Copa America On TLN, lleno [R]

[beachesl]

Revised Results As Of July 7

("P" means points, not # matches played)

First Stage

Group A - Lima and Trujillo

teams P M W D L GS GA GD

Peru 1 1 - 1 - 2 2 0

Colombia 3 1 1 - - 1 - 1

Venezuela - 1 - - 1 - 1 -1

Bolivia 1 1 - 1 - 2 2 0

Matches City Local time GMT

06/07/2004 Lima 17h30 22h30 Colombia 1 x 0 Venezuela

06/07/2004 Lima 20h15 01h15 Peru 2 x 2 Bolivia

09/07/2004 Lima 17h30 22h30 Colombia - x - Bolivia

09/07/2004 Lima 19h45 00h45 Peru - x - Venezuela

12/07/2004 Trujillo 17h30 22h30 Venezuela - x - Bolivia

12/07/2004 Trujillo 19h45 00h45 Peru - x - Colombia

Group B - Chiclayo and Piura

teams P M W D L GS GA GD

Argentina 3 1 - - - 6 1 +5

Uruguay 1 - 1 - - 2 2 0

México 1 - 1 - - 2 2 0

Ecuador - - - 1 1 6 -5

Matches City Local time GMT

07/07/2004 Chiclayo 17h30 22h30 Uruguay 2 x 2 Mexico

07/07/2004 Chiclayo 19h45 00h45 Argentina 6 x 1 Ecuador

10/07/2004 Chiclayo 17h30 22h30 Uruguay - x - Ecuador

10/07/2004 Chiclayo 19h45 00h45 Argentina - x - Mexico

13/07/2004 Piura 17h30 22h30 Mexico - x - Ecuador

13/07/2004 Piura 19h45 00h45 Argentina - x - Uruguay

Group C - Arequipa and Tacna

teams P M W D L GS GA GD

Brazil - - - - - - - -

Paraguay - - - - - - - -

Costa Rica - - - - - - - -

Chile - - - - - - - -

Matches City Local time GMT

08/07/2004 Arequipa 17h30 22h30 Paraguay - x - Costa Rica

08/07/2004 Arequipa 19h45 00h45 Brazil - x - Chile

11/07/2004 Arequipa 15h 20h Brazil - x - Costa Rica

11/07/2004 Arequipa 17h15 22h15 Paraguay - x - Chile

14/07/2004 Tacna 17h30 22h30 Costa Rica - x - Chile

14/07/2004 Arequipa 19h45 00h45 Brazil - x - Paraguay

Quarter-finals

Matches City Local time GMT

17/07/2004

(I) Chiclayo 17h 22h 2nd Group A - x - 2nd Group B

17/07/2004 (III) Trujillo 19h45 00h45 1st Group A - x - 2nd Best 3rd

18/07/2004 (VI) Tacna 15h 20h 1st Group C - x - Best 3rd

18/07/2004

(II) Piura 20h 01h 1st Group B - x - 2nd Group C

Semifinals

Matches City Local time GMT

20/07/2004 (V) Lima 19h45 00h45 Winner of Match I - x - Winner of Match III

21/07/2004 (VI) Lima 19h45 00h45 Winner of Match II - x - Winner of Match IV

Third place match

Match City Local time GMT

24/07/2004 Cusco 19h45 00h45 Loser of

Match V - x - Loser of Match VI

Final

Match City Local time GMT

25/07/2004 Lima 15h 20h Winner of Match V - x - Winner of Match VI

From: official website,

http://global.terra.com/copaamericaperu2004/ingles/index2_i.htm

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Just when you promised the woman it was all over....

"TLN LAUNCHES COPA AMERICA - JULY 6TH

On the heels of the European championship, TLN will exclusively launch Copa America, South America’s premier soccer tournament, beginning Tuesday July 6.

TLN will present all 26 matches LIVE with Spanish language commentary. World powerhouses Argentina, Brazil and Mexico are the favourites vying for the top prize. Select key games will feature dual English and Spanish language commentary.

For full broadcast schedules and more info on TLN’s presentation of Copa America, log on to tlntv.com.

[or http://www.soccertv.com/canada.cfm ]

TLN COPA AMERICA Broadcast Schedule

This week's matches:

DATE MATCH LIVE

JULY 6 Venezuela vs. Colombia 18:30(ET)/15:30(PT)

Perú vs. Bolivia 20:30(ET)/17:30(PT)

JULY 7 México vs. Uruguay 18:15(ET)/15:15(PT)

Argentina vs. Ecuador 20:30(ET)/17:30(PT)

JULY 8 Costa Rica vs. Paraguay 18:15(ET)/15:15(PT)

Brasil vs. Chile 20:30(ET)/17:30(PT)

JULY 9 Colombia vs. Bolivia 18:15(ET)/15:15(PT)

Perú vs. Venezuela 20:30(ET)/17:30(PT)

JULY 10 Uruguay vs. Ecuador 18:15(ET)/15:15(PT)

Argentina vs. México 20:30(ET)/17:30(PT)"

[Paddy]

I am actually looking forward to this more than the Euros. I find this tournament is so intriguing as I do not know most of the players and one gets to see rare teams like the very acrobatic Venezuela play (though not win). Also, last time it was much more open and attacking than the Euros.

Can't wait. I think I'll cheer for Mexico.

Paul

[sstackho]

Oh man, my girlfriend's gonna kill me. I just told her soccer was all done for the summer.

[Dante79]

the final will be Peru-Argentina

[Natesta]

I hope Costa Rica goes out quick, don't want them getting too much practice before the WCQ.

[DJT]

After the results we've seen in this year's Euro, Oceania Nations Cup, UEFA Champions League and Copa Libertadores (was the African Nations Cup the only one without major surprises?), I don't feel stupid in predicting that Venezuela will win the Copa America!

I am also cheering for them, and Argentina. Or Peru would be good, too.

Either way, I'm finding even just the first half of the first match to be a breath of fresh air after the Euro.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by DJT

Either way, I'm finding even just the first half of the first match to be a breath of fresh air after the Euro.

Interesting. Maybe its unfair for me to judge given that I have just only seen about 70 minutes of the Ven-Col game and the first half of Per-Bol has just ended.

But having seen 2 or 3 of the games in the African nations cup last january and very many Euro 2004 matches, I would rate the quality of play in todays to matches the worst of the three tournaments. I would have a tough time imagining any of these four sides even coming close to qualify for Euro. What a contrast from Euro. All I ve seen in these two games are a ton of mistakes that I seldom saw in Euro. By that I mean very poor/careless give aways, poor distribution, inability to complete plays or deliver good balls, sloppy defending, and finally very predictable attacking schemes. Not to mention the fact that there are far fewer scoring chances in these games and and the keepers seem to have trouble handling every ball. Briefly, there are more mistakes than good plays

I have believed in the past that there is nothing mystical or magical in South American soccer beyond Arg and Bra. I still maintain that that is nothing more than folklore of which there is alot of in international soccer. I saw nothing so far to dispell that belief. We saw the last Copa on TV last time as well, Given the fact that sides sent B-teams, I thought it was unfair to judge. But it almost looks like those games were better played and the quality of execution was better. I am seeing very little of this so far. But then again, I seem to recall the later games in the last Copa displaying some good soccer. I thought the North African sides showed better technical skills. I wonder if Venezuala has really improved that much. Or is it that 5-6 other South Am sides have falled back to Venezuala's level?

[Free kick]

After having typed my post, I now realized that quality-wise the second half of Per-Bol is actually not as bad.

[DJT]

When I said "breath of fresh air" I didn't mean better, just different. I don't always like to watch the best. I like to see something different, mistakes and all. I like the way the South Americans keep the ball on the ground way more than in Europe, for example. I also found too much of the Euro to be too "tight", like there was so much on the line that everyone was tense and overly cautious (I guess Greece were a major cause of that).

Unfortunately just as the Peru vs. Bolivia match was reaching it's climax, with Peru finally coming on, Telelatino lost the feed.

EDIT: I think Telelatino's window to receive the broadcast closed. The match was supposed to kick off at 8:45 PM EDT (even according to the CONMEBOL site), but there were lots of opening ceremonies prior to the game so it went later than expected. Even Livescore is screwing up majorly; a shame that they put so much effort into the Euro and can't even get the basics right here. Anyway, Peru got the equalizer at the 86th.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by DJT

When I said "breath of fresh air" I didn't mean better, just different. I don't always like to watch the best. I like to see something different, mistakes and all. I like the way the South Americans keep the ball on the ground way more than in Europe, for example. I also found too much of the Euro to be too "tight", like there was so much on the line that everyone was tense and overly cautious (I guess Greece were a major cause of that).

Unfortunately just as the Peru vs. Bolivia match was reaching it's climax, with Peru finally coming on, Telelatino lost the feed.

Fair enough... ANC games that I caught when I found out that TV5 was televising them last january, were very high in tempo and pace. It was also interesting to contast the atmopshere in the stadium. From what you could pick up on TV anyways. The stadiums in those ANC games really sounded packed and emotion filled. Whereas in these games it looked like they were trying to hide the attendance by focusing strictly only a handfull of fans. It was almost like a televised a-league game. The coach could be heard clearly screeming instructions at his players.

But yes that Per-Bol was really picking up.

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

It was also interesting to contast the atmopshere in the stadium. From what you could pick up on TV anyways. The stadiums in those ANC games really sounded packed and emotion filled. Whereas in these games it looked like they were trying to hide the attendance by focusing strictly only a handfull of fans. It was almost like a televised a-league game. The coach could be heard clearly screeming instructions at his players.

I think it will get worse for other games when Peru is not playing. Unfortunately the change to the current WCQ format has diminished the importance of the Copa America (the world's oldest tournament for national teams!). I don't know about all the teams but Argentina and especially Brazil are weakened.

[Canadienfan]

Too bad we weren't invited to play in the Copa. Although we probaly wouldn't show up! I think this would be a perfect tournament for our team to get tight with each other on and off the field. Also it would give Yallop time to fine tune the team with his coaching style.

[sstackho]

Wow. How totally screwed by Telelatino were we tonight! 2-1 down to the hosts, only to miss the late equalizer.

Nice start to the tourney, Telelatino!

[sstackho]

We briefly saw the 'Satellite not authorized' message before seeing 15 minutes of commercials for some kind of Latino music awards to be shown on Saturday. That being said, after about 10 minutes of those commercials, I was getting right into it.

Still can't get that one woman and her skirt out of my head. []

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by sstackho

Wow. How totally screwed by Telelatino were we tonight! 2-1 down to the hosts, only to miss the late equalizer.

Nice start to the tourney, Telelatino!

I don't think it was their fault. Right when the game was cut off there was some text at the top of the screen that said something about how there was no authorization to access the program. My theory is that Telelatino had access to the Univision or Galavision or whatever feed for a certain amount of time, but the game lasted longer because of the opening ceremonies. I didn't see the opening ceremonies listed in any schedule anywhere and kickoff was given as 8:45 PM EDT everywhere. I blame the organizers for not being clear about the schedule.

EDIT: I wrote this before sstackho's second post above.

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by sstackho

Wow. How totally screwed by Telelatino were we tonight! 2-1 down to the hosts, only to miss the late equalizer.

Nice start to the tourney, Telelatino!

I don't think it was their fault. Right when the game was cut off there was some text at the top of the screen that said something about how there was no authorization to access the program. My theory is that Telelatino had access to the Univision or Galavision or whatever feed for a certain amount of time, but the game lasted longer because of the opening ceremonies. I didn't see the opening ceremonies listed in any schedule anywhere and kickoff was given as 8:45 PM EDT everywhere. I blame the organizers for not being clear about the schedule.

EDIT: I wrote this before sstackho's second post above.

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by DJT

Unfortunately the change to the current WCQ format has diminished the importance of the Copa America (the world's oldest tournament for national teams!).

Below is an interesting article about the importance of the Copa America. It says the tournament gives participants an opportunity to try new things that can later help in WCQ and even the WC --- note that this applies to Canada's rivals Costa Rica and, later, Mexico. Also note how the Gold Cup can play a similar role when it is held in the middle of the hex next year. (Though I'd rather that these tournaments be moved away from WCQ and take on their own importance.)

The part that says "it is competitive without --- except for the hosts --- being a matter of life and death" is part of what I was trying to say in my response to Free kick above. While the article uses this point to explain how the tournament allows for experimentation, I like that it also produces less tension and caution in the way teams play.

From World Soccer magazine:

Let's start with a disclaimer. The Copa America is not, and has not been for some time, an equivalent of the European Championship. That role is carried out by South America's World Cup qualification campaign, where the teams meet at full strength in front of packed crowds.

Little of this applies to the Copa America. But that does not necessarily make the whole thing an irrelevance. Nowadays, the tournament does indeed fit into the cracks of the World Cup qualifiers. But these can be deep and significant cracks; as a glance back at the last Copa America makes clear. In hindsight it can be argued that Colombia 2001 was where Brazil started to win the World Cup, and where Argentina started to lose it.

The Argentinians coasted through the qualifiers for Korea/Japan without ever needing to go beyond Plan A. Come the World Cup they looked tired and predictable, full of possession but with no penetration.

They had planned to use the 2001 Copa America to look at options and fringe players, but worried by the terrorist threat, they did not attend the tournament. Perhaps they would have done better in Asia if the likes of Javier Saviola and Andres D'Alessandro had been funnelled through the Copa America into the World Cup squad.

Brazil used the tournament in Colombia to make the bold switch to three centre-backs. At the time, with an experimental side, it failed. But it was a different matter a year later when the wing-backs able to take advantage of extra defensive cover were Cafu and Roberto Carlos. Without the opportunity to test the system in battle, Brazil's then coach Luiz Felipe Scolari may have been reluctant to make the switch.

This, in a nutshell, is the importance of the Copa America. It is competitive without --- except for the hosts --- being a matter of life and death. Coaches can experiment and teams can regroup before heading back, reinvigorated, to the more important task of World Cup qualification.

There is a second main reason, and one with long-term ramifications, for the continued existence of the Copa America. It presents a unique, and very necessary, opportunity to invest in stadiums. Most South American countries are dominated by a single city, usually the port through which local raw materials were dispatched to the First World.

Football in the continent suffers from this historical imbalance between a strong port and an undeveloped hinterland. The major teams are usually clustered in this one city, an excessive centralisation that leaves so much of the country's potential untapped.

Peru is an excellent example. It staged the Copa America five times between 1927 and 1957. On each occasion, all the games were played in Lima's National stadium. But for this year's tournament they have made a point of using seven cities, making an investment in infrastructure that should bring lasting benefits to Peruvian football.

[Canuck Oranje]

I would expect Brazil and Argentina still to be the powers in this tournament.

Was thinking... It seems odd that we call Brazil weakened when the two strikers (Fabiano and Adriano) playing for Brazil in this tournament are essentially responsible for keeping out of the lineup, the striker (Ailton) who kept the Greek striker (Charisteas) who scored the Euro 2004 tournament winner for Greece out of the starting lineup for Werder Bremen.

But the point on WCQ is well taken because the Brazilians and Argentinians face the same travel issues as Canadians playing in Europe.

quote:Originally posted by DJT

I think it will get worse for other games when Peru is not playing. Unfortunately the change to the current WCQ format has diminished the importance of the Copa America (the world's oldest tournament for national teams!). I don't know about all the teams but Argentina and especially Brazil are weakened.

[Jarrek]

I saw the Peru - Bolivia match and the rather stunning equalizer by Peru late in the second half. Certainly one of the goals of the tournament. I believe the game was broadcast by Gala or Univision (Can't remember now) but it was somewhere in the 800's on Dishnet.

[Free kick]

In short, what that article is saying is that Copa is equivalent to a series of friendlies. Afterall experimenting is what friednlies are for.

[sstackho]

quote:Originally posted by Jarrek

I saw the Peru - Bolivia match and the rather stunning equalizer by Peru late in the second half. Certainly one of the goals of the tournament. I believe the game was broadcast by Gala or Univision (Can't remember now) but it was somewhere in the 800's on Dishnet.

Jarrek, you're killing me.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Interesting. Maybe its unfair for me to judge given that I have just only seen about 70 minutes of the Ven-Col game and the first half of Per-Bol has just ended.

But having seen 2 or 3 of the games in the African nations cup last january and very many Euro 2004 matches, I would rate the quality of play in todays to matches the worst of the three tournaments.

Probably a bit early. Judging at this point is like judging the ANC after watching only a Rwanda x Somalia group match (as opposed to the semifinals and final which you are actually comparing it to).

You could argue that the 4 weakest teams in South America are all in the same group! Lets at least wait for Brasil, Argentina and Paraguay to play.

[Dante79]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Fair enough... ANC games that I caught when I found out that TV5 was televising them last january, were very high in tempo and pace. It was also interesting to contast the atmopshere in the stadium. From what you could pick up on TV anyways. The stadiums in those ANC games really sounded packed and emotion filled. Whereas in these games it looked like they were trying to hide the attendance by focusing strictly only a handfull of fans. It was almost like a televised a-league game. The coach could be heard clearly screeming instructions at his players.

But yes that Per-Bol was really picking up.

I dont agree with you my friend! Copa Amerca is way better than the African cup!dont forget that South American soccer is one of the nicest in the world.....Am not saying that the African cup is not good but please! you cant compaire them

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by Dante79

I dont agree with you my friend! Copa Amerca is way better than the African cup!dont forget that South American soccer is one of the nicest in the world.....Am not saying that the African cup is not good but please! you cant compaire them

I think the second-day of Copa America action illustrated how much better this tourney is. Of course, I'm referring to the quality of play, not the referees. Three of the first 4 games had either a bogus red card or penalty handed out. A red card for stepping on someone's foot??? WOW! [}]

[DoyleG]

I stuck at freakin work while the games on are TV.

I hate my life.