Jarrek Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Matchday 2 Mexico 2 Uruguay 2 Argentina 6 Ecuador 1 A total blowout of Ecuador by Argentina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante79 Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Yea I expected Argentina to win but not 6-1 they destroyed Ecuador Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Don't we already have a Copa America thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrek Posted July 8, 2004 Author Share Posted July 8, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadienfan Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 How many countries are using B squads? And who are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Canadienfan How many countries are using B squads? And who are they? The Argentina squad is pretty strong. Half the starters of yesterday's game would start</u> for the 'real' national team too! quote:Originally posted by Dante79 Yea I expected Argentina to win but not 6-1 they destroyed Ecuador It is a very misleading scoreline. Midway thru the second-half the score was 1-1 and Argentina's only goal came on a bogus penalty call against Ecuador. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Copa discussion just died on here... With the 1-1 tie between Bolivia and Venezuela, here's the scenario: Colombia, Peru, Uruguay, Mexico, Brazil and Paraguay are guaranteed quarterfinal spots. Argentina will almost surely advance as well (only way they won't is if they lose to Uruguay and Ecuador defeat Mexico and the margins of victory total 10 goals). The only team definitely out is Venezuela (so much for my prediction ). Bolivia are hanging on by a thread (they need Chile and Costa Rica to draw 0-0, 1-1 or 2-2 (2-2 would result in a coin flip)). At least if my understanding of the rules and my calculations are correct... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 12 team tournaments are S T U P I D. 12 team tournaments smack dab in the middle of overdrawn mega WCQ qualifying campaigns are even S T U P I D E R Cancel the Gold Cup set for next summer NOW. Turn it into a pre-World Cup warmup, 8 team Concacaf Championship ( 2 groups of four, one playoff for each team) over 9 days, in January 2006 or early June 2006, or even in January 2007 to see who goes to 2007 Confederations Cup, if it still exists. Get with the program guys. Do something similiar with the Copa America farce. Better yet, combine the two Cups and use the qualifying from each confederation for the WCQ as well. That being said, still like the footwork on the Copa America matches I've seen so far. But that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Well, at least we've got two relatively interesting soccer games on TV every day. There's no other soccer on TV that I can get into consistently in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 quote:Originally posted by beachesl 12 team tournaments are S T U P I D. 12 team tournaments smack dab in the middle of overdrawn mega WCQ qualifying campaigns are even S T U P I D E R Cancel the Gold Cup set for next summer NOW. Turn it into a pre-World Cup warmup, 8 team Concacaf Championship ( 2 groups of four, one playoff for each team) over 9 days, in January 2006 or early June 2006, or even in January 2007 to see who goes to 2007 Confederations Cup, if it still exists. Get with the program guys. Do something similiar with the Copa America farce. Better yet, combine the two Cups and use the qualifying from each confederation for the WCQ as well. I couldn't agree less. Why would you wanna touch the S. American WCQ format??! It's the only completely fair qualifying campaign out there. And combine the Gold Cup with the Copa America?? No, no, no! Did you not watch that Brasil v Costa Rica game? [|)] And you could forget about Argentina (and others) fielding their 'A' squad if there were too many concacaf teams to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 I don't like the format either. A twelve team format where they play a group stage for about 10 days whose purpose is only to eliminate only four of the twelve teams. Plus they add two wild card teams. Adding Wild card teams in a fair competition only makes sence if you have teams playing other teams outside their divison or group. The best IMO would be a sixteen team format with 10 south american teams and the six concacaf teams who reached the hex in the previous WCQ. This way you eliminate the tournament qualifying games which are taxing on professional players. Then you would play this copa America every four years ( instead of two years) in the summer months in the year following the WC since that is the quietest period in terms of international events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Free kick The best IMO would be a sixteen team format with 10 south american teams and the six concacaf teams who reached the hex in the previous WCQ. This way you eliminate the tournament qualifying games which are taxing on professional players. Then you would play this copa America every four years ( instead of two years) in the summer months in the year following the WC since that is the quietest period in terms of international events. The problem with this format is that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. If a Concacaf team doesn't make the Hex (and there will be at least 2, if not more, quality sides from this region that don't make it in there this time round) then not only do they not make the World Cup, but they are shut out of the continental championships on top of that. So for example, if the Gold & Copa are combined & played next in 2007, if Canada doesn't make the Hex for 2005 they are shut out of any meaningful games until 2008 (the next time WCQ begins). With T&T, IMO an inferior team to Canada but nevertheless virtually guaranteed a spot in the Hex because of their unbelievably crappy semi-final group, they would get to play in the Hex & Copa while we sit (or alternatively Honduras or Costa Rica, all three of whom are better than T&T) get to sit on our asses and watch them. That's not appealing to me and I don't think it would be fair given that T&T gets this privilege because they had the honour of slipping past St. Kitts & St. Vincent. Concacaf's system right now is flawed enough as it is without having to use it as the qualifiers for the Continental championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 It's fine to criticize the Copa America format, but really it's not our (CONCACAF's) place to suggest combining the Gold Cup with it. Why should they care about us? It's their tournament and it's been around longer than any other national team tournament in the world. They've built it themselves, now we want in because we fail in our own attempts? What gives us the right to stick our noses into it? I say that we (CONCACAF) focus on the Gold Cup. Make it better, make it more significant. We shouldn't have to leech off the South Americans because we can't get our own tournament right. (By the way, replace "Copa America" with "American club soccer", "Gold Cup" with "Canadian club soccer", "CONCACAF" with "Canada" and other appropriate changes and I make the same argument, but that's another debate...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 quote:Originally posted by DJT It's fine to criticize the Copa America format, but really it's not our (CONCACAF's) place to suggest combining the Gold Cup with it. Why should they care about us? It's their tournament and it's been around longer than any other national team tournament in the world. They've built it themselves, now we want in because we fail in our own attempts? What gives us the right to stick our noses into it? But I thought we touched on this subject a few years ago, and it was revealed that it was Conmebol who had made the overtures to combine the two tournamets and it was The US representatives who objected to this notions. There is no such thing as leaching off of others in the business world or politics. I never think of these things in that perspective. As always, people come together cause there is mutual interest in doing so. And one could think of alot reasons why there would be interest from BOTH sides. From a purely discussion standpoint you have to agree that there is great deal that you could think of mutual interest from the South american sides in getting the largest economy in western world involved. This kind of remind me of the OLD debate about getting TO in the MLS. I senced, correctly if I am wrong, that you viewed this as some sort inferiority thing amongst canadian and the only an all Canadian league could manifest our strenght and prestige in the soccer world. I seem to recall a sentiment along the lines of : " why can't we have a real league of our own like the rest of the World". My viewpoint was that Mls would never expand to a canadian to do Canada a favour. They will do it because its in the best interest of the MLS as a whole to do. Until it is in their best interest, you will never see a club in TO or Vancouver, or Montreal. But if crowd are good, the right owners are in place, the facilities are there, there might become a benefit to expand. And that benefit has work in the interest of both parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 quote:Originally posted by DJT It's fine to criticize the Copa America format, but really it's not our (CONCACAF's) place to suggest combining the Gold Cup with it. Why should they care about us? It's their tournament and it's been around longer than any other national team tournament in the world. They've built it themselves, now we want in because we fail in our own attempts? What gives us the right to stick our noses into it? I say that we (CONCACAF) focus on the Gold Cup. Make it better, make it more significant. We shouldn't have to leech off the South Americans because we can't get our own tournament right. (By the way, replace "Copa America" with "American club soccer", "Gold Cup" with "Canadian club soccer", "CONCACAF" with "Canada" and other appropriate changes and I make the same argument, but that's another debate...) I totally agree with you. I find it hilarious to see Canucks slagging the tournament and suggesting wonderful ways to make it better. Makes us sound like provincial mutts. If we don't like it that's our problem. Also great to find Canadians criticizing the best third place solution since it is what got us into the final 16 in the last Youth Cup. And gee, don't think anyone complained about that back then, after a win and two losses in the first round. Imagine, a team with an even record (2-2)in the quarter finals, that was not at all serious. That said, sure it would be nice and sweet and all for us Canadians to find another format for them, but I doubt it will happen, it is their tournament and I doubt they'll make concessions for Concacaf. By taking some of the better sides in our region they complement their own tournament just fine, while the one with real problems is ours, where teams not even recognized by FIFA compete (though I still want to win it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. I totally agree with you. I find it hilarious to see Canucks slagging the tournament and suggesting wonderful ways to make it better. I don't see anything inconsistant with that. Can't speak for others, but I was critical of the play in Copa. Particularly in that group A based on play in the first night of action. The following games in that group were somewhat better, but not by much. I haven't changed my views on that. There were some decent games after that, but overall, I still content that the overall quality is substantially inferior to Euro. But if you think that canada should be focusing on touraments like Copa instead of the world cup, then canada would have to be playing in it no? It would be just another Gold cup but with more sides. quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Also great to find Canadians criticizing the best third place solution since it is what got us into the final 16 in the last Youth Cup. And gee, don't think anyone complained about that back then, after a win and two losses in the first round. Imagine, a team with an even record (2-2)in the quarter finals, that was not at all serious. Again, how is that inconsistant? I am happy that the Youth side advanced. The tournment format allowed for four of the six third plae finishers to advance. I am happy they advanced and they earned it. But it doesn't mean that I have to like the format. Would it not be hypocritical to say I don't like the format and change when it benefits our sides. quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. That said, sure it would be nice and sweet and all for us Canadians to find another format for them, but I doubt it will happen, it is their tournament and I doubt they'll make concessions for Concacaf. Will if they don't and it is their tournament, then there is no point even discussing how canada should put greater emphasis on these events, if it isn't going to play in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Did anyone see that coyote that got out of the pitch during the Arg-Uru match and started stolling at a liesurely pace accross the pitch. Never seen anything like that before. The argentinians were about to take a corner kick, then there was a delay and the cameras focus on what seemed like a coyote, fox or wolf. Certainly not a dog. I was even more surprised by the reaction of the players, commentators, fans and the stadium crew. There was none, it was as if this was nothing out of the ordinary. The players waited for the animal to get to the other side of pitch but did not looked surprised or even humoured by this. There was no humourous reaction that I could detect from my limited spanish from the commentators nor the fans in stadium. There was no stadium crew to be seen trying to sway away or chase the animal. I think that may top that JimmyJump fellow who threw Barca flag at Figo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Did anyone see that coyote that got out of the pitch during the Arg-Uru match and started stolling at a liesurely pace accross the pitch. Never seen anything like that before. The argentinians were about to take a corner kick, then there was a delay and the cameras focus on what seemed like a coyote, fox or wolf. Certainly not a dog. I was even more surprised by the reaction of the players, commentators, fans and the stadium crew. There was none, it was as if this was nothing out of the ordinary. The players waited for the animal to get to the other side of pitch but did not looked surprised or even humoured by this. There was no humourous reaction that I could detect from my limited spanish from the commentators nor the fans in stadium. There was no stadium crew to be seen trying to sway away or chase the animal. I thought it was a dog. Pretty funny, but a very entertaining game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante79 Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 I dont agree with you Free kick when u said that Africa was better than Copa Amerca! Copa is way better than the African cup!dont forget that South American soccer is one of the nicest in the world.....Am not saying that the African cup is not good I watched the games too on TV5 but please! you cant compaire them Copa America is way better than the African cup! not because am south american but its the truth....buy saying that I dont want to disrespect or ofend any African that read this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Free kick I don't like the format either. A twelve team format where they play a group stage for about 10 days whose purpose is only to eliminate only four of the twelve teams. That's kind of splitting hairs though. I guess ideally the best format would be two groups of 5 teams, where the top 2 advance in each group. That would eliminate 6 teams over about a 14-day period. Now it's 4 teams over a 9-day period. Meh ... quote:Originally posted by Free kick Plus they add two wild card teams. Adding Wild card teams in a fair competition only makes sence if you have teams playing other teams outside their divison or group. True, its a little unfair, but its done everywhere in North America (NHL, MLB, NBA, etc). My theory is: "the stupidity of a tournament's format is inversely proportional to the distance of that tournament's location from North America." So don't expect anything perfect to come from S. america. BTW, this theory applies to all levels in any sport, clubs or countries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Free kick I don't see anything inconsistant with that. Can't speak for others, but I was critical of the play in Copa. Particularly in that group A based on play in the first night of action. The following games in that group were somewhat better, but not by much. I haven't changed my views on that. There were some decent games after that, but overall, I still content that the overall quality is substantially inferior to Euro. But if you think that canada should be focusing on touraments like Copa instead of the world cup, then canada would have to be playing in it no? It would be just another Gold cup but with more sides. I'll agree with you on that, the EuroCup was better football. Also helps that teams actually have to qualify, and of course once every four years makes it more crucial for all sides, greater urgency. Can't say though how much I'd love to see Canada in there as one of the invited sides on the basis of winning the Gold Cup. What are they going to do in 2 years time when it coincides with the World Cup? I think this year's was put back one year (or did I get that mixed up), but in any case can't see how it could coincide at all. Or maybe the SA qualified teams would play it before the WC as a warm-up, seeing the won't have played qualifiers since at most the previous November-December (Oceania-Comebol playoff). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted July 14, 2004 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Actually, the next scheduled COpa America is 2007 in Venezuela, so no conflict with the World Cup. It is actually good timing then, as it would be a good warmup for the next 2 1/2 year South American qualifying for 2010 WC. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/soccer/07/11/bc.la.spt.soc.copaameri.ap/ As is usual for tournaments held in South America, we only have the year, the actual dates will be set much later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Did anyone see that totally fixed match between Chile and Costa Rica?? 4-on-1 break with 5 seconds to go? Gimme a break! This is why the starting times of the final group-stage matches should be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstackho Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Unfortunately I missed the end of the match. However, a 1-1 draw would have seen both Chile and Costa Rica eliminated, so it was in both teams' best interests to go for broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 I didn't see it, but what is the fix? sstackho is right, at 1-1 they'd both be out, a winner would advance, a loser would be out. If there was a fix they'd play for 3-3 (Sweden vs. Denmark style ). While I agree that the start times of the final matches should be the same (not that that would eliminate all possible fixes), in this case it's irrelevant as Brazil vs. Paraguay has nothing to do with this match or these teams. (See the scenarios I listed above.) EDIT: More about playing the final group-stage matches at the same time... Because of the third-place qualifiers, what you'd really need is for all final group-stage matches (cross all groups) to be played at the same time, but that's unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.