OT: Liberal Minority

[matthew]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

We know that Devine spent like a drunken socialist.

But only for the rich and the farms. The rest they just pocketed. He came pretty close as an indepedant this eleection.

I suspect we'll do this all again in few months. A 156 seat potential coalition isn't exactly rock solid.

Dick just conceeded. I'm in a PC riding for the first time in my life since I was able to vote.

cheers,

matthew

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead

I think my comment to the last two eastern comments are self explantory. Especially Rudi's comment that Harper is corrupt. Perhaps he should explain himself. He and his party hasn't wasted billions of Canadian taxpayers money.

Nah, the Conservatives never did anything wrong.

And for the record, I don't need to explain my comments to anyone, nor do I expect you to do so either. Whether I want to explain them at a later time is up to me.

[DarnCherry]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Nobody asked you to. I don't care.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead

Nobody asked you to. I don't care.

Hmmm...

quote:

Especially Rudi's comment that Harper is corrupt. Perhaps he should explain himself.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by matthew

But only for the rich and the farms. The rest they just pocketed. He came pretty close as an indepedant this eleection.

I suspect we'll do this all again in few months. A 156 seat potential coalition isn't exactly rock solid.

Dick just conceeded. I'm in a PC riding for the first time in my life since I was able to vote.

cheers,

matthew

Wait till the Liberals start stealing what's under the ground.

You'll come towards the light.

[DarnCherry]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Hmmm...

Sorry lack of concentration, too hot here. Anyway, I didn't really want an explanation, since Jarrek was asking for explanations I merely said "perhaps" you should give an explanation. Personally I really wasn't interested in an answer.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead

Sorry lack of concentration, too hot here. Anyway, I didn't really want an explanation, since Jarrek was asking for explanations I merely said "perhaps" you should give an explanation. Personally I really wasn't interested in an answer.

No harm, no foul. Everyone has their reasons for voting the way they did.

[Cheeta]

Ah, the party of Mulroney blows it's last best chance for another decade. Funny.

Big swath o' Tory blue from Winnipeg's western suburbs to Vancouver's eastern suburbs, eh?

Status quote in Manitoba. No surprise there. Local candidates all pretty strong. Ex-mayor Murray looses out. Had a laugh at that although the race was pretty close for the most part.

Fun watching some of these ridings inch along. Fun watching some of them gallop away. Have got to admire some of the candidates and partys who know they're gonna loose by 10,000 votes but work their ass' off anyway. Have got to admire voters who know their candidate is going to win in a walk, or get hammered but still go out to vote.

Strange animal this democracy. Usualy end up getting what you deserve.

[Gian-Luca]

Unfortunately in my home town I'm stuck again with an MP who not only isn't even from my home town, I don't think he's even visited it ever. And yet this is the second time he's won! Nice to see once again we will have somebody representing us who knows all about the people and town he's representing.

And they wonder why people have gotten cynical about politics over the years.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Such a shame tonight. Guess corruption is better than change.

What you should really be doing is blaming the ethnic vote and big money. I laughed at Harper's bitter words. I'm laughing that he's gone into hiding today. He's such a republican and Bush asskiss.

I'm glad that canadian kids won't have to go abroad to fight American wars. I'm glad that Stockwell Day isn't going to our Minister of Foriegn Affairs. I'm glad that the highjacking of the PC party by the CRAPpers failed.

[Desigol]

I haven't realy been following the Election in Canada (maybe I should go to canoe.ca more often). But, I'm glad the Liberals won. I think their opposition to the War in Iraq was what swung it. In the last German election in 2002, Schroeder was in serious trouble from the Christian Democrats. Then he voiced his opposition to Bush's plans in Iraq and the public started to support him again, and he won. Also, in Spain Aznar was quick to blame ETA for the Madrid Bombing and as a consequence Zapatero won.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Desigol

I haven't realy been following the Election in Canada (maybe I should go to canoe.ca more often). But, I'm glad the Liberals won. I think their opposition to the War in Iraq was what swung it.

I don't think that was it. Many pundits are claiming that the large undecided vote went the liberal way due to fears about the Conservatives coming to power (legitimate or not), apparently heightened/strengthened/created (depending upon your point of view) by the Liberals & media in the final days prior to the election.

[Grizzly]

quote:I think it says that many Canadians are cowards afraid of change.

Krammerhead, I don't think Canadians were afraid of change. They just didn't want that change to be a return to 1950's style thinking. If the Conservative party had a good leader and fewer scary candidates they probably would have won a majority government. When Harper started talking about using the Notwithstanding Clause and not just for one issue but for everything under the sun it sure scared the hell out of me even before Randy White started mouthing off. And maybe us easterners just have a better recollection of the amount of corruption and deficits run up by conservatives such Harris and Mulroney. Why elect a party with a history of corruption and inneptitude to replace a corrupt party that however much one might dislike them have at least been more competent than recent Conservative governments? One can't ignore the fact that while the rest of the world has been in recession for the last five years the Canadian economy has grown and been the most successful of the G8 during this period. I lived in Germany during most of this period and their economy was very bad as was the American economy which has such a strong influence on ours. So seeing the much better situation in Canada I have to give the Liberals some credit although I strongly dislike Chretien. Although they gained more seats the Conservatives actually lost more than 8% of the combined Alliance and PC vote despite an electorate completely pissed off at the incumbent party. Maybe they should rethink some of their policies and strategy.

quote:I wonder how many more seats the NDP would have won if the left was united, i.e. combining the NDP/Green vote.

The Greens did not and will not join with the NDP because they are not a left wing party. Their leader is a former member of the Progressive Conservatives and their platform is a mix of right and left wing views (for example they proposed the second largest increase of all the parties in the military budget albeit with an emphasis on peacekeeping missions) with great importance given to environmental policies. That is who I voted for and it seems from other posters that they may be close to No.1 among the Voyageurs. The fact that they received more than 4% of the vote and didn't elect one member while the Bloq received 11% and elected 54 shows how flawed out system is and how much we need to have some sort of proportional representation system.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

What you should really be doing is blaming the ethnic vote and big money. I laughed at Harper's bitter words. I'm laughing that he's gone into hiding today. He's such a republican and Bush asskiss.

Harper is minor compared to Day or Chinochio. He's better than "Screw-Up" Martin or "Yapping Dog" Layton.

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

I'm glad that canadian kids won't have to go abroad to fight American wars. I'm glad that Stockwell Day isn't going to our Minister of Foriegn Affairs. I'm glad that the highjacking of the PC party by the CRAPpers failed.

I'm a serving member of the Armed Forces reserve. We would rather take Iraq over serving as one of you "boy scouts". We didn't sign up to sit back and do nothing.

Seems you hate for Day as a Foreign affairs critic seems to go to only one reason.

It wasn't a hijacking of the PC party. I was a PC card holder who supported the merger. Now, PC can stand for Proper Conservative rather than Progressive Conservative. We know what Progressive Conservaives stand for now.

quote:originally posted by Gian-LucaI don't think that was it. Many pundits are claiming that the large undecided vote went the liberal way due to fears about the Conservatives coming to power (legitimate or not), apparently heightened/strengthened/created (depending upon your point of view) by the Liberals & media in the final days prior to the election.

I actually had a good laugh at the Liberal attack ads. I feel sorry for anyone who actually believed them.

Desigol,

Seen how bad things are now for Schroeder in Germany, the war has lost it's effect. It's now seeimgly shown as well when it comes to Zapatero and Spain.

[DarnCherry]

Well I voted Green. Martin is a crook, and the the NDP are useless. As for Harper, he has a really shiny artificial face, reminds me of Casey from Mr. Dressup.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Krammerhead, I don't think Canadians were afraid of change. They just didn't want that change to be a return to 1950's style thinking. If the Conservative party had a good leader and fewer scary candidates they probably would have won a majority government. When Harper started talking about using the Notwithstanding Clause and not just for one issue but for everything under the sun it sure scared the hell out of me even before Randy White started mouthing off. And maybe us easterners just have a better recollection of the amount of corruption and deficits run up by conservatives such Harris and Mulroney. Why elect a party with a history of corruption and inneptitude to replace a corrupt party that however much one might dislike them have at least been more competent than recent Conservative governments? One can't ignore the fact that while the rest of the world has been in recession for the last five years the Canadian economy has grown and been the most successful of the G8 during this period. I lived in Germany during most of this period and their economy was very bad as was the American economy which has such a strong influence on ours. So seeing the much better situation in Canada I have to give the Liberals some credit although I strongly dislike Chretien. Although they gained more seats the Conservatives actually lost more than 8% of the combined Alliance and PC vote despite an electorate completely pissed off at the incumbent party. Maybe they should rethink some of their policies and strategy.

There's no need to rethink. We've done much to distance ourselves from the old, corrupt PC's. Most of us would be more than willing to take "Red Tory" Mulroney out of the picture.

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

The Greens did not and will not join with the NDP because they are not a left wing party. Their leader is a former member of the Progressive Conservatives and their platform is a mix of right and left wing views (for example they proposed the second largest increase of all the parties in the military budget albeit with an emphasis on peacekeeping missions) with great importance given to environmental policies. That is who I voted for and it seems from other posters that they may be close to No.1 among the Voyageurs. The fact that they received more than 4% of the vote and didn't elect one member while the Bloq received 11% and elected 54 shows how flawed out system is and how much we need to have some sort of proportional representation system.

Don't even get me started on "peacekeeping".

[Massive Attack]

It looks like Canadian's voted for the lesser of 2 evils (I also voted Green last night). Personally, I think Harper lost the election after he made the child pornography comment. People east of Manitoba don't want their country being led by a neo-con, and it showed in the results. The Conservative Party won't do better in an election until they have a more moderate leader (most people see right through Harper).

I wish there was a way to get rid of Paul Martin without giving power to Harper.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

It looks like Canadian's voted for the lesser of 2 evils (I also voted Green last night). Personally, I think Harper lost the election after he made the child pornography comment. People east of Manitoba don't want their country being led by a neo-con, and it showed in the results. The Conservative Party won't do better in an election until they have a more moderate leader (most people see right through Harper).

I wish there was a way to get rid of Paul Martin without giving power to Harper.

They see what the Liberals want them to see. Harper is hardly a neo-con like the rest. A real neo-con wouldn't have given so much ground to the PC's in a merger.

The child porn statement was badly argued.

[beachesl]

Hmmm[], I was going to come onto the forum today and exult at how there has been no mention of the election here. This hitherto lack of political or related beligerance is one of the reasons why this forum is quantum leaps ahead of any other soccer forum in the world (and I have looked at a lot of them in numerous languages). There are other reasons why this forum excels (intelligent, readable, knowledgeable, conversational, goodspirited and approriately humourous posts are others).

One only has to see the large number of real crap threads and sections on bigsoccerboards [xx(]to see how bad it can get. At least the comments in this thread are not very bombastic.

I'm looking forward to another long period of time after today without the political stuff.

Vive la différence![8D]

[jonovision]

I think the success of the Green Party (4.5% of the popular vote, including over 6% in Alberta) is one of the underplayed stories so far in this election. At $1.75 per vote per year, this election has laid the groundwork for them to have more of an impact in future campaigns.

[Massive Attack]

Harper is a neo-con, masked as a more moderate conservative. He has the same values as the neo-cons, but realizes its better to keep these ideas to himself in order to get elected outside of the west. I formed this opinion not based on Liberal propoganda, but through my own research, if I wasn't at work right now, I'd find some articles on the net to back up my arguements.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

This thread is a prime example of how a good soccer site can be ruined if you let the fans "discuss" any politics beyond soccer politics.

The soccer equivalent would be like saying hey, let's get everyone who doesn't understand off-side in soccer and put them on their own thread.

Very edifying.

Can we please get back to talking about serious stuff, like how we can get our new government to waste billions of taxpayers dollars on a few soccer specific stadiums?

[Guest Ed]

I think the fact that someone stated the majority of Voyageurs voted Green says a lot about the Voyageurs.

And thanks for the in depth analysis Mr Massive Attack.

[wbn1000]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

It wasn't a hijacking of the PC party. I was a PC card holder who supported the merger. Now, PC can stand for Proper Conservative rather than Progressive Conservative. We know what Progressive Conservaives stand for now.

I think this is one of the problems right there....

The question what is a conservative has different answers depending on where you live. From Newfoundland to Quebec and large swaths of Ontario, plus in certain urban centres in Western Canada (namely Winnipeg) the term conservative seems to apply to those with centre-right or moderate right views (i.e. Progressive Conservatism or Red Toryism). In small sections of Ontario, rural Manitoba, and the rest of Western Canada, a conservative is one with a strong right wing (i.e. the new Conservatives or the old Reform/Alliance) viewpoint pure and simple.

By running from a strong right wing position, the Conservatives ignored the realities of Central and Eastern Canadian politics and the historical traditions of Canadian conservatism. The fact is, 80+% of the Canadian electorate is in the centre and will not tolerate strong right (or left) wing platforms and policies.

I was a supporter of the PC party, but could not tolerate many of the social policies of the new Conservatives, (rightly or wrongly I was suspicious of the unspoken parts of their platform and remembered previous statements by Harper et al). I also didn't want to vote Liberal, although they now closely match most of my current views, because of Adscam, the HR boondoggle, etc, etc, etc. In the end I voted Green because their platform was mostly acceptable to me and I wanted to help a new mainstream party get off the ground. Plus, in the Winnipeg riding of Elmwood-Transcona it didn't matter who I voted for, so punishing the Liberals was a safe vote.

Should be an interesting next 9-15 months before the next election...

Now back to soccer.

[Blue and White Army]

quote:Originally posted by jonovision

I think the success of the Green Party (4.5% of the popular vote, including over 6% in Alberta) is one of the underplayed stories so far in this election. At $1.75 per vote per year, this election has laid the groundwork for them to have more of an impact in future campaigns.

I voted Green as well. Nice to see they will receive federal party funding for receiving more than 4% of the vote.

Wonder how they did it. Last time the federal Greens had something like 0.08%... only some 1,100 votes. This time, more than a million people supported them.