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Euro U-19 Finals (Canada draw 2nd place Germans)


Guest Jeffery S.

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Guest Jeffery S.

The draw for the European under-19 tournament had been done, to be held starting late July in Finland.

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/WUnder19/news/Kind=1/newsId=189297.html

The Norway group looks tougher, with Russian and Italy in there. Spain could be the surprise behind Germany in the other group, as host Finland and Switzerland look softer. Top two of each group go to semis and finals. The odds are on for Norway and Germany to meet in the finals. So all four semi-finalist qualify for the world's in Thailand.

I think given the results in our region that Uefa should have the same as us, three and not four.

I can give some perspective on the Spanish women, helped a lot by a ever-improving national league and lower tiers with pro-reg. Fan interest is also improving in the country, though the press is far behind. Like in so many other cases, a bit of press enthusiasm could go a long way.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Actually Jeffrey, CONCACAF only got two places in Thailand (Canada and the US, which made the semis n Ottawa rather tense until we got scoring).

So you like Spain again, do ya? Hope that your prognostication goes better than your one for EURO 2004 and that the espanolitas have more cajones:D than their male counterparts? Are you a bit of a second-homer? ;)

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Does anyone think that it was a bad idea to have the u19 world championship (are they not calling it the u19 world cup anymore?) draw before the euro quals? Now, in the final game, a team might intentionally lose so that they are in Group A (Canada's group) instead of Group C (USA's group). A mistake, I think. At least this year I think Canada actually does have the better team (at least based on the CONCACAF quals), but you know that the rest of the world is far more weary of the U.S. than Canada.

Regardless, Group C looks tougher overall.

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Guest Jeffery S.
quote:Originally posted by beachesl

Actually Jeffrey, CONCACAF only got two places in Thailand (Canada and the US, which made the semis n Ottawa rather tense until we got scoring).

So you like Spain again, do ya? Hope that your prognostication goes better than your one for EURO 2004 and that the espanolitas have more cajones:D than their male counterparts? Are you a bit of a second-homer? ;)

I am just going by a clear improvement in results lately. And the reasons for it I made clear too. For sure Spain is favoured for semis over Finland and Switzerland, a surprisingly easy draw. But they left some stronger sides out along the way to qualifying for the tournament. Think it could have been Holland.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest Jeffery S.

First round of the European under-19 tournament played yesterday. Germany and Spain look to qualify from Group A, especially with host Finland quite weak. Group B is still quite open despite the 1st day results. Top four go to World Cup in Thailand.

Results Group A.

Grp A Spain 3 - 1 Switzerland

Grp A Finland 0 - 4 Germany

Group B:

Grp B Norway 2 - 0 France 28/07

Grp B Italy 5 - 1 Russia 28/07

Remaining group stage fixtures:

30/07

Grp A Finland - Spain

Grp A Germany - Switzerland

Grp B Norway - Italy

Grp B France - Russia

02/08

Grp A Switzerland - Finland

Grp A Germany - Spain

Grp B Russia - Norway

Grp B France - Italy

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Guest Jeffery S.

Four Euro teams decided for Thailand. Not noted in this article, Germany beat the Swiss 4-0 and Spain over Finland by an identical score in round two. Then today the Germans beat Spain 7-0 to make the semis Germany-Russia and Spain-Italy; Germany played with their same starting XI and Spain rested half their side, clearly not ready for the pace of a game every two days. The score also reflects the lack of depth on the team. With Germany favoured to win their semi and the final, that would mean one of either Spain or Italy will be Canada's opponent should be accessible given Canada's experience.

Quartet to lead European charge

Monday, 2 August 2004

The four nations which will fly the flag for Europe at November's FIFA Under-19 Women's World Championship are now known after Italy and Russia sealed the top two spots in Group B to join Germany and Spain in the semi-finals of the UEFA European Women's Under-19 Championship.

Final matches

Germany, who finished third at the inaugural world event in Canada two years ago, and Spain were assured of their places in Thailand before today's final round of group matches after both won their opening two games in Group A to eliminate the hosts Finland and Switzerland. Qualification for Italy and Russia was not so straightforward, as they entered today's games with the prospect of being eliminated.

European placings

In the end, Italy topped the section on goal difference despite losing 3-2 to France, who were pipped by Russia on goals scored due to their 3-0 victory against Norway. The winners of the 8 August final in Helsinki will travel to Thailand as Europe 1, and the runners-up as Europe 2. As there is no third-place play-off, FIFA will draw lots to determine which of the losing semi-finalists is Europe 3 and which is Europe 4.

Group A

(Bangkok)

Thailand, Europe 2, Australia, Canada.

Group B

(Chang Mai)

Africa, China, Europe 4, Brazil.

Group C

(Phuket)

Korea Republic, United States, Europe 3, Europe 1.

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Guest Jeffery S.
quote:Originally posted by beachesl

Hmm, the Scandinavians used to dominate women's soccer in Europe. Evidence of a changing of the balance of power?

Could be the same kind of shift we perhaps are seeing in Concacaf after Canada was knocked out of the Olympics by Mexico.

The northern teams may have dominated as they are stronger and taller physically in general, have more fitness, young women play more sport and it is supported more by gov't, press, clubs, and they are historically less sexist (there are fine points here, but lets leave it at the cliché); until the teams where the traditions of more sophisticated ball control and build-up as appropriated from the men's game can get more girls playing, widen their pools, and impose that style on the northern ones, which can only happen when the physical and fitness differences are narrowed so mere sheer force is less a factor.

That the Italians and Spanish have gotten this far at this age level is a definite sign of a shift IMO. I only wish I had read a single thing anywhere in the press about this here.

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Guest Jeffery S.

Spain beat Italy 1-0 in semis to face Germany in the UEFA u-19 final. As Germany is likely to win the final on Sunday that would mean Europe B is Spain, Canada's rival.

Germany went through with a 8-0 drubbing of Russia.

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Just on the issue of changing power structures, keep in mind that the 4 Euro qualifiers for last U-19 were Germany, Denmark, England and France. Nary a Scandinavian country among them. Only Germany is back from the last set of qualifiers.

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Guest Jeffery S.

Spain beat Germany 2-1 to take the Euro U-19, same as they did for the boys. Goals by Iraia and Jade, former with first division team Atletico Bilbao, the latter in a 2nd tier team, Torrejon. Surprise win, and maybe not great news for Canada as now we get the Germans, and the States will see Spain in their group.

After fielding a team of subs in the group play game and losing 7-0 Spain showed that they had the stuff to play Germany head on with the full squad.

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quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Could be the same kind of shift we perhaps are seeing in Concacaf after Canada was knocked out of the Olympics by Mexico.

The northern teams may have dominated as they are stronger and taller physically in general, have more fitness, young women play more sport and it is supported more by gov't, press, clubs, and they are historically less sexist (there are fine points here, but lets leave it at the cliché); until the teams where the traditions of more sophisticated ball control and build-up as appropriated from the men's game can get more girls playing, widen their pools, and impose that style on the northern ones, which can only happen when the physical and fitness differences are narrowed so mere sheer force is less a factor.

That the Italians and Spanish have gotten this far at this age level is a definite sign of a shift IMO. I only wish I had read a single thing anywhere in the press about this here.

You worded this so nicely, you must be a politician. I agree that there is a bit of a shift. Perhaps also a bit of excess confidence by the traditional powers. I do not think though, that women soccer from Latin origin countries will ever surpass Scandinavian and Anglo-Saxon origin countries. There is just too much history and idiosincracies involved.

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Guest Jeffery S.
quote:Originally posted by The Ref

You worded this so nicely, you must be a politician. I agree that there is a bit of a shift. Perhaps also a bit of excess confidence by the traditional powers. I do not think though, that women soccer from Latin origin countries will ever surpass Scandinavian and Anglo-Saxon origin countries. There is just too much history and idiosincracies involved.

Ever? Mexico knocked us out of the Olympics, and Spain just beat Germany for the European title u-19. Considering that there are only 11,000 registered girls playing soccer in Spain, I think that when more get involved, and the big clubs start to commit to the women's game, we'll see the changes for sure. Right now the only teams in Spain top flight with women's teams on the same level are Bilbao, Barça, Espanyol and Levante. Get Madrid in the mix, get some serious rivalries going, and the game will only get better in the southern/latin countries.

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quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Ever? Mexico knocked us out of the Olympics, and Spain just beat Germany for the European title u-19. Considering that there are only 11,000 registered girls playing soccer in Spain, I think that when more get involved, and the big clubs start to commit to the women's game, we'll see the changes for sure. Right now the only teams in Spain top flight with women's teams on the same level are Bilbao, Barça, Espanyol and Levante. Get Madrid in the mix, get some serious rivalries going, and the game will only get better in the southern/latin countries.

Mexico's team is still being made up of players who learned their trade in the US. The Mexican team in Athens has 8 US-based players.

Now before you go on, the Mexicans have spent years looking for talent amongst the Mexican-American community. They did this starting before WWC '99 qualifying. They went in search of American players who could play for Mexico. They ended up getting a good number of players for the qualifiers and the '99 WWC. Some of those players could've easily played for the USWNT.

Sports Illustrated did a write-up before the '99 WWC about this.

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quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

They ended up getting a good number of players for the qualifiers and the '99 WWC. Some of those players could've easily played for the USWNT.

Actually, just to clarify this ... you are right that the Mexican team has heavily recruited player of Mexican-American heritage to play for them when they "started" their program before the 1999 WWC (their first big event was right here in Toronto during the 1998 CONCACAF Qualifiers).

But, I don't think thinking that these Mexican-American players "could've easily played for the USWNT" is correct. Do you honestly think that any of those players that fit under this umbrella would rather play for Mexico than the USA (aka their country of birth, where they grew up, where they live) if they were part of the USWNT program/development programs and had a chance to play for the USWNT? I don't think so. The reason they play for Mexico is because if they DID NOT represent Mexico, they would never play at that level -- senior int'l soccer with the possibility of going to WWC and Olympics. These players knew they would never get to do that if they wanted to wear red, white and blue.

And for those players to play for Mexico, many had to learn Spanish since some of them do not even speak the language. Some had to go with their parents (and even grandparents) to Mexico to gain citizenship (cause you cannot skip generations as per Mexican citizen laws or whatever).

The only player I can think of that fits under the whole "could've have played for the USWNT" is Veronica Zepeda. She was a standout youth player that went up through the USWNT youth system -- the U14, U19, U21 teams etc. She's a playmaking midfielder who was highly recruited and ended up playing with the NCAA Champions Santa Clara Broncos. A few years back her name was mentioned so many times when talking about the future of the USWNT midfield, but IIRC, she suffered some type of injury and never really got back to form. Today, her name isn't even on the USWNT radar and a large part of is that she's now in the Mexican system and will most likely represent her parents' homeland in int'l play b/c she realized she was not going to get called up with the USWNT because they have so much depth/competition in her position.

And to give Leo Cuellar credit -- while yes, his 2004 Olympic team has lots of Mexican-American players on it ... the numbers of Mexican-American players is not as high as it used to be before. They are actually developing "home grown" players now (prime examples of Maribel Dominguez, Patty Perez, Fatima Leyva etc.) and the roster is as much "Mexican" (if more) than it is hyphanted.

Just my two cents ...

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Guest Jeffery S.

Elaine, I can't for the life of me find out which Euro teams are the C and D, as they did not play a third place game in the recent U-19 Euro championship. Would you happen to know where Italy and Russia now lie?

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quote:Originally posted by Elaine

Actually, just to clarify this ... you are right that the Mexican team has heavily recruited player of Mexican-American heritage to play for them when they "started" their program before the 1999 WWC (their first big event was right here in Toronto during the 1998 CONCACAF Qualifiers).

But, I don't think thinking that these Mexican-American players "could've easily played for the USWNT" is correct. Do you honestly think that any of those players that fit under this umbrella would rather play for Mexico than the USA (aka their country of birth, where they grew up, where they live) if they were part of the USWNT program/development programs and had a chance to play for the USWNT? I don't think so. The reason they play for Mexico is because if they DID NOT represent Mexico, they would never play at that level -- senior int'l soccer with the possibility of going to WWC and Olympics. These players knew they would never get to do that if they wanted to wear red, white and blue.

And for those players to play for Mexico, many had to learn Spanish since some of them do not even speak the language. Some had to go with their parents (and even grandparents) to Mexico to gain citizenship (cause you cannot skip generations as per Mexican citizen laws or whatever).

The only player I can think of that fits under the whole "could've have played for the USWNT" is Veronica Zepeda. She was a standout youth player that went up through the USWNT youth system -- the U14, U19, U21 teams etc. She's a playmaking midfielder who was highly recruited and ended up playing with the NCAA Champions Santa Clara Broncos. A few years back her name was mentioned so many times when talking about the future of the USWNT midfield, but IIRC, she suffered some type of injury and never really got back to form. Today, her name isn't even on the USWNT radar and a large part of is that she's now in the Mexican system and will most likely represent her parents' homeland in int'l play b/c she realized she was not going to get called up with the USWNT because they have so much depth/competition in her position.

And to give Leo Cuellar credit -- while yes, his 2004 Olympic team has lots of Mexican-American players on it ... the numbers of Mexican-American players is not as high as it used to be before. They are actually developing "home grown" players now (prime examples of Maribel Dominguez, Patty Perez, Fatima Leyva etc.) and the roster is as much "Mexican" (if more) than it is hyphanted.

Just my two cents ...

Very interesting piece of information. I agree that there is a factor of patriotism for Mexican-American players to play for Mexico and a consideration of reality to crack the U.S. team. However, in the eyes of Latin countries, any of their own who play or played in the U.S. has an automatic 'prestige' attached that makes them to be considered a great catch for that country's national program. It is sad to say, but some of those players will be recruited into their latin root national program just because of their residency inspite of their skills.

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quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Elaine, I can't for the life of me find out which Euro teams are the C and D, as they did not play a third place game in the recent U-19 Euro championship. Would you happen to know where Italy and Russia now lie?

I had to search a bit too, but on the FIFA U-19 WWC page, they've updated the match schedule for the tournament. Apparently they had a draw between Russia and Italy to determine "Europe 3" and "Europe 4". Russia "won" the draw and was placed into Group C as "Europe 3" while Italy goes into Group B as "Europe 4".

In summary:

Group A (Bangkok)

Thailand *

Germany

Australia

Canada *

Group B (Chiang Mai)

Africa (Nigeria/SA)

China PR

Italy

Brazil *

Group C (Phuket)

Korea Rep.

USA

Russia

Spain *

* denotes seeded team

Also of note is that the Thais think that the tournament will be wildly popular as there will be 3 stadia used in excess of 25 000 seats. The two in Bangkok are 40K and 65K, while the one in Chiang Mai is 25+K. Hopefully they get crowds like in Edmonton in 2002, but I don't see it happening.

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Guest Jeffery S.

Thanks for the piece of data, sorry to take so long to say so.

In the end winning Europe was probably a bad deal for Spain as the US-Korea-Russia group is tough. And it also means that Canada's group with Germany will be all the more difficult, since all sides should get results vs. the hosts.

Looking forward to getting this on tv here, only deep down I was hoping we'd draw Spain to ensure me getting to watch Canada.

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