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Vote for Keeper


Canadienfan

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Hi fella's! Well there's been some good points brought up here. I'd like to say a few more things. Firstly I think picking who you think should be in goal is in no ways a put down to the other guy. If you think a fans opion in who he/she thinks should start is putting a guy down, then what do you think when the coach goes with one guy over the other? He's saying the other guy is a bum! No obviously you don't. Secondly I just think Lars is a better keeper period. I think his skills and reflexs are better than Pat's. Either way all I want Canada to do is win like we all do!!!!!!

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Regardless of what league the keeper plays in or how often, I can't understand how anyone who watched the two Belize games could pick Onstad. Goal was the only position where we were outplayed by Belize. Onstad made one good save in two games but was very insecure on several routine saves and made me nervous any time a defender kicked the ball back to him. He has a consistent history of letting in weak goals in MNT games (remember Ossieck's comment that he was going to have to tell his keeper that he is allowed to use his hands after Onstad let in a very weak goal that caused us to lose against Estonia). I am sure everyone remembers Trinidad as well. I have also seen a fair number of weak goals in San Jose. He does have his strong games but is not consistent enough to be a starting national team keeper and his strong games have rarely occured when playing for the MNT. Some keepers are able to play well when not playing often and Lars has showed this ability when on loan and also when playing for the MNT. I do wonder if Lars was really seriously injured or didn't want to play in a relatively meaningless game because he is out of contract. He was making diving stops before the second game during the warm up. One can only hope that Onstad improves with more work in the second round but if I were coach, his performance against Belize would cause me to seriously think about whether to even call him as a back up. Not that it is going to happen but I would probably call Lars as starter and Stamatoupolis or Sutton as a back up. I just don't think a mediocre keeper in his mid 30's belongs in our MNT program.

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Yallop's choosen Pat, for good or bad. It's for Lars to displace him. Right now, all things considered that's probably the right decision.

If Lars was ordinarily playing at a quality level, I'd drop Pat to the bench in a heart beat. But he ain't. And I put more stock into match intensity and experience that some others. A lot more.

I think it's very important as well that familiarity be developed between your defensive line and your keep as much as is possible. Too important to ignore. Too important to muck about with with numerious personel changes when avoidable.

I just think Lars is by far and away better suited to face CONCACAF opposition when compared to Pat Onstad. But until he can qualify that opinion on a regular basis Saturday afternoons, Mr. Yallop dosen't realy have a very hard decision.

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You can put stock in experience, league level, playing time and whatever else you want but at the end the only factor is what you do on the field for the MNT and nothing else. Lars has performed well in the last few years at the MNT level and Onstad has not. Whether Onstad was the best keeper in the MLS last year is immaterial to me, he has not played well at the MNT level. I was hoping that his MLS experience had improved his play but have so far seen no evidence of this. I wouldn't care if our keeper played for the worst team in the CPSL if he maintained a clean sheet every time he played for the MNT. In fact, for two games Onstad was outperformed by a keeper who plays in a league of similar level to CPSL. I would bet that if Orio had played for us and Onstad for Belize we would have scored more than 8 goals over two games. I can't recall a match where I thought that Lars lost the match for us but I can recall numerous examples where this was the case with Onstad.

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Lars. The issue of age should come into play at some point as well, and Onstad is at the point in his life where his skills will begin to deteriorate, while Lars has years to improve. If Lars lands a decent club gig, it should be his job hands down. Until then, the choice is less obvious.

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I think those of you who say Yallop will pick Pat over Lars is true. But if Pat falters and Lars is playing somewhere I think Yallop has a big decision to make. I don't think that no matter what he's staying with Pat till the end. I still think that for us to qualify for the World Cup our keeper is probally going to have to be our best player. I can remember Lars doing just that but I can't say the same for Pat in my opinion.

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quote:Originally posted by Mimglow

I think the nonsense to be read on this board comes from your viewpoint. To suggest that Sutton is even in the same league as Hirshfeld is absurd.

I think someone made this point in a previous thread, but suggesting that Hirshfeld is not on his game because he spent the last year in Tottenham reserves is ridiculous. Would you say the same if a Canadian was the backup in Munich, or Milan? Of course not.

I realize you're a reporter for the A-League and that you see Sutton every week, but that does not make him world-class. Hirshfeld has proven he's world-class in past Gold Cups.

If I start every game for my rec league team, does that put me ahead in the pecking order for the Nats? Putting the Impact and Tottenham on the same level is similarly absurd.

How can you say that Lars is "world-class"...........if he was world class he would start for a Premiership side. Yeah, he had 2 world-class performance in Gold Cup but he's far away from being a world-class keeper like Van Der Sar, Kahn, or Friedel.

As for Sutton, I think he deserve a chance to play for Canada in a friendly. I also think he should try to find a club in Europe because he's a quality keeper and some clubs could be interested.

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Pat is our No.1. Lars is a very capable backup. Pat was kinda scary

against Belize in many instances, but consider the freaking weather (mega rain). Pat is a good CONCACAF keeper, and I believe he still has better skills than

Tin Howard. The challenge is finding strong backups for the road to Germany,

just in case Pat or Lars gets injured.

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Guest Jeffery S.
quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

You can put stock in experience, league level, playing time and whatever else you want but at the end the only factor is what you do on the field for the MNT and nothing else. Lars has performed well in the last few years at the MNT level and Onstad has not. Whether Onstad was the best keeper in the MLS last year is immaterial to me, he has not played well at the MNT level. I was hoping that his MLS experience had improved his play but have so far seen no evidence of this. I wouldn't care if our keeper played for the worst team in the CPSL if he maintained a clean sheet every time he played for the MNT. In fact, for two games Onstad was outperformed by a keeper who plays in a league of similar level to CPSL. I would bet that if Orio had played for us and Onstad for Belize we would have scored more than 8 goals over two games. I can't recall a match where I thought that Lars lost the match for us but I can recall numerous examples where this was the case with Onstad.

When was the last time Lars made a big save for Canada? I think we have to go back quite a ways to find one. In our European friendly run I don't think he had a single stalwart match, keeping us in a game with a big stop. I am afraid that Lars is still living off that 2nd last Gold Cup run. Not enough as I see it. While Onstad at least has had at least a dozen strong games for the Quakes over the past two seasons.

I insist, under Yallop Onstad has done well for us. For now he's the man, though I agree that if Lars gets some first team action in a decent club the argument could be a bit closer.

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Onstad is very dedicated to the canadian national team but he's not good enough to play international football. He's not making the key saves when it counts. I know that he made a nice save against Belize but at the time it was something like 7-0 Canada on the aggregate score. No pressure.

If Yallop brings him as the number 1 stopper in the semi-final round I'm sure that he's gonna let an easy goal in the first game and that will scrap our chances for Germany 2006. He did it against T&T in 2000 and he'll do it again. I have no confidence in him.

I strongly hope that I'm wrong and if he's oustanding in the next round I'll be the first one to jump out of my couch and say that I knew that he was the best. LOL

I would go with Hirschfeld or Sutton.

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Guest Georgio

Lars.

Because I've actaully seen him play outstanding and keep canada in matches, no matter how long ago it was. I have never seen this of Onstad but I've seen him save what he is suppose to save on most occasions, so I am not distraught over Yallop's confidence in him.

Lars is the naturally talented one and has shined in the past under pressure - that is my reasoning.

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Just as an add on, one of my old football mentors told me a good 'keeper will make those saves which'll keep you in a match but a great 'keeper won't have to.

It was at a time when I fancied giving goalkeeping a go but had no idea what he was talking about. As it turns out, as a keep the three dimensional nature of football didn't sit well with me so I moved on but I pretty quickly got the jist of it.

Something about recognising the danger and disarming it as much as possible before it evolves.

Don't think anyone will argue Lars' superior shot stopping ability (relative to Onstad, although once upon a moon Pat was a great reaction 'keeper too if I remember correctly). Think the arguments between the two lay in that other, more technical ability. And how that technical ability is at the very least, as important as the athletic gifts of shot stopping.

And as much as your technique can be honed on the practice pitch, it's only a simulation. At the show, under the fans microscope, without do-overs, is when a 'keeper is realy put to the test and learns his craft.

Hope I'm getting my point across in a not too confusing fashion. Good discussion.

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quote:When was the last time Lars made a big save for Canada? I think we have to go back quite a ways to find one. In our European friendly run I don't think he had a single stalwart match, keeping us in a game with a big stop. I am afraid that Lars is still living off that 2nd last Gold Cup run. Not enough as I see it. While Onstad at least has had at least a dozen strong games for the Quakes over the past two seasons.

I insist, under Yallop Onstad has done well for us. For now he's the man, though I agree that if Lars gets some first team action in a decent club the argument could be a bit closer.

The more pertinent question is: When is the last time Hirschfeld has let in a soft goal and lost a game for us? In all of the games I have seen him play in the last few years he has been solid even when not spectacular. The goals he allowed were legitimate goals, maybe an in form Oliver Kahn could have stopped one or two of them but they would be very difficult saves. Hirschfeld has ranged from decent to outstanding in his play for Canada. Onstad over the same period has ranged from decent to horrible, costing us several wins or ties. How he plays for San Jose is immaterial, what counts is how he plays for Canada. There is a huge difference in level playing against Costa Rica, Mexico and the USA and playing against the Chicago Fire and the Metro Stars. That being said, although I have seen him play some decent MLS games, I have often seen him let in weak goals in this league as well. Last year this was negated somewhat because San Jose often scored 3 or 4 goals in a game in which Onstad let in a weak one.

How can you insist that he has performed well for us under Yallop? How many of our games under Yallop have you seen in Spain? I saw both Onstad and Hirschfeld train in Ottawa and before each match in Kingston and Hirschfeld definitely looked the sharper of the two. This was the general consensus of the Voyageurs who attended the Ottawa training session I attended. His performance in Kingston was anything but confidence inspiring. What bothers me in particular is that he was shaky not just in one game but in both of them. Believe me if we were playing against Costa Rica with two gifted strikers buzzing around the goal as opposed to Belize with one amateur level striker who rarely entered the box his bobbles would have led to at least one goal. If this is what recent 1st team action produces than it is obviously not a very important factor in this case.

I, like Christian, also hope that he improves his performances and proves me wrong, particularly as I suspect Yallop may play him no matter what. I was also hoping that he had really improved during his year in the MLS but so far I have seen little evidence of this. From what I have seen he is still the shaky, mediocre keeper that he always was. I respect him for showing up for the MNT when called and chanted his name in support like the other Voyageurs during the game. But like many other of the Voyageurs in attendance was also shaking my head at some of his miscues. Maybe you would have been shaking your head as well if you had seen the match. I hope he performs better in the next round but he sure made me nervous in this one.

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quote:The more pertinent question is: When is the last time Hirschfeld has let in a soft goal and lost a game for us?

Wasn't he the GK against Cuba in the 2003 Gold Cup? [}:)]

He played very well against Costa Rica, but it again seems that

everyone will never forget Lars' shot-stopping performance versus

the U.S. in GC2002, nor Onstad letting in Angus Eve's goal against

T&T.

Both GKs are excellent and I have confidence in either. Yallop and Paul Dolan (GK coach) can decide ...

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I'll vote Onstad. I wanted to wait until I saw the second Belize game before I piped in.

I don't have as much to say on the topic as some others on here, as I don't think I'm too qualified. But I'm a big Lars fan, and I really really want him to get a chance to lead a team in England.

But Lars simply hasn't been playing top-level soccer, while Onstad has. Sure, the MLS isn't the best league in the world, but it is respectable, and Onstad was Keeper of the Year.

Yallop has confidence in Onstad, and he's seen him play more than any of us probably have. I say Yallop should back Onstad 100% and hope it brings out his best.

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Guest Jeffery S.

I think this whole debate suggests that neither is totally reliable right now. Lars could improve, maybe, admittedly, Onstad will not; I'll accept that.

But shaky keepers can often go a long way. I think Monaco's keeper was not very good at all, and look where they got this year. Though once again he got there the way Onstad has had success in San Jose, making some stops and mostly relying on his team to outscore the opposition, often coming back from a goal or more behind.

If we had a decent back line I wouldn't care too much about this debate, but we don't. You can't get results without three or four solid central defenders to chose from. Just look at the Eurocup, we are worse than any team there, including Latvia, especially when it comes to the back line. I am not optimistic about what will happen in our last quarter of the pitch for WCQ guys.

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quote:Originally posted by SeanKeay

All you sutton lovers, how can u say he should go to europe.. he couldnt cut it in the MLS.. so i really think u over rate him

Sutton has improved a lot over the past seasons. I was scary everytime he was touching a ball 2-3 years ago. Now he's totally different. Very confident. If you were seeing him more than once or twice a year you would understand. If San Jose are ready to give him a chance he could take Onstad's job. He got only 1 cap with Canada and got a shutout in the Barbados. He deserves another chance.

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