).

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by frostman

Oh, and did anyone see Arsenal kick the bejesous out of Everton on the weekend? They even had a 17 year old in midfield for 90 minutes (Fabergas).

Yeah, CESC definitely looked comfortable out there against Everton.

BTW, Chelsea didn't look that great against Man United. And they didn't win anything at all last year so I wouldn't say that games are won and lost at the bank.

[frostman]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Yeah, CESC definitely looked comfortable out there against Everton.

BTW, Chelsea didn't look that great against Man United. And they didn't win anything at all last year so I wouldn't say that games are won and lost at the bank.

Cesc looked very impressive. Was it only because they were playing Everton though? I mean, I didn't even notice the absence of Vieira.

Regarding the money issue. I know that I am an adamant Arsenal fan by heart. However, as an objective observer of the business of sports in general, I must say that Arsene Wenger has made good prospect after good prospect, recruiting and buying fantastic unknown commodities. Many of them aren't complete unknowns and they do often command a fairly large price tag. But not at all like the known, and expensive commodities, that Chelsea, and even Man U are known to pull the trigger on. Arsenal is considered to be a big money club in the EPL, but they are in no way comparable to Man U, Chelsea, and Liverpool. I don't know all of the facts, so this is all perception. Does anyone know where we can compare roster budgets?

[Loud Mouth Soup]

Expect the mullet to be gone some time in the next week, according to the kid himself.

And I am pleased to say that I may soon be in possession of a lock of his mullet after it is...detached. Yup, those were extensions, not his real hair. Maybe it'll be worth millions one day...

[fan]

Those are good points frostman and I agree some teams will prosper still from intelligent coaching and good team play but i think its fading rapidly.

England did do bettter in even though coached by a swede I concede that.

But again its a closing window.

My opinion is i wouldnt trade the excitement of the all star teams for the community and developement of exciting differing styles of local teams and national squads.The end result is usually a boring homongenized bland product that rarely causes developement of the game.The local teams lose there motivation for cheering and supporting and the national squads dwindle.

Porto and valencia kept most of their players together and were from their own country and i agree with that strategy.

I like to see 2 or 3 import players definitely but thats the limit.

[amacpher]

quote:

Porto and valencia kept most of their players together and were from their own country and i agree with that strategy.

I like to see 2 or 3 import players definitely but thats the limit.

Except Porto and Valencia were two of the more boring teams to watch last season. I agree that keeping players together on the same team can really be beneficial, but player movement does NOT reduce excitement in the sport. In fact, just the opposite - it adds more excitement.

As far as Arsenal being a big spending club? That is rubbish! They're at the same level as Tottenham. The only difference is Arsenal does a better job of recruiting and developing players and therefore eventually have to pay more money on player wages because their players become so good. Even Henry was nothing before moving to Arsenal.

[frostman]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Except Porto and Valencia were two of the more boring teams to watch last season. I agree that keeping players together on the same team can really be beneficial, but player movement does NOT reduce excitement in the sport. In fact, just the opposite - it adds more excitement.

As far as Arsenal being a big spending club? That is rubbish! They're at the same level as Tottenham. The only difference is Arsenal does a better job of recruiting and developing players and therefore eventually have to pay more money on player wages because their players become so good. Even Henry was nothing before moving to Arsenal.

I agree 100%. I sais earlier in the thread that, although Arsenal are considered to be one of the big spending clubs, they are not comparable to others in their same quality calibre. Man U and Chelsea really spend. Wenger has an incredible star finding talent for much reduced finder fees. Take a look at CESC.

[Loud Mouth Soup]

The mullet is gone from Cesc.

Extensions and excess hair cut off last night.

The mullet is dead. Long live the mullet.

[frostman]

quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

The mullet is gone from Cesc.

Extensions and excess hair cut off last night.

The mullet is dead. Long live the mullet.

What?! That was fast! I hope it's not a mighty Samson situation where he'll lose his mystical powers. That kid was somethin else against Everton!

[frostman]

quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

The mullet is gone from Cesc.

Extensions and excess hair cut off last night.

The mullet is dead. Long live the mullet.

What?! That was fast! I hope it's not a mighty Samson situation where he'll lose his mystical powers. That kid was somethin else against Everton!

[Loud Mouth Soup]

Cesc may be in the line-up Sunday, but Paddy is reported fit and in line for a possible appearance. Cesc is uncertain if he'll start or not.

[frostman]

42 Games! The Longest in EPL history (Tied with Nottingham Forest fro 1977). Next game takes the lead! What a team! I could watch the game on Sunday, but the highlights. Clawing back from a 3-1 deficit to win with style 5-3! Henry, Reyes, Bergkhamp.....! Everyone looked fantastic. They better watch it though, that wouldn't work against one of the more formidable clubs. We really need Sol Campbell back. Cygan tends to make a few extra deadly mistakes.

Go Gunners!

[amacpher]

Yeah, they miss Vieira and Campbell. Altho I disagree when you say that comeback wouldn't work against one of the more formidable clubs. Nobody comes back like the Arsenal. They did it like 3 times against Chelsea last year and lets not forget their 5 goal game at the San Siro. And, btw, M'boro are probably the 5th or 6th best team in England.

Sucks that Fox is showing the Newcastle x Norwich snoozer tomorrow instead of Arsenal going for the record against Blackburn.

[frostman]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Yeah, they miss Vieira and Campbell. Altho I disagree when you say that comeback wouldn't work against one of the more formidable clubs. Nobody comes back like the Arsenal. They did it like 3 times against Chelsea last year and lets not forget their 5 goal game at the San Siro. And, btw, M'boro are probably the 5th or 6th best team in England.

Sucks that Fox is showing the Newcastle x Norwich snoozer tomorrow instead of Arsenal going for the record against Blackburn.

True about the comebacks. If I was another club, and I had a two goal lead over Arsenal, I wouldn't get too cozy. But, I would want to be down 2-nil against the likes of a Chelsea or a Man U.

M'boro do look exciting this year. In fact, the battle for spots 4th through 7 in the EPL looks as tight and unpredictable as it ever has. So much high profile action this summer. I guess that's why the EPL is always really interesting to watch unfold.

I am pissed off about the TV rights to the record breaking games. I couldn't watch the M'boro game on Sunday, and I can't watch the Blackburn game todat (Wednesday). You know because of their historical importance, someone like Sky picked up the rights and is going pay-per-view. I hate it! The Sunday game was a freakin game of the season battle royal!

[beachesl]

I am not a fan of the Gunners, but I have to admire the way they took Norwich apart. Here is an article by David Lacey in the Guardian that colects some of my thoughts while watching the dismemberment on Saturday.

------------------------------------------------------------

Arsenal Arts Border on Cruelty

David Lacey at Carrow Road

Monday August 30, 2004

The Guardian

It is often difficult to see how winning teams can lose. That, after all, is why they are winning teams. In the case of the present Arsenal side, however, it is well-nigh impossible to envisage circumstances in which they might again be beaten in the Premiership.

It will happen eventually, but when? Sooner or later Arsène Wenger's players are bound to have an off-day but, as last season demonstrated, an off-day for Arsenal is not necessarily an on-day for their opponents.

Arsenal may not be flawless, defensively they can be got at but the getting-at means teams taking risks, which at the moment Wenger's attack is punishing with a ruthlessness that borders on the sadistic. There were times in the first half when Thierry Henry should have been reported to the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Canaries.

The assumption is that, if Arsenal are to lose in the near future, it will be against Chelsea or a full-strength Manchester United. Or maybe one of the lumpen proletariat that make up the bulk of the Premiership will be kings for a day.

It was never going to happen at Norwich, where memories of a 4-2 triumph at Highbury on the inaugural day of the Premiership 12 years ago were banished to pre-history as Nigel Worthington's worthy artisans were given a lesson in the finer arts.

Having taken a 3-0 lead before half-time, Arsenal spent the rest of the match standing back to admire their handiwork. As they relaxed, Norwich reassembled their game and their confidence sufficiently to score with a penalty from the persevering Darren Huckerby, who then drew a sharp save from Jens Lehmann followed by another to keep out a shot by Gary Holt.

Yet the margin of victory still depended on how many goals Arsenal wanted to add and in the end one more, in the closing seconds by Dennis Bergkamp, sufficed. Norwich could take some consolation from knowing that they did not lose 4-1 at home to Arsenal so abjectly as Everton on the opening weekend.

While supporters will never enjoy the spectacle of their team being systematically outclassed, there comes a point when there is nothing left for it but to give the conquerors their due. If Carrow Road did not go as far as to repeat the standing ovation Arsenal received at Fratton Park last season after beating Portsmouth 5-1 in the FA Cup, the Norwich fans certainly went home murmuring their admiration.

At their own level Norwich are a useful side and, in recovering from 2-0 down to force a draw at Newcastle three nights earlier, they had proved themselves capable of holding fair-to-middling Premiership opposition. But, as Worthington observed after Saturday's match: "Arsenal have taken football to another level."

Quite so. This was Formula Three trying to keep up with Formula One and longing for Henry to have a pit stop. Trying to catch him must have been like trying to pursue someone through a maze of mirrors and becoming confused between reflections and reality.

Once Henry had outpaced five opponents to set up a tap-in for José Antonio Reyes midway through the first half, any semblance of a serious contest disappeared. Nine minutes before half-time a rare header from Henry rounded off a movement involving himself, Lauren, Cesc Fábregas and Fredrik Ljungberg which, Worthington confessed, "I almost applauded myself."

Another four minutes and, as Adam Drury loosely chested down a ball from Henry, Ljungberg dispossessed him before leaving Robert Pires to score Arsenal's third. Then Henry gave himself and Norwich a rest only to re-emerge at the last with the precise cross which left Bergkamp, who had relieved Reyes, to complete the win.

"Lucky old Arsenal" is a cry from the distant past but Lauren was fortunate to stay on the field after grabbing Huckerby by the shoulder as the Norwich player's speed caught Arsenal on the break after half an hour. There was nobody between Huckerby and Lehmann but Graham Poll let Lauren off with a caution.

So Huckerby deserved his penalty, given after Justin Hoyte, a late call-up after Pascal Cygan pulled a calf muscle in the warm-up, brought him down. For Norwich, the attacking partnership of Huckerby and Gary Doherty has possibilities, but unless their defending quickens up they are not going to win many games.

[frostman]

I am definately a long-time huge supporter of Arsenal (that's why I started this thread.) I am however a realist, and an admirerer of sport in general. I often try to watch Arsenal matches as an impartial observer to attempt to truly see their strengths an weaknesses. Here are my thoughts:

Henry is obviously fantastic overall. He is a constant testament to Wenger's football vision and scouting ability. Wenger placed him in an environment (supporting cast as well as position change) that allowed him to flourish. Henry, on the other hand, is truly emerging as a leader (ex. passing to his new strike partner when he could have potted it himself)

Arsenal have some defined weaknesses on defense. Sol is surely missed, and Cygan is somewhat of a liability in a league that scores so many goals. Cole, although gifted offensively, still needs a subtle hint of defense (like he did in Euro'04). But the Gunners counter attack has been making up for their sometimes questionable defense (the threat of it helps keep other teams cautious in their own offensive strikes.)

Arsenal as a whole owe their success to Wenger. He has continuously added somewhat known, or hardly known commodities to the line-up, and turned them into household names (ie. Henry, Vieira, Lauren, Reyes, Fabergas*?!)

Here's what bugs me about Arsenal: What the hell is Henry doing with those pretty white gloves on cold days? Why the hell does he pull his socks up over his knees? Will Jens Lehman just give up over the fact that Germany play Khan over him? Why does Pires look like a Pirate? Why don't they just get one more English player? Cole and Sol don't know what everyone else is saying - poor blokes.

I think some of my comments are reflective of the article you posted, and some are my own yet commonly known.

The Gunners are yet to compete against a true competitor this season. Let's see how they do when they meet Chelsea.

[frostman]

Oh yeah, and one more thing........44.

[frostman]

Ooooooh! ....................45 and still going strong! You guys thought that I had disappeared, I was just keepin a little quiet out of respect for the WCQ games.

Freddie, and the Gypsy King. What a show. The OG was a nice touch too. Thanks Cottagers! May sound cocky, but the EPL seems like a practice league for the Gunners to try new things before Champ's League gets goin.

Why are they not showing freakin Arsenal games anymore on TV! What the hell am I going to do? They're playing all other games but the Gunners games! What the F***? Not on FSW, nor Sportnet?