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Vote for Keeper


Canadienfan

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Guest Jeffery S.

For the semi-final round it has to be Onstad. Guys, he has one goal against in 3.5 matches under Yallop. I think Yallop gets great performances from him, maybe above his real level. Also he is in season all summer and will be on form at least.

The key is to get Lars into a club, playing, and get his game sharpness up.

All that said, I think our chances for Germany are in serious doubt on the basis of our central defence and goal-keeping, neither of which are first class. And you simply cannot go far without both.

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quote:It's gotta be Lars. Onstad scares me still in nets. Even against Belize!

How can you say that? Did you not see the point blank save he made in the second game? I can't believe some of the nonsense I read on this board. Onstad is a veteran(read: experienced) keeper. He is currently in mid-season form playing at a very high level. Why would anyone in their right mind start Lars at this time? No disrespect to Lars. He is a very capable keeper but he has had very little game time in the last year. When he starts playing first team football on a regular basis, we can start talking about who should start for Canada. Until then, I think Sutton should back up Onstad.

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Alberto, yeah it was a great save, but he also spilled a really easy shot. I mean I would have been mad at myself for fumbling it. He came off his line hastily and foolishly in the first game and he also nearly got caught on a chip and back-peddled quickly as the ball was well past him, but also over the bar. Bottom line he didn't look sharp.

I've seen Onstad on his game and he's very good, but even with little to do against Belize (and maybe that was why he was shaky) he didn't look at his best.

I still think he should start in August, but if Lars is starting wherever he winds up, I think he should be considered for the Sept. 4 match. I don't think he will be, but he should be.

I'm all for giving Sutton a look. I really believe we need a friendly before the next game. But I don't think Sutton is as good as Hirschfeld. Given Hischfeld was a little banged up, I don't understand why we didn't let Sutton come in to back up. There was only ever going to be one started against Belize (and realistically there's only going to be one starter in the SF round barring injuries or a disaster and if there's a disaster the margin for error is so slim, it don't think it will matter who starts in goal from then on).

cheers,

matthew

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quote:Originally posted by Alberto7

How can you say that? Did you not see the point blank save he made in the second game? I can't believe some of the nonsense I read on this board. Onstad is a veteran(read: experienced) keeper. He is currently in mid-season form playing at a very high level. Why would anyone in their right mind start Lars at this time? No disrespect to Lars. He is a very capable keeper but he has had very little game time in the last year. When he starts playing first team football on a regular basis, we can start talking about who should start for Canada. Until then, I think Sutton should back up Onstad.

I think the nonsense to be read on this board comes from your viewpoint. To suggest that Sutton is even in the same league as Hirshfeld is absurd.

I think someone made this point in a previous thread, but suggesting that Hirshfeld is not on his game because he spent the last year in Tottenham reserves is ridiculous. Would you say the same if a Canadian was the backup in Munich, or Milan? Of course not.

I realize you're a reporter for the A-League and that you see Sutton every week, but that does not make him world-class. Hirshfeld has proven he's world-class in past Gold Cups.

If I start every game for my rec league team, does that put me ahead in the pecking order for the Nats? Putting the Impact and Tottenham on the same level is similarly absurd.

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I have never watched Sutton play so I can't compare him with Hirsch or Patty. But I do believe in the perfect world, without Hirsh being injured, both of them would be each getting a start in the past 2 games with Belize.

I rate Hirsch quite a bit. That didn't change from the time I watched him train and the previous times when he donned the Canadian red.

But it's also true that Onstad is getting up there and though he did okay in the Belize games, he also looked a little bit shaky at times. Maybe it's a concentration thing.

Onstad should probably start the next few games but if Hirsh finds himself a club and some decent playing time, then I would say let their current form at the time dictates who gets to start.

As far as Sutton goes, maybe he will get the chance to start when the Canadian team plays in the West against the 2 British clubs... ... (Millwall and Hearts, I believe)

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quote:Originally posted by Mimglow

I think the nonsense to be read on this board comes from your viewpoint. To suggest that Sutton is even in the same league as Hirshfeld is absurd.

I think someone made this point in a previous thread, but suggesting that Hirshfeld is not on his game because he spent the last year in Tottenham reserves is ridiculous. Would you say the same if a Canadian was the backup in Munich, or Milan? Of course not.

I realize you're a reporter for the A-League and that you see Sutton every week, but that does not make him world-class. Hirshfeld has proven he's world-class in past Gold Cups.

If I start every game for my rec league team, does that put me ahead in the pecking order for the Nats? Putting the Impact and Tottenham on the same level is similarly absurd.

But to be honnest here, how many games did he play for Tottenham?

Don't get me wrong, I like Lars but I think Sutton deserves a chance...Remember, we had Onstad in Montreal way back...

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quote:Originally posted by François

But to be honnest here, how many games did he play for Tottenham?

But the thing is after he didn't play all those games for Tottenham, did he not perform really well for Gillingham when he went there on loan? Just cause you're not playing doesn't mean you're sitting there doing nothing.

I don't think Sutton deserves a chance with the A team yet. The B team, maybe.

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quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

But the thing is after he didn't play all those games for Tottenham, did he not perform really well for Gillingham when he went there on loan? Just cause you're not playing doesn't mean you're sitting there doing nothing.

I don't think Sutton deserves a chance with the A team yet. The B team, maybe.

I respect that...

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quote:Originally posted by François

But to be honnest here, how many games did he play for Tottenham?

Don't get me wrong, I like Lars but I think Sutton deserves a chance...Remember, we had Onstad in Montreal way back...

It's a matter of talent level, period. Lars is good enough to be a reserve on Tottenham: Onstad and Sutton are not.

If I play keeper week in - week out in my beer league, does that put me ahead of Lars in the pecking order?

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I don't think that the gulf between goalkeepers in, say, the EPL and MLS is a wide as it is for other positions. After all, Tim Howard went from MLS straight into the first team at Man Utd. Thus, I don't think you can say Lars Hirschfeld is better than Pat Onstad or Greg Sutton just because Lars was the backup for a Premiership team.

That being said, I do think Lars is our best option in goal. Not because he was the backup for Spurs but because, in the national team matches I've seen him play and seen Onstad play, I've felt that Hirschfeld has been better.

I saw Greg Sutton play for the first time a couple of weeks ago when RDS showed the match between the Impact and Richmond and I thought Sutton was impressive. I can't honestly say yet how I rate him vis-a-vis Onstad and Hirschfeld, but he certainly merits consideration.

All that being said, we all know that Yallop is going to play his old buddy Onstad so that's that isn't it?

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I have to agree with Mike D. Goal keepers are a different breed. I don't think that in Canada, we are at a disadvantge when it comes to developing GK to the same extent as we are when it comes to other position players. Much like in the US, Canadfian kids play alot of sports that enhance their hand eye coordination. And that is why in Canada and US it has been the keepers who have had more success advancing through the ranks in Europe ( eg>: eg>: Forrest,Friedl, Keller, Howard). Also, for all our weakness in various areas of the game in the past years, we have never been at a significant disadvantage when we played a domestically developed GK. This was teh case in 1986 with Tino Lettieri and continued to even the last U20 WYC with alim Karim who was entirely developed through the college system. Karim, really impressed me when I saw him against Spain. The exception being the GK we had in the 2001 WYC, whose name escapes me.

Therefore, we shouldn't have an inferiority complex with respect to GK's in realtion to Europe. Nor should it matter as much what professional tier someone is playing in. Hence just because some guy was in Europe, he should not be regarded as further ahead on the development and talent curve to the same extent as position players. Example, Unlike position player, I might prefer and Div 1 starter to a premiership backup. Therefore, I don't buy the fact that hirshfeld should get the automatic nod on the basis of his professional experienced. I have nothing against hirshfeld's performance in nets for Canada and for that, I have no complaints against seeing him included in Yallop's squad. But I am much more impressed with what Sutton is doing professionally than what Hirshfeld has accomplished professionally in the past two years. To reiterate, Sutton has only conceded 2 goals in 10 games this year. One was an own goal credited to himself and the other was on a PK.

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quote:I think the nonsense to be read on this board comes from your viewpoint. To suggest that Sutton is even in the same league as Hirshfeld is absurd.

I think someone made this point in a previous thread, but suggesting that Hirshfeld is not on his game because he spent the last year in Tottenham reserves is ridiculous. Would you say the same if a Canadian was the backup in Munich, or Milan? Of course not.

I realize you're a reporter for the A-League and that you see Sutton every week, but that does not make him world-class. Hirshfeld has proven he's world-class in past Gold Cups.

If I start every game for my rec league team, does that put me ahead in the pecking order for the Nats? Putting the Impact and Tottenham on the same level is similarly absurd.

First of all. I clearly said that Lars is a quality keeper. He just has not had very much game time recently. I do not put the Impact on the same level as Tottenham. That would be ridiculous. I strongly believe that Lars playing first team football in England or Scotland would develop his confidence enough to be considered to start for Canada(his skills are fine, he just needs playing time). The truth is he is not playing first team football and Onstad is. As far as Sutton is concerned, you are right. I see him play regularly and this certainly influences what I say. I would never suggest he is world class but he is easily MLS calibre. An excellent backup keeper who is number 3 or 4 on the depth chart.

As far as what I perceive as nonsense, I will just say that I can't understand people putting Onstad down regularly when he is a very capable keeper who NEVER turns down a chance to wear his country's colours.

In any case, this is all a moot point as someone pointed out: Yallop has confidence in Onstad. End of story.

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I agree with everthing you just said, Alberto.

Let's take the discussion around the corner, shall we? I'd like to talk about the "match-fitness" myth as it pertains to keepers. I keep reading on this board "Hirshfeld didn't play top level matches last year, he was just in the reserves".

Isn't playing time for a keeper overrated? Doesn't it come down to reflexes, positioning, and talent more than being match-fit?

I agree that seeing an Arsenal reserves player's free-kick is a little different than seeing a Beckham free kick, but is it really different than seeing a Carlos Ruiz free kick?

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Ok, I also agree with what you are saying. Talent, positioning and reflexes are the most important.

I play goal once a week and I find that I need to play regularly to feel on top of my game. Then again, I don't have 1/1,000th the talent of any of the keepers discussed here. So for me match fitness/playing time is important. I'm sure Lars would love more playing time regardless how talented he is.

peace.

Albert

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