Clarke is a whiner just like Quinn

[Varsity Tyler]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Now we see exactly what this type of attitude leads to in the Bertuzzi incident and this is what bugs me. The type of reckless, one-sided commentary provided by Crawford, Quinn and Clarke ...

You have to love how when an event does not involve Toronto, the city and team is found guilty of some sort of wrong regardless. The Bertuzzi fiasco does not have anything to do with Pat Quinn or the Leafs, so please stop making the erroneous claims against Toronto. They're purely speculative and are completely emotionally driven.

I'm not here defending the Leafs; I'm from Toronto and I know that they're not an overly clean team. That being said, when somebody like Domi does something aggressive and stupid, his team is not compared to every other sinning team in the NHL. Teams are independent and the situations are too, so please take the time to understand that before you slander Toronto for a Vancouver incident.

[SeanKeay]

Its old time hockey Grizzley, it has nothing to do with Quinn, Clarke or anyone else. Back when they played they faught each other to end differences. If you think that is being cheap then so be it. But when Quinn ran over Orr, quinn knew that he was gonna get a beating for it and im pretty sure he did.

But thats the way hockey should be played, But a fights a fight..... cheap shots like what bertuzzi did has nothing to do with fighting. Idiots play the game, u cant take them out... plain and simple

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

I didn't see the Bertuzzi incident, but was it anything like what Domi did to Ulf Samuelsson in the 1995/96 season??? Or was it more of a Darcy Tucker-like cheapshot?

Neither. Doesn't even come close to anything either of those players have done. Nor even a Steve Webb cheap shot. Only the McSorely incident can compare (which is what most people are doing).

Although the No Humour League suspended Domi for his punch to the face of Samuelsson all those years ago, privately everybody (even the Ranger teammates) all congratulated him. And rightly so. Just ask Pierre Mondou.

[amacpher]

The only way to reduce cheap-shots is to give out stiffer penalties and suspensions. Anybody wanna bet that Bertuzzi will just get a slap-on-wrist for this? Remember I never even saw the incident or heard about it outside of this forum, so he could have brought a chainsaw onto the ice for all I know, but he aint gonna be suspended that long! Certainly not a year!

[SeanKeay]

HOLY.... i see it like every 5 min amac..... you must live under a rock... or in sask

[Guest Ed]

Now that bit of work was nasty. A two hander, below the shoulders, is not.

See HOCKEY 101.

[Grasshopper]

I'm not so sure about the teammates comment G-L. As I recall it, Ulfie was very popular with his own teammates, perhaps not because of how he played, but definitely in the dressing room he was top notch with his teammates. I recall the trade that sent him from Hartford to Pittsburgh way back when and how the Whalers were going to miss his presence in the dressing room.

Blair

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Although the No Humour League suspended Domi for his punch to the face of Samuelsson all those years ago, privately everybody (even the Ranger teammates) all congratulated him. And rightly so. Just ask Pierre Mondou.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Grasshopper

I'm not so sure about the teammates comment G-L. As I recall it, Ulfie was very popular with his own teammates, perhaps not because of how he played, but definitely in the dressing room he was top notch with his teammates. I recall the trade that sent him from Hartford to Pittsburgh way back when and how the Whalers were going to miss his presence in the dressing room.

Blair

Well, the Whalers would have missed anybody's presence in the dressing room. [] I was exaggerating, of course, though I have heard rumours about this similar to the time Sylvain Lefebrve clocked Rob Brown & sent him down with just one punch, much to his teammates delight. Samuelsson was long hated in the NHL and had played against his then-teammates for quite some time....

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Well, the Whalers would have missed anybody's presence in the dressing room. [] I was exaggerating, of course, though I have heard rumours about this similar to the time Sylvain Lefebrve clocked Rob Brown & sent him down with just one punch, much to his teammates delight. Samuelsson was long hated in the NHL and had played against his then-teammates for quite some time....

Not sure about these stories about players on opposing teams being happy that a certain team mate got pummelled by an opposing player. I have never liked Samuelsson, but when I first heard that tale about the Domi/Samuellson incident, I immediately chaulked it up to home town propaganda designed to defend Domi's actions. Have we ever heard any similar tales about a local players in opposite scenario? I am sure that there have been or currently are many Leafs who weren't or aren't popular with their teammates or around the league?

For example, Do you think Al Iafrate ( durring his final days in TO) wouldn't have minded pummelling Gary Leeman? Do you think the TO media would reported Big Al would have been happy to see an opposing pummel the player who XXX XX XXXX XXX XXXX? Certainly not

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Not sure about these stories about players on opposing teams being happy that a certain team mate got pummelled by an opposing player.

I think "pummelled" would be greatly overstating both incidents that I am referring to. Its important to note that in both instances the the incidents were far more humourous than they were horrific and nobody was seriously hurt (unlike the case with the Bertuzzi incident). We are talking about one punch, rather than a succession of punches that would more accurately constitute a "beating" or a "pummelling". I don't think any team-mate or even opposing player would seriously enjoy another player getting seriously hurt, and that's not what I'm suggesting. But a guy dropping the gloves and going down rather easily with one weak punch before getting up, it shouldn't be hard to believe that if that player was unpopular with one or two of his mates that they'd find it somewhat amusing.

I can't vouch for the 100% accuracy of these tales, as I've never been a member of any NHL team and thus never been in the dressing room (and neither, presumably, has anyone else on the board)- but this is what I've heard. And I have heard similar tales that apply against the Leafs as well, rather than for them - one involving Tom Fergus springs to mind. This is supposed to be a family forum so I'll refrain from mentioning what Russ Courtnall's nickname used to be. We could probably devote an entire forum to discussion about the history of Leaf teammates that didn't get along very well - I don't think its more prevalent in Toronto than elsewhere, but we here about it in Toronto quite a bit, since the team has been long under the Toronto microscope and rumours as to why it was that Gary Leeman showed up to the 1989 all-star game with a black eye are well-known. And was anybody really surprised when Gary Roberts beat the crap out of Travis Green a few games ago?

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

For example, Do you think Al Iafrate ( durring his final days in TO) wouldn't have minded pummelling Gary Leeman? Do you think the TO media would reported Big Al would have been happy to see an opposing pummel the player who XXX XX XXXX XXX XXXX? Certainly not

You edited your response to include this after I had already responded to your original post that didn't include it. I wholeheartedly agree about Iafrate & mentioned the same incident. I'm not really clear about what your point is though, as you seem to be agreeing with me.

[Grizzly]

Old time hockey in my opinion is what happened in the Sens-Flyers game, one on one fights where everyone had a chance to defend themselves. What Bertuzzi did was cowardly and vicious assault. Anything less than a full calendar year ban is an insult to the fans. I also think it is insulting that no suspension of Crawford is being considered which is indicative of the problem in itself. This incident is an inditement of the NHL as well as Bertuzzi. Usually they call about 50% of the penalties that should be called during the season and almost no penalties in the playoffs but this year we have had playoff reffing the whole year, i.e. players don't face consequences for their actions. These same players then receive very minor suspensions for serious incidents (even as a Sens fan I think Havlat should have received more than two games for his crosscheck on Recchi. It should be noted however that he was hooked first by Rechi and got away was then hooked by another Flyer and managed to unhook himself to return to be hooked by Recchi a second time within 30 seconds and with not one penalty call. This is not excusing what he did but stating that if stickwork is not penalized it will lead to more stickwork.) Then the coaches and managers are allowed to make disgraceful, one-sided commentaries that show complete disrespect for the other coaches, teams and players and often include violent threats against opposing teams. Among the worst offenders in this regard are Crawford, Quinn and Clarke. It should be noted that in the Brashear-McSorley incident that McSorley flipped out and did something vicious in the heat of the moment. However, the Canucks players and management had been making threatening comments about Moore for over a week with no action from the league. They may not have intended to seriously injure Moore but they definitely did intend to harm him and were criminally reckless in carrying this out. Nor were they satisfied when Moore did the manly thing and had a fair fight with the first person to challenge him. That should have been enough, one can understand Moore not wanting to spend the whole game fighting. I am not blaming Quinn or Clarke for the incident, the blame lies with Canucks management and players. However, Clarke and Quinn are guilty of the same sort of behaviour that led to this incident and may lead to similar incidents if it continues. That is why I will never respect Quinn or Clarke or their teams as long as they are associated with them (as I stated before I am a closet Leafs fan, without Quinn they would be my 2nd or 3rd favourite team). I hope they clean up their act or the NHL finally does something about it and punishes them for their actions. How do you think the DFB would react if Matthias Sammer publicly stated that his players would be out to get Oliver Kahn in their next match. Or UEFA if Hitzfeld stated that Beckham should watch his neck in today's Champion's League game? The NHL must change the atmosphere and mindset that leads to such behaviour. They may not be able to stop an incident like McSorley where one player just flips out but they certainly could have prevented the injury to Moore. Had Crawford or May received immediate suspensions for their dispicable comments none of this would have happended. The players would have seen that there are consequences for their actions.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

You edited your response to include this after I had already responded to your original post that didn't include it. I wholeheartedly agree about Iafrate & mentioned the same incident. I'm not really clear about what your point is though, as you seem to be agreeing with me.

Actually I was editing my response WHILE you must have been typing you post. I did not see your post until after editing my response

[Grizzly]

Here are a couple of editorials about the issue, the one about Clarke being written shortly before the Bertuzzi incident which completely proved his point. And I am sure Ed will enjoy this great human being's comment that it wasn't the Flyers fault that Neilson got cancer.

The animals are loose, get the cages

Hugh Adami

The Ottawa Citizen

Wednesday, March 10, 2004

Avs' Andre Nikolishin (top) comes to the aid of Steve Moore, bottom, after his teammate was struck by Todd Bertuzzi (44).

CREDIT: Chuck Stoody, The Canadian Press

What happened in Vancouver the other night brings with it an ultimate irony in a game in which threats and violence have become so commonplace that those in charge don't even know how to react any more to show that they care, let alone know what to do to control it.

By preying on Colorado Avalanche rookie Steve Moore and then attacking him from behind, Vancouver Canucks forward Todd Bertuzzi sent a message to the NHL -- and coaches like Marc Crawford and Ken Hitchcock, general managers like Bobby Clarke and Brian Burke, and players like himself -- that threatening, stalking and striking out at opponents is for animals who should be in cages.

Video footage of the incident was replayed over and over on sports TV networks yesterday, and the affect was always the same. It was an all-out assault by a predator, whose human rage grows as his hockey reputation rises.

It was sickening.

In a game the Canucks would lose 9-2, Bertuzzi, 29, follows Moore, 25, from the neutral zone to the defensive zone, waits momentarily and then follows him back to the neutral zone again, where he decides it's time to strike. He grabs Moore's sweater from behind with his left hand, causes Moore's head to turn a bit so that it is in the path of a wild swing from Bertuzzi's right gloved hand. Bam.

Moore lands head-first on the ice and the heavy Bertuzzi, now 245 pounds -- 21 more than when he broke into the league in 1995-96 -- crashes on top of his opponent's back. Moments later, a pool of blood begins to form around the head of the unconscious victim.

Then comes the footage of Avalanche goon Peter Worrell mouthing off in the direction of the Canucks' bench, being ejected from the game, stomping off and then trying to get to a fan before he is finally restrained.

Rollerball is back on reality TV.

This disgusting attack by Bertuzzi, a star who now officially has goon status, was payback for a check by Moore that resulted in a concussion for Canucks star Markus Naslund on Feb. 16. No doubt, it will serve notice to the NHL that it must step in when angry coaches and general managers decide to declare war on opponents because of what they perceive as a dirty hit or what they see as the next installment of a bitter rivalry.

Are you listening, Pat Quinn?

Just as the league reacts with suspensions when Andre Roy charges the other team's dressing room to get even with somebody, the NHL must do the same when a team official like Clarke of the Philadelphia Flyers charges the dressing room of the Ottawa Senators, demanding to see coach Jacques Martin, whom Clarke, in a rage, calls a "gutless puke" because he thinks Martin was getting his goons to go after his skill players.

It's not good enough for the league to say that it will "monitor" future Ottawa-Philadelphia games -- coincidentally, a statement made just hours before the Bertuzzi-Moore incident -- in case Clarke says something in "the heat of the moment" again or a donnybrook breaks out on the ice. It was the NHL's laissez-faire approach that led to Bertuzzi's attack on Moore Monday night, just weeks after Burke, the Canucks' general manager, and Crawford, the Canucks' coach, reacted angrily to Moore's hit on Naslund.

"I think it's a marginal player going after a superstar with a head-hunting hit," said Burke at the time. "I thought it was a cheap shot. ... This was a chance to take out a star player and he took it."

Well, this "marginal player" now lies in a Vancouver hospital, with a broken neck, a concussion and his hockey career in question.

How much more marginal can it get for Moore?

Meanwhile, Bertuzzi, who apparently was too distraught to speak yesterday and wishes Moore a speedy recovery, will be suspended, hopefully for the rest of the season, and his attack will more than likely result in criminal charges as police are now investigating.

It was Vancouver police who charged Marty McSorley with assault in 2000, after the then-Boston Bruins defenceman clubbed former Canucks player Donald Brashear with his stick. And some commentators were saying yesterday that the Bertuzzi attack was as bad, if not worse.

This was worse.

McSorley, a goon who was suspended for a year by the NHL, was convicted and given an 18-month conditional discharge. Bertuzzi's star status may help in terms of a shorter NHL suspension, but his high profile will hurt him in terms of the police investigation.

In hindsight today, it's disgusting to recall what Hitchcock had to say about Senators winger Martin Havlat after the 22-year-old winger took a swipe with his stick at Flyers forward Mark Recchi during a Feb. 26 game and struck his opponent's visor.

Recchi, who was hooking the often-manhandled Havlat, wasn't hurt and finished the game. Havlat was ejected and was also suspended for the next two games.

Hitchcock -- who was an assistant coach for the Canadian Olympic team in 2002 and will have the same role in the upcoming Canada Cup tournament -- told reporters Havlat would be forced to "eat his lunch" and that he believed seeking vengeance for Havlat's deeds "is something the players should take care of."

Where was the NHL after Hitchcock shot off his mouth? It was there to nail Havlat for stickwork, but nowhere to be found when Hitchcock, 52, decided to put a bounty on the kid's head.

Would it be unfair to assume that the numerous brawls that broke out in the dying minutes of Friday's Philadelphia-Ottawa game had something to do with what Hitchcock said about Havlat a week or so earlier? Had the NHL stepped in then and shown that it wanted its teams to play hockey and not be vigilantes, is it possible that the Senators and Flyers wouldn't have set an NHL record in penalty minutes? And is it possible that this would have kept Clarke from exasperating the problem by threatening Ottawa players like Daniel Alfredsson and Marian Hossa next time the Senators play the Flyers, in Philadelphia on April 2?

The answer to the last question should be academic now because Todd Bertuzzi's thumping of Steve Moore will be a reminder to players of what happens when you go gonzo. Somebody gets badly hurt. And in the worst-case scenarios, the cops come in. The Bertuzzi attack was one of those worst cases, and that's why you hear sirens.

It will be refreshing to see the NHL and its players walking on eggshells for a while.

Clarke's mouth runneth over

Hugh Adami

The Ottawa Citizen

Tuesday, March 09, 2004

Surely, if hockey is represented by Frank Mahovlich in the Senate, Bobby Clarke should be able, one day, to get a Canadian ambassadorship -- hopefully, to some faraway place where there are no people, just lions and tigers.

As an NHL general manager, Clarke has certainly proven that professional hockey still has room for boors in the offices above its rinks, where he also once played -- and played dirty -- for the Philadelphia Flyers, the team he has overseen for 16 seasons, not including his time in Florida and Minnesota, since the mid-1980s.

It is a wonder that Clarke has not been publicly reprimanded by the NHL for his latest tirade, the one in which he used vulgar and profane language in accusing Ottawa Senators coach Jacques Martin of sending his tough guys after Philadelphia's "(expletive/don't know how to fight) Europeans" near the end of the Ottawa-Philly game Friday, which the Flyers won 5-3.

For now, the NHL considers Clarke's remarks to have been made in "the heat of the moment," but spokesman Frank Brown said the league may step in if it happens again.

The verbal explosion came after Clarke had to be restrained by security as he tried to get Martin to come out of the Senators' dressing room in the Wachovia Centre. He set himself up for a tough act to follow, but Clarkey came through again: "Martin sends out somebody to jump on (Sami) Kapanen. What the (expletive) is going on with that? That gutless puke Martin doing that (expletive). But when you pull that (expletive) off, it comes back to get you."

Just like Flyers coach Ken Hitchcock did eight days earlier by putting a bounty on Ottawa's Martin Havlat for striking the visor of Philly's Mark Recchi with his stick, Clarke set the stage for the next game between the Flyers and Senators, on April 2 in Philadelphia.

That's when Senators players like Daniel Alfredsson and Marian Hossa won't be able to hide, according to Clarke.

Never mind a regular-season game, Clarke may actually be setting up a playoff confrontation between the two teams and, in so doing, hoping to get the edge after Philadelphia was eliminated by the Senators in each of the past two seasons. The Senators did seem to be off their game Friday, so maybe Hitchcock was onto something with the attack on Havlat. Clarke may have just been trying to keep a good thing going.

There's nothing wrong with that type of strategy, except that Clarke got very personal, low and dirty about Martin. To call a coach as respected as Martin a "gutless puke" is vicious, vile and unfair. All of which suggests that Clarke doesn't use words as strategy, but rather because he learned to speak this way living under a bridge in Flin Flon, Man. -- with trolls.

He liked to spout off, too, during his hockey-playing days as a member of the Broad Street Bullies, the Flyers' team that won two Stanley Cup championships, in 1974 and 1975. But it was his teammates who entered the fray with their fists once Bobby was through with the talking.

A sampling of abrupt, mean and thoughtless remarks made by Clarke through the years:

"I don't care whether Pierre likes it or not. The teams that spend the money end up winning." -- Oct. 3, 1997. Clarke to reporters after then-Senators general manager Pierre Gauthier criticized the Flyers for signing Chris Gratton to a contract worth $22.6 million U.S.

"Who would want him? He's a high-salaried, high-skill guy who has been an under-achiever.... If he needs his ass kicked, we've got to do it. And, if he doesn't respond, he'll be taking a huge (pay cut) to play elsewhere next year." -- Oct. 11, 1998, on Alexandre Daigle, who arrived at training camp out of shape. Daigle had been traded from the Senators to the Flyers the previous January.

"I don't dislike Eric. I pity him. I feel sorry for him. What's it like to be 27 years old and have your mom and dad running your life? Can't even go to the ... doctor on your own without your mom and dad coming along." -- March 2000, on Eric Lindros, when the former Flyers star criticized the team trainer for the allegedly poor treatment he received after his fourth concussion.

"If he comes back, it's going to be as his own self. We don't want his mom and dad. We've had enough of them." -- June 6, 2000, on the continuing Eric Lindros soap opera.

"I would never hit a woman. This is so incredibly wrong. I've never even seen a woman hit, and I grew up in a mining town." -- July 20, 2000. Another Clarkeism slips out as he explains how sorry he is that he signed an affidavit in support of lower bail for an admitted wife-beater. Residents of Flin Flon, where Clarke was born and raised, were not amused.

"Yashin is an ass. He went out and sold his house, sold his car, pissed the owner off, hurt himself and his teammates." -- Nov. 2, 2000. On whether he would be interested in having Alexei Yashin, embroiled in a contract dispute with the Senators and suspended for the season, play for the Flyers.

"The Neilson situation was when Roger got cancer. That wasn't our fault. We didn't tell him to go get cancer. It's too bad that he did and we feel sorry for him, but then he went goofy on us." -- Dec. 21, 2000, in explaining why the Flyers decided that Neilson couldn't be head coach any more after he returned to the team from cancer treatment the previous spring.

"I think it would be very difficult to bring Roman back. I don't think he wants to come back. I think he feels (Philadelphia) is not a good thing for him." -- May 12, 2003. Clarke to reporters after Flyers goalie Roman Cechmanek is handed most of the blame for his team's second-round playoff loss to the Ottawa Senators. Cechmanek said later he didn't know where Clarke had got those ideas because he had yet to speak to him.

"He made a whole career out of that goal, a whole life out of that." -- Sept. 18, 2002. Attacking Paul Henderson, who scored the goal that won the 1972 Summit Series between Russia and Canada, a few days after Henderson reflected that Clarke's vicious slash on Russian star Valeri Kharlamov in Game 6 was the "low point of the series."

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Actually I was editing my response WHILE you must have been typing you post. I did not see your post until after editing my response

You're probably right - not that it matters a whole lot, one way or the other the effect is the same. I was just explaining why I provided the Leeman example in my response.

However, I'm still unsure as to what your general point was.

[Gian-Luca]

I seem to have missed something - when exactly did Quinn pull a Reg Dunlop?

[Guest Ed]

My that Hugh Adami outgoogled the googlers on his sampling of "abrupt, mean and thoughtless remarks made by Clarke through the years". He did not cover sports at Carleton but now he is an expert googler. Right on.

Let's see. Is there one of those quotes that I don't agree with. I don't know enough about the domestic habits of miners in Flin Flon to comment on that one (I do know that the wife beating on the many forces bases I lived on went on behind closed doors, so it sounds about right). Daigle. Lindros. Yashin. The bible salesman. Pretty much echoes my opinions right across the board there. Thanks for the sanity check. And we come at last to poor Captain Video or whatever immortal name he goes by now. I rarely speak ill of the dead, but the man was right up there with Mackenzie King in my all-time kook list. Got along with his dog OK I guess.

But I'd like to ask Grizzly how often he saw Clarke play? I seem to recall Bobby Clarke looking after little Reggie when they were on the ice. Not hiding behind anybody. But you'd know better, getting your info from those expert hockey writers at the Ottawa Citizen.

[Grizzly]

Just one example:

Ottawa captain Daniel Alfredsson broke his stick midway through the third period and faked throwing it in the stands, obviously poking fun at Sundin.

Toronto enforcer Tie Domi pointed at Alfredsson after he did it, and Alfredsson's actions enraged Maple Leafs coach Pat Quinn.

"If you're going to try and show somebody up you better be ready to pay the price down the line," Quinn said.

Toronto's Nathan Perrott didn't like it, either.

"It was not very professional," Perrott said. "They were winning so I guess they had the luxury to do that."

Alfredsson regretted it.

"I was trying to make a joke, but it was bad timing," he said.

The following game the Leafs ran the Sens all night (the refs did call penalties though which the Sens did not take advantage of) and included Domi sucker punching (Domi has a habit of sucker punching players) Van Allen in his broken jaw. All because of a joke that offended the Leafs. With Quinn's many comments about Alfredsson this could easily lead to a situation like the Bertuzzi incident especially with an idiot like Domi on the team. This game inspired Muckler to pick up Ray, Simpson and de Vries and as was seen in the Flyers game I don't think anyone will be able to pick on the Sens anymore. However, this doesn't make Quinn's actions and commentary any less reprehensible and dangerous.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Just one example:

Toronto enforcer Tie Domi pointed at Alfredsson after he did it, and Alfredsson's actions enraged Maple Leafs coach Pat Quinn.

"If you're going to try and show somebody up you better be ready to pay the price down the line," Quinn said.

Yup, they're just going to have to arrest Quinn for this statement. I can remember the headlines the next day "Quinn Threatens Alfredsson's Life".

Actually its too bad nobody on the Leafs took this statement as seriously as you seem to be doing.

As a side note I think the old Sather-Muckler old boys network has a lot more to do with the Sens getting De Vries than Alfreddsson's taunting of the St. John's Maple Leafs.

[Grizzly]

A few of the comments by Clarke I agree with but some of them are pretty bad particularly the one about Neilson who was a good coach and person and not a nutcase. I guess if you are the type of person who favours a guy like Bobby Clarke over a guy like Roger Neilson your defence of OH should come as no surprise. And who is Clarke to criticize Yashin, Yashin is just greedy and selfish while Clarke is a real bastard. As I am unfortunately not 20 years old I did see Clarke play a lot of games with the Flyers on t.v. during the Broad Street Bullies days and don't have to rely on Hugh Adami for my info. He was a rough, dirty and vicious player who also was very skilled. I am not saying he would never stick up for himself and fight but the majority of the time his fighting was done by other players. Without guys like the Hammer he would never have been able to play his style of play. Sure every team would have liked to have him even though they all hated him just like Samuelsson a similar style of player although less talented. Doesn't mean you have to like him though and his behaviour as GM has confirmed his rather poor character.

[JayWay]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

My that Hugh Adami outgoogled the googlers on his sampling of "abrupt, mean and thoughtless remarks made by Clarke through the years". He did not cover sports at Carleton but now he is an expert googler. Right on.

Let's see. Is there one of those quotes that I don't agree with. I don't know enough about the domestic habits of miners in Flin Flon to comment on that one (I do know that the wife beating on the many forces bases I lived on went on behind closed doors, so it sounds about right). Daigle. Lindros. Yashin. The bible salesman. Pretty much echoes my opinions right across the board there. Thanks for the sanity check.

I think you just about hit the nail on the head.

They did the same with Cherry as well. The pitchforks went up and all of a sudden it was open-season for any journalist to frame even the most innocent of quotes in the context of fire and brimstone.

[Gordon]

I saw Clarke play at least a half dozen times live in Vancouver (circa 1970-1975) - and there were a few bench clearing brawls involved - and countless other times on the Tube. While he was no Kenny Linesman, far, far more often than not, the scrum resulting from the havoc created saw Clarke jawing away over the shoulder of Andre (Moose) Dupont or Dave (Hammer) Schultz or Bob (Hound Dog) Kelly or.... Clarke could handle himself when he had to but he preferred not to where he could help it. He was a tough player, but every Flyer knew Clarke was their bread and butter and stepped in to protect him. For some of them, protecting Clarke, McLeish, Leach and the younger Watson was their reason for playing in the NHL. And while Clarke was publically much reviled, there was not a GM in the NHL who wouln't have taken him for their team in a heart beat.

[Grasshopper]

Yup Grizz, you and Gordon have it right. Ed's a little off. Clarke probably could take care of himself in his own weight class, but he wasn't all that big so his weight class didn't include a lot of the guys who wanted a piece of him (including Bobby Orr in the 1973-74 Stanley Cup finals). As a result the Flyers (Saleski, Hound Dog, the Hammer, Moose, etc.) fought a lot of his battles. He did have a lot of stick prowess though. The way the Hammer told it in his book, Clarkie had a way of losing his balance and falling to the ice all the while cracking some poor soul with his stick.

I've never been a fan of that team..some of their players over the years (Bernie Parent, Mark Howe, and Mark Recchi come to mind), but never the team.

Blair

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

As I am unfortunately not 20 years old I did see Clarke play a lot of games with the Flyers on t.v. during the Broad Street Bullies days and don't have to rely on Hugh Adami for my info. He was a rough, dirty and vicious player who also was very skilled. I am not saying he would never stick up for himself and fight but the majority of the time his fighting was done by other players. Without guys like the Hammer he would never have been able to play his style of play. Sure every team would have liked to have him even though they all hated him just like Samuelsson a similar style of player although less talented. Doesn't mean you have to like him though and his behaviour as GM has confirmed his rather poor character.

[Gian-Luca]

I fortunately never had a chance to watch Clarke play live, I saw him quite often enough in my youth on tv and have an extensive enough videotape collection (providing recent clear memories, rather just vague memories I might have from 25 years ago) to know that he was largely a cheap-shot & run type of player. There's just far too much of it in the games I've seen recently, combined with my own & other people's memories, to suggest otherwise. His determination & heart on the ice were certainly admirable, and he was hard-working, a good leader for a pretty despicable, dirty, cheating team. And let's face it, he was one of perhaps 5 high-talented players on the Flyer team that won the Cups in the mid-70's - Clarke, MacLeish, Leach, Barber & especially Parent, and would have warranted protection for that reason alone (if not also for the fact that he had diabetes), allowing him to get away with murder on occasion. Everybody else, including their entire defense was either average or poor, making the team one of the least talented ever to win the Cup (and twice no less) and perhaps the only team to do so without at least one above average defencemean - and no, Moose Dupont nor Ed Van Impe don't cut it in that regard IMO.

I could never stand the guy at any time, partly because he was a leader for a Flyer team that beat my childhood Leaf heroes 3 straight times, but also for many of the reasons people are stating.

[canadiankick97]

Bertuzzi ends up gone for the whole season and the play-offs and maybe some of next season (if there is one) pending Mr. Bettman's decision in September.