The CSA trying to kill the CELTIC/ROMA MATCH

[fan]

Alfie Lau from Inside soccer MAGAZINE said last night on worldtalkradio.com that the CSA has intervened in some way on the Celtic/roma match to claim jurisdiction and stop it.Worst of all the CSA have no desire to arrange an international match.The owner of Inside Soccer magazine said it last night on worldtalk radio there has not been an international match that doesnt involve a canadian team for a long time since the CSA has "a rule" where they state a Canadian club must be involved.I dont know what he means by "rule" but it is irrelevant this is the point I was making several times in the past.Alphy said there is some news that the CSA is going to kill the upcoming match between Celtic and Roma as well.There is only one reason and it is the main reason they kill all soccer involvement outside of their domain or control, they do this because they dont make income and they lose control.

In the past twenty years ago entrepreneurs like steve stavro (an example: there were several others)used to purchase international games between clubs like ABERDEEN VS Manchester united or several other games like Santos vs Sparta these games were common and they generated huge amounts of fan and media support and income for the owners who parlayed this money into suppporting professional clubs and amateur soccer in Canada.

Then the CSA started charging huge amounts in so called "fees" to these entreprenures if they attempted to arrange a match.Even Andy Sharpe used the word "entreprenures" with scorn and dirision last night.

So they have effectively cut off all possible interest passion and media or financial support in Canada now.

That was and is their goal or mandate. Now that they have succesfully killed soccer in Canada except for anything that directly brings income into their own personal pockets or the CSA's administration kitty they have no idea of hoe to arrange a professional soccer match or market or run the CSA.

tHE ONTARIOSOCCERWEB.COM forum and many others are full of posts of parents utterly stunned ant the beaurcratic strangle the osa and the csa have imposed on there kids and clubs.

The electoral policy for the OSA and the CSA is designed to ensure there is no democratic procedure whatsoever and the people who are on the board stay on the board and in salaried positions of power.

They have implemented a system to communicate with all there members thar guarantees less than 15% of their membership are even capable of acccessing the information.Its call LOTUS NOTES!

Ever here of it?

Unless your an IT guy or can remember 20 years ago you probably have not.

First of all this software is very expensive extremely difficult to use and full of huge technical problems .I know because I am a techy geek .

But thats not the worst part less thaan 15% of people in their membership own it and they directly state your club must buy it and use it solely to communicate or your out.

That is a perfect example of how they isolate themselves nad ensure sovereign power.The recent examples of them now changing bylaws in the OSA to effectively ban or eliminate any clubs orgaisations or leagues that dont follow their new "authorized" criteria is evidence of their tyranny.

So now that they have kiiiled off alll interest and passion at the pro level they are making sure they do it at the amateur level.

They have been killing the passion and interest in soccer for so long now and it is so systemically interwoven in their mindset and organisatiobnal members they have no idea hoew to promote soccer.And certainly no interest in supporting anyone else but themselves who atempt to.If you can speak privately to the owners of the LYNX even they will tell you the kinds of negative political backstabbing they have encountered from the CSA.

The CSA must be dismantled if you have any chance for soccer to thrive in Canada.

[Michael Crampton]

I was actually wondering how Champions World had gotten around this rule because I had heard about it before as an explanation for why there aren't more games of this nature held in Canada. If the CSA does actually try to stop the game they better be ready for a really big lawsuit (how can this not be construed as conspiracy in restraint of trade by the courts? - it's bloody extortion) and a whole busload of people from the Burlington Celtic Supporters Club that will want to have "words" with Mr. Sharpe. This would be boneheadedness on a whole new level.

Mike.

[hamiltonfan]

That would just be stuiped...I think any kind of world class soccer games in Canada is good for the sport. The CSA should be more conserned about getting a friendly with the men team in at Sky Dome well the grass is there

[fan]

Once again two excellent ideas from fans at the voyageur forum,Just goess to prove there is no "will' on the part of the CSA.

Is there or has anyone here ever been able to directly contact Andy Sharpe I have tried several times seeems like he is very illusive.

IF someone can please assk him about this "rule" and even if the rule doesnt exist why there has been no international matches and Why the CSA didnt get up off their collective lazy selfish asses and make sure there are games like this and that like the above poster stated get a game or two games while the damn grass is down at the skydome?

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by BHTC Mike

I was actually wondering how Champions World had gotten around this rule because I had heard about it before as an explanation for why there aren't more games of this nature held in Canada. If the CSA does actually try to stop the game they better be ready for a really big lawsuit (how can this not be construed as conspiracy in restraint of trade by the courts? - it's bloody extortion) and a whole busload of people from the Burlington Celtic Supporters Club that will want to have "words" with Mr. Sharpe. This would be boneheadedness on a whole new level.

Mike.

Or perhaps the CSA got some thing out of this in return for the game taking place.

Don't jump to conclusions.

[Varsity Tyler]

I really don't care if the game is cancelled or not. Who is going to be disappointed besides the 50 000 fans? Most of them wouldn't show up to a national team game anyway.

[fan]

GOOD point Doyle.But i dont think they are getting a piece if they indeed are trying to kill it.

It has nothing to do with the two teams who are playing its about the outright undemocratic "rule" they have.That "rule" has killed the passion and desire that fuels the support for the game.Also as i said why hasnt the CSA been able to create anything even close to this type of game?It would be different if they killed the games and then created or produced better or higher quality events and revenue from games they create but they have succeeded in doing nothing but demean and ruin this game in Canada.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by hamiltonfan

That would just be stuiped...I think any kind of world class soccer games in Canada is good for the sport. The CSA should be more conserned about getting a friendly with the men team in at Sky Dome well the grass is there

Well put. When I first heard of this concept last year, I didn't like it initially principly because these foreign clubs had spurned matches versus domestic sides. Hence the whole purpose of the trip and series of matches came accross as nothing more than a money grab. But when the USSF allowed these matches to go on (even though no MLS team participated) and the attendances appeared very solid, I couldn't help but think that the positives of this series outweighed the negatives. Afterall it shows to the sporting public at large that soccer is not a fringe sport. There are no negatives and only positives for soccer in North America to having sold out stadiums to see a soccer game. Regardless of who is playing.

IMO the CSA would have a moral case to block these matches had they had some freindlies played in Toronto in recent years. I too would be very disappointed if you have a situation where the MNT's play here and few show up, yet the big clubs come in with their brand name and marketing muscle to make a big cash grab with a packed stadium. But we haven't any MNT play in TO in almost four years!!!!! so what the hell is the CSA doing by trying to block these matches or trying to extort $$$ from private businessmen who has taken a initiave. Plus he is willing to lay down a grass turf to make a large venue like the Skydome a soccer facility. The CSA would be wise to watch and learn how to stage and promote an important soccer game instead of being greedy and petty. If they suceed in blocking this match, it would tell us alot about what kind of vision these folks at the CSA have and their ineptness at growing the game in Canada.

[Ryan Keay]

Quite frankly, I think everyone is jumping to pretty quick conclusions here. Would ChampionsWorld have done all this promotion, advertising, started pre-ticket sales, etc. if the CSA wasn't being co-operative?

If they've done all that they've done so far without getting signatures for approval from something as vital as the national soccer governing body, quite frankly, this thing deserves to fall apart.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by BHTC Mike

I was actually wondering how Champions World had gotten around this rule because I had heard about it before as an explanation for why there aren't more games of this nature held in Canada. If the CSA does actually try to stop the game they better be ready for a really big lawsuit (how can this not be construed as conspiracy in restraint of trade by the courts? - it's bloody extortion) and a whole busload of people from the Burlington Celtic Supporters Club that will want to have "words" with Mr. Sharpe. This would be boneheadedness on a whole new level.

Mike.

On a matter of principle only, If this happens, I hope that the promoter does go to court. That stupid FIFA rule is not designed for countries like Canada or the US. It exists for a multi country continents like Europe (ie. to protect the FA's in smaller Euro countries). It most definitely is restraint of trade. The CSA or fifa doesn't own Canada. Hello CSA!!!!!!!

Plus how can you, on one hand say that in the year 2004 a private business cannot stage a soccer game in this country without giving a cut to some soccer association or having them tell the entrepreneur what to do. . In a way, I can't help but laugh at this because the discovery channell just finished showing several documentaries on New York crime families and I cannot help but see some paralells. The FA's are not governernments. They suppose to exist to administer soccer in their countries nd not tax and regulat private business ventures.

Funny how a recent WCQ in concacaf was stage in Florida where none of the two particpants were playing in their own country. Plus Belize ends up playing both of their only WCQ games in Canada. Yet you can't have two clubs stage a privately sponsored event???? Would this happen in the areas of theatre or Music? and would we be better if it did?

[Daniel]

The rule isn't a FIFA rule, but rather a CSA one.

The CSA oversees all affiliated soccer in Canada (ie not beer leagues, but all the rest) and FIFA does so for the world. CW can't come in to Canada and set up a game without the CSA's approval.

I'd expect the CSA to just ask for a cut OR have a friendly on the same-day or around the same day as the game.

[Jarrek]

quote:wouldn't show up to a national team game anyway.

Not if you host it at run down Varsity Stadium. Anyways, I think times are changing. You will see a lot more people show up for Men's national team games then in the past. Besides, international soccer matches in the past weren't that HUGE of a draw anyways.

As for the Celtic-Roma match, it will be a HUGE dissapointment if the CSA tries to cancel the match. I am buying several tickets for the game, and have been told that tickets are selling swiftly and the game will most likely be sold out.

Why would the CSA do such a stupid thing??? I think it may cause more harm to the CSA and soccer in general in Canada if the game is NOT hosted.

I'll wait for something more official before commenting more ...

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

The rule isn't a FIFA rule, but rather a CSA one.

The CSA oversees all affiliated soccer in Canada (ie not beer leagues, but all the rest) and FIFA does so for the world. CW can't come in to Canada and set up a game without the CSA's approval.

I'd expect the CSA to just ask for a cut OR have a friendly on the same-day or around the same day as the game.

Again, I am arguing on principle only. There is no way one can enforce that kind of rule in these circumstances therefore the rule is meaningless. I cannot imagine this ever passing a legal test. Not that I am a lawyer or any kind of expert on legal matters. This is a soccer game not beer drinking competition or mass orgy. In the latter case, you have censorship boards and liquor licencing board who regulate for the public good. But this is a soccer game:D

The CSA can ask all they want, But if I am the promoter I don't have to give them a damn thing. As a fan or the CSA I can rightfully say: Shame on them for for taking the $$$ and not giving anything back to the game in Canada.

Again, I am arguing this on principle only.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Well put. When I first heard of this concept last year, I didn't like it initially principly because these foreign clubs had spurned matches versus domestic sides. Hence the whole purpose of the trip and series of matches came accross as nothing more than a money grab. But when the USSF allowed these matches to go on (even though no MLS team participated) and the attendances appeared very solid, I couldn't help but think that the positives of this series outweighed the negatives. Afterall it shows to the sporting public at large that soccer is not a fringe sport. There are no negatives and only positives for soccer in North America to having sold out stadiums to see a soccer game. Regardless of who is playing.

How long do you think before MLS wants into the action and the end of the old format takes place.

How long is it before it becomes tours similar to the NHL-Soviet tours of the 70's and 80's?

[Ryan Keay]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

The CSA can ask all they want, But if I am the promoter I don't have to give them a damn thing.

While it is true that the promoter could do such a thing, I would think that both Roma and Celtic would rather not be suspended by FIFA for participating in an unsanctioned game. That's the ultimate trump card in such a situation.

[fan]

some excellent points guys but keeep your eye on the ball(nut in shell game). The shisters at the CSA are quite competent and juggling semantics to the point where you will end up choking on the nut.

The point is the CSA has not organised or created any match of any quality in the last 20 years close to even this average by world clas standards match celtic/roma

The next point is is there a rule?It should be investigated.

If there is a rule it shold be reviewed or removed

IF the CSA wants a cut and is extorting it behind the scenes.Lets determine the cut and publicly annnounce it so the public can follow the money trail and entrepreneurs know the terms.This has been the point some entrepreneurs have stated that they have been asked by the CSA to pay huge amounts of money to stage an invent in Canada by the CSA.The proof is in the pudding there have been no events why not they obviosly make top dollar and entrepreneurs want to make top dollar so why has no one staged one ?Thats what Alphy from ISM asked either the CSA demands money or cites this "rule"

So lets get Alphy or someone who can actually ask Andy Sharpe this question directly.

The next point is this is an excellent revenue and marketing showcase celtic/roma that is taking place in our own city within one of our best stadiums with grass.And the CSA have to be shown this by outsiders or entrepreneurs.No wonder Andy used the term entrepreneur with such scorn.

Now thats incompetent and embarassing which i suspect the CSA and Andy Sharpe are feeling right now.

[DJT]

I have already made my feelings about this match clear in another thread. But as much as it bugs me, so does the thought that the CSA might try to stop it. First, because I don't see why they should have any say over such things. Second, and more importantly, because their time, money and effort should be directed towards improving Canadian soccer, not pointless causes like this.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by DJT

I have already made my feelings about this match clear in another thread. But as much as it bugs me, so does the thought that the CSA might try to stop it. First, because I don't see why they should have any say over such things. Second, and more importantly, because their time, money and effort should be directed towards improving Canadian soccer, not pointless causes like this.

How would you feel if your trying to promote the sport in Canada. I certainly wouldn't be happy seeing such a tour because it makes the job of promoting the game in Canada more difficult.

I would certainly demand a chunk from the revenue for the game.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

I certainly wouldn't be happy seeing such a tour because it makes the job of promoting the game in Canada more difficult.

I hear this exact logic time and time again:

Big soccer match in Canada => promotes the sport of soccer => hurts the Canadian National Soccer team.

I still don't understand this logic!

[fan]

Doyle that is exactly the attitude that kills the game.You are selectively focusing on points that irrelevant in of themselves.Its is not a problem that the CSA wants a piece.

Its the fact they havent produced anything whatsoever themselves.

Why havent the CSA cooperated with corporations ,entrepreneurs or anyone else to stage quality matches like this one?

They have the opportunity right in front of their noses and are exposed and embarassed by an outside groups.

Because they dont care and there main interest is not in promoting the game in Canada.

You dont need to be Einstein to figure this out its clear as day.

This game represents the total icompetence of the CSA whether it gets cancelled or goes on.This game is a perfect example of what the CSA have failed to do for over 20 years.

[fan]

correction to my above posts it was Alphonso from ISM not Alphie Lau too many alphs.... i guess sorry.

[Massive Attack]

I agree mostly with DoyleG and DJT on this issue. I believe that the CSA has no right to take a cut from the event. However, I don't see how this event helps Canadian soccer. Anyone who thinks it does is living in a dream world. This kind of event perpetuates the notion that Canadian NT and pro soccer is small time, while the real thing is played in Europe/South America.

[fan]

Well thats the truth Massive Attack north america is small time and does not have any teams of that quality.

Again its not this one Match its about the collective events mentioned clearly in the posts above.

Yes these kinds of matches in succesion on a constant babsus do promote soccer in Canada nd do create lots of revenue that is parlayed into Canadian professional and amateur teams.

That is what happened here in Canada in the late sixties and seventies.

I was able to see Pele and Beckenbauer and all the great soccer players from around the world on a regular basis that is any soccers fans dream.

Then the NASL was created and i was able to see all the great players of the world on a weekly basis we had Eusebio here playing for toronto again a soccer fans dream come true.

There were crowds of between 25 and 50 thousand all over the states and in Canada on a weekly basis.

And Canadian players played along side those greats and developed Everyone in Canada and the states benefitted enormously .

That is a real world example of what life in the Canadian soccer world can be like.

But you wil never see it with the present CSA attitude and incompetence.

[Marc]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

I hear this exact logic time and time again:

Big soccer match in Canada => promotes the sport of soccer => hurts the Canadian National Soccer team.

I still don't understand this logic!

One coudl argue that it indirectly harms the Canadian game. It underhandedly says that in order for fans to enjoy quality soccer we have to import it in one-off, foreign events that are little more than cash grabs. (I received an email from the Lynx saying that Lynx ticket-holders can buy tickets through them, with the lowest price beign $50 each in the 500 section of Skydome - THE FIVE HUDNRED SECTION!)

I think (if I'm not mistaken and someone hasn't already brought this up, that) the CSA mandates having Canadian content is not only to take a cut of the profits for the growth of the game here, but also to encourage teams to come over and tour, involving Canadian clubs. This promotes the growth of our sport and reconciles foreign tours with the promotion of Canadian soccer as well.

Ryan's right on the nose that people are jumping the gun, and if CW did this without CSA approval, they are irresponsible and unprofessional.

[fan]

yes you can argue all you want but facts and experience have proved that it has and still does support and bolster interest and passion in the game.

Look reality is reality there are simple and clear ways of generating interest and high quality soccer in Canada but the CSA has never developed one event and the fact is no matter what you state here the game of soccer in Canada has been going downhill in quality steadily for over 20 years and the CSA are the people running the show.

They bear the responsibility but will not accept any of the consequences because first they are not honourable enough to resign and second they have created a bearaucratic undemocratic election process that makes it next to impossible to replace them.

Some of these board members and coaches and all the rest have been here for over 20 years during this incredible reign of incompetence.