MLS Bigger Than NHL?

[Yob]

"Soccer pundits argue that someday their game will become huge in this country and that Major League Soccer will one day be a "big four" sport."

http://www.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=2334616

[Mimglow]

I agree. In the USA, hockey is declining rapidly and soccer is sky-rocketing in popularity. One could even argue (although I hate to admit it) that golf has already passed hockey and that there are currently only 3 major sports in the U.S.

[amacpher]

Actually a more pressing question is: Is soccer already bigger than hockey in the U.S.? I say, yes!

And, oh yeah, its not MLS that's the most popular soccer league in the USA. The author of that article needs to wake-up to that fact!!

[SABuffalo786]

Apparently, that guy didn't see the second leg of the SJ-LA playoff series. Or the 97 MLS Cup at RFK. MLS Cup 2002 is such a bad example.

[Gordon]

Tell you what, the day the New York/New Jersey MetroStars draw the same as the New York/New Jersey RangerIslandersDevils (and we are ignoring Buffalo in this equation) paying anything close to the same ticket price we might have a debate. How did MLS do in Florida, home of the Panthers and Lightning? And how many soccer teams in LA-Anaheim? Soccer has a much longer way to go than many want to believe. I believe its possible for soccer to surpass hockey in the US, but they are a long way from having a town embrace soccer the way Detroit/Boston/Philly embrace hockey. Or a state going gaga over high school soccer the way Minnesota goes crazy over HS hockey. That isn't even close to happening.

[amacpher]

Gordon:

Is your debate that MLS has a long way to go to surpass NHL, or is it (what you actually write) that soccer has a long way to go to surpass hockey?? If its the former, I agree. If its the latter, you're definitely mistaken. NHL could only dream of getting ratings like the MFL does in the USA. Check-out this article: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040210/105148_1.html

Ok, that's one tournament, but it points to the size of the fan base of MFL (doesn't even include all the MLS, EPL, etc. fans out there. not to mention the people that dont get Fox Sports Espanol). The NHL averages a 0.23 ratings on ESPN2 for the regular season. The first-round this year, we're talking ratings around 0.5 to 0.8. Even MLS on the same channel gets ratings around 0.35!! I don't know what the weekly MFL ratings are, but safe to say its many times more than MLS, and thus, many times more than NHL!

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Gordon:

Is your debate that MLS has a long way to go to surpass NHL, or is it (what you actually write) that soccer has a long way to go to surpass hockey?? If its the former, I agree. If its the latter, you're definitely mistaken. NHL could only dream of getting ratings like the MFL does in the USA. Check-out this article: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040210/105148_1.html

Ok, that's one tournament, but it points to the size of the fan base of MFL (doesn't even include all the MLS, EPL, etc. fans out there. not to mention the people that dont get Fox Sports Espanol). The NHL averages a 0.23 ratings on ESPN2 for the regular season. The first-round this year, we're talking ratings around 0.5 to 0.8. Even MLS on the same channel gets ratings around 0.35!! I don't know what the weekly MFL ratings are, but safe to say its many times more than MLS, and thus, many times more than NHL!

Well I don't know what the ratings mean when they talk about .23 or 8.X. Number of households watching is more to my limited ability to understand. The debate of what constitutes "passing" is one that is always interesting. Are there more people in the US with a passing interest in soccer than in hockey. Yes, that is probably true. I am not sure of the market penetration of hocky in hispanic america for example, but I suspect it is not large. Hockey tends to be regional in the US. There are cities and states where hockey is a mania, and a big part of the overall sporting culture. I have yet to see that for soccer in the US. Like Canada, I am sure more people play soccer than hockey in the US as well. In any event, the NHL is way ahead of MLS, and will remain so for some time. So how about this: American hockey is still way ahead of American soccer in most aspects (viewership, fan support, relative world standing etc. etc.) But lags behind interest global soccer and has fewer kids playing it as their <s>sport</s> weekly activity.

[SABuffalo786]

I'm not really sure about that either. I mean if we're talking national teams, I honestly think there's more support for the soccer team than the hockey team. Purely based on the soccer team playing consistently about once every month or so. You have to wait 4 years to see the full USA hockey team. Plus, you've got places like Portland, CCS, Foxboro, RFK, etc. where there's been a lot of historic USA soccer games. It might not be mainstream folklore, but it's folklore none the less. Besides 1980, USA hockey simply doesn't have that.(But boy, what a thing to have!!!)

And how many American hockey clubs haver really hardcore support?

1.Boston

2.Detroit

3.Islanders

4.Philly

5.Rangers

6.Avs

7.Minnesota

After that it's pretty much lukewarm. And remember, some of those teams have been playing hockey for generations. I know MLS doesn't have a "premier" club, in terms of support yet. In the early years DC had an amazing following, and even now after all the suckiness, it's better supported than a lot of US hockey clubs. IMO, Chicago is going to be our first "big" club in terms of support. If things don't change, I could very easily see Soccer and Hockey swapping positions in the next 10-30 years.(support wise)

Viewership? About even. Freddy Adu may have just tipped the scales in soccer's favor, though.

Worldwide standing? Apples and oranges. The Hockey world is so less compeitive than soccer it's not even funny. What do you have with hockey? USA, Canada, Russia, Northern Europe, and Eastern Europe? Our soccer team has to take on the ENTIRE WORLD. We're ranked 7th in hockey, and 11th(yeah, yeah. FIFA rankings are crap) in soccer. Proportionally, our soccer team is better.

[WildboutCdnScr]

quote:Originally posted by SABuffalo786

I'm not really sure about that either. I mean if we're talking national teams, I honestly think there's more support for the soccer team than the hockey team. Purely based on the soccer team playing consistently about once every month or so. You have to wait 4 years to see the full USA hockey team. Plus, you've got places like Portland, CCS, Foxboro, RFK, etc. where there's been a lot of historic USA soccer games. It might not be mainstream folklore, but it's folklore none the less. Besides 1980, USA hockey simply doesn't have that.(But boy, what a thing to have!!!)

And how many American hockey clubs haver really hardcore support?

1.Boston

2.Detroit

3.Islanders

4.Philly

5.Rangers

6.Avs

7.Minnesota

After that it's pretty much lukewarm. And remember, some of those teams have been playing hockey for generations. I know MLS doesn't have a "premier" club, in terms of support yet. In the early years DC had an amazing following, and even now after all the suckiness, it's better supported than a lot of US hockey clubs. IMO, Chicago is going to be our first "big" club in terms of support. If things don't change, I could very easily see Soccer and Hockey swapping positions in the next 10-30 years.(support wise)

Viewership? About even. Freddy Adu may have just tipped the scales in soccer's favor, though.

Worldwide standing? Apples and oranges. The Hockey world is so less compeitive than soccer it's not even funny. What do you have with hockey? USA, Canada, Russia, Northern Europe, and Eastern Europe? Our soccer team has to take on the ENTIRE WORLD. We're ranked 7th in hockey, and 11th(yeah, yeah. FIFA rankings are crap) in soccer. Proportionally, our soccer team is better.

Your list of hockey teams needs to include San Jose. The Sharks are much more popular and widely followed in that market than the Earthquakes, even with their two MLS Cups.

[SABuffalo786]

Perhaps, but I wouldn't put them on par with say, a Colorado or Detroit. Don't let playoff fever fool you.

[Mimglow]

quote:Originally posted by WildboutCdnScr

Your list of hockey teams needs to include San Jose. The Sharks are much more popular and widely followed in that market than the Earthquakes, even with their two MLS Cups.

And Dallas...they're crazy about the Stars down there.

As for San Jose, they had a streak of over 100 straight sellouts about a year ago. Yes, they rank up there with Colorado and Detroit.

[SABuffalo786]

[bitter Buffalonian] Dallass has a hockey team? I didn't know that.[/bitter Buffalonian]

I'd also add C-Bus. They get good crowds, even though the Jackets suck. And wasn't it the Avs with the 100+ sellout streak? I didn't know the Sharks did that.

[Mimglow]

I can't recall if it was last year or the year before, but yeah, they had that streak going.

And yes, Brett Hull's goal should not have counted. Brett Hull S*cks, and he's a traitor.

[Gordon]

And Chicago has yet to get a mention. Even with a crappy team recently they are well supported.

As for Adu's impact on viewerhip, I suspect that it will be minimal after the first year. Sure, a lot of people want to go see the phenom, probably a lot of people who really are not soccer fans included. But after they have seen him live once... Maybe I am wrong, on this. Maybe his impact will be permanent. But more likely is a one time spike. I guess time will tell.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

And Chicago has yet to get a mention. Even with a crappy team recently they are well supported.

As for Adu's impact on viewerhip, I suspect that it will be minimal after the first year. Sure, a lot of people want to go see the phenom, probably a lot of people who really are not soccer fans included. But after they have seen him live once... Maybe I am wrong, on this. Maybe his impact will be permanent. But more likely is a one time spike. I guess time will tell.

I think that all depends on how quickly he can have an impact on the field. If his learning curve is quick (say, half of this season) and he begins to dominate soon, then his impact will be far greater than if he takes 2-3 years to dominate in MLS (assuming he ever gets to that point, of course).

[Gian-Luca]

Chicago's team isn't all that well supported all things considered. I've been to Chicago several times and the Blackhawks are well below the radar in the city, despite their history & loud crowds they used to get at Chicago Stadium (which I once risked my life walking to).

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

I think that all depends on how quickly he can have an impact on the field. If his learning curve is quick (say, half of this season) and he begins to dominate soon, then his impact will be far greater than if he takes 2-3 years to dominate in MLS (assuming he ever gets to that point, of course).

Echo that.

I personaly don't think the media hype is going to keep the expanded public interest for very long no matter what happens. And certainly young Mr. Adu will find it nearly impossible to match all the expectations which have been built around him. At least in the mind's eye of the irregular MLS fan/viewer.

And that's kinda a pity because the game down there is actualy worth a watch I think. The broadcasts aren't that bad anyway. They'll get even better when they hire a producer who can get some decent match commentators.

[DJT]

Speaking of hockey in the US, how irritating is it that on a Saturday during the NHL playoffs on which a Canadian team plays there is no HNIC ("N" is the key letter here) just so that ABC can show two afternoon games in the NHL's feeble attempt to sell hockey to American viewers as a weekend afternoon sport? [xx(]

[Mimglow]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

Echo that.

I personaly don't think the media hype is going to keep the expanded public interest for very long no matter what happens. And certainly young Mr. Adu will find it nearly impossible to match all the expectations which have been built around him. At least in the mind's eye of the irregular MLS fan/viewer.

And that's kinda a pity because the game down there is actualy worth a watch I think. The broadcasts aren't that bad anyway. They'll get even better when they hire a producer who can get some decent match commentators.

I don't generally mind Max Bretos and Allen Hopkins of Fox Sportsworld. I certainly admire how much work they actually put in. Am I the only one who can't tell them apart when they're commentating?

As for Eric Wynalda on ESPN/ABC, I couldn't stand him last year as a sideline guy and could not believe my ears when I heard he got promoted to the booth for this year. Although I do have to give him credit for calling a spade a spade when it comes to Adu. When the kid does something wrong, Wynalda points it out immediately.

[SABuffalo786]

quote:Originally posted by Mimglow

I don't generally mind Max Bretos and Allen Hopkins of Fox Sportsworld. I certainly admire how much work they actually put in. Am I the only one who can't tell them apart when they're commentating?

As for Eric Wynalda on ESPN/ABC, I couldn't stand him last year as a sideline guy and could not believe my ears when I heard he got promoted to the booth for this year. Although I do have to give him credit for calling a spade a spade when it comes to Adu. When the kid does something wrong, Wynalda points it out immediately.

No, I can't tell the two apart either. [|)]

And Wynalda? At least he's better than Ty Keough.

[SABuffalo786]

quote:Originally posted by Mimglow

I don't generally mind Max Bretos and Allen Hopkins of Fox Sportsworld. I certainly admire how much work they actually put in. Am I the only one who can't tell them apart when they're commentating?

As for Eric Wynalda on ESPN/ABC, I couldn't stand him last year as a sideline guy and could not believe my ears when I heard he got promoted to the booth for this year. Although I do have to give him credit for calling a spade a spade when it comes to Adu. When the kid does something wrong, Wynalda points it out immediately.

No, I can't tell the two apart either. [|)]

And Wynalda? At least he's better than Ty Keough.

[Mimglow]

Really? I disagree. Wynalda just gets on my nerves, but that's a question of personal taste.

[Cheeta]

Hopkin's has got his **** together. At least he comes across as very knowledgeable and informed. Can't recall him saying anything stupid anyway.

And Max. What can I say. The dramatics he feels he has to impose on the commentary to liven up the match could be done away with entirely. Maybe that's just him. I don't know. Some people just have a playful nature. But Geeeeezusss....

Still think the broadcasts are presented pretty well. Quite professional.

Tell you something, though. I am a-feard of what Canada's WCQs are going to look like.

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

And Max. What can I say. The dramatics he feels he has to impose on the commentary to liven up the match could be done away with entirely. Maybe that's just him. I don't know. Some people just have a playful nature. But Geeeeezusss....

I agree. Bretos and Hopkins can sound alike at times, but generally Bretos has a bigger mouth. Sooner or later he will be yelling, singing, faking an accent, etc. and you'll know who he is. I find him very irritating. He seems to think that people are tuning in to listen to him rather than watch the game:

- Christian Bozzo, the best commentator on FSW (too bad he only does Argentinian matches), tells Max to "let me enjoy this" (in other words, "shut the hell up!") when the fans erupt in celebration and Max feels he should erupt along with them

- Benni McCarthy scores for Porto in the UEFA Cup and Max thinks people want to hear him sing Elton John's "Benny and the Jets"

Yes, both of those actually happened. There are plenty of other examples but those are two of my favourites.

[Mimglow]

quote:Originally posted by DJT

I agree. Bretos and Hopkins can sound alike at times, but generally Bretos has a bigger mouth. Sooner or later he will be yelling, singing, faking an accent, etc. and you'll know who he is. I find him very irritating. He seems to think that people are tuning in to listen to him rather than watch the game:

- Christian Bozzo, the best commentator on FSW (too bad he only does Argentinian matches), tells Max to "let me enjoy this" (in other words, "shut the hell up!") when the fans erupt in celebration and Max feels he should erupt along with them

- Benni McCarthy scores for Porto in the UEFA Cup and Max thinks people want to hear him sing Elton John's "Benny and the Jets"

Yes, both of those actually happened. There are plenty of other examples but those are two of my favourites.

Sometimes it comes off as pre-planned, and that's when it irritates me. But most of the time he makes it feel genuine, and that's when I enjoy him the most. I like play-by-play guys who are lively once in awhile.

Nobody beats Motty though