Grizzly Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 After listening to his comments after the fight filled Sens-Flyers I have to admit that he is every bit as bad as Pat. It really bugs me these guys with teams who play rough and dirty who then complain if anyone gives them a bit of their own medicine. Do they have an exclusive licence on this style of play? Is noone allowed to fight fire with fire? Crawford is also a whiner but at least the Canucks aren't a rough and dirty team. Clarke is complaining that we sent our goons to fight their skill players Somik, Timander and Sharp. Well Neil who fought Somik has twice as many goals as Somik this year and in fact only one goal less than those three "skill" players combined. If Clarke has guys in his lineup who can neither play nor fight that is his own fault and problem. 4 goal Sharp told 19 goal Spezza before the faceoff that he was sent out to fight him which is why Spezza did the manly thing of fighting him as soon as the puck was dropped. This seems to be a far more blatant case of a mediocre player trying to take out a skill player but I don't hear the Sens complaining. The Sens including several highly skilled players fought, took their licks and didn't complain afterwards. Maybe what really bugs Clarke is that with the exception of Brashear who outpunched Ray, the Sens clearly won several fights and at worst the others were a draw. I and most other hockey fans would never have believed before the game that the Sens could outfight the Flyers. Clarke himself was one of the dirtiest players (and nastiest human beings) that the game has seen. He made a career out of playing rough and dirty and then hiding behind the Hammer and the other Philly goons. Looks like he is managing the same way. I just wish teams that play rough like the Leafs and Flyers do would just play and shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 I didn't see the game, just the highlights, but I see the scenario thusly: Brashear gets things going and we get a linebrawl. I believe the next shift (I'm not possitive it was the next shift or not) sees Neil go over the boards for Ottawa (along with a few other guys who can handle themselves). The game is in Philly. They have last change. If they're stupid enough to send Somik et al out, then boo-freakin-hoo if they get worked. Philly then called a T.O. and sent their tough guys out (I think Ott send out the toughest guys possible, they just didn't have many guys left) to go at Ott. It was retaliation, retaliation and retaliation. Nothing worth complaining about. Besides Philly won most of the fights, to cry about it afterwards is ridiculous. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly After listening to his comments after the fight filled Sens-Flyers I have to admit that he is every bit as bad as Pat. It really bugs me these guys with teams who play rough and dirty who then complain if anyone gives them a bit of their own medicine. Do they have an exclusive licence on this style of play? Is noone allowed to fight fire with fire? Crawford is also a whiner but at least the Canucks aren't a rough and dirty team. Clarke is complaining that we sent our goons to fight their skill players Somik, Timander and Sharp. Well Neil who fought Somik has twice as many goals as Somik this year and in fact only one goal less than those three "skill" players combined. If Clarke has guys in his lineup who can neither play nor fight that is his own fault and problem. 4 goal Sharp told 19 goal Spezza before the faceoff that he was sent out to fight him which is why Spezza did the manly thing of fighting him as soon as the puck was dropped. This seems to be a far more blatant case of a mediocre player trying to take out a skill player but I don't hear the Sens complaining. The Sens including several highly skilled players fought, took their licks and didn't complain afterwards. Maybe what really bugs Clarke is that with the exception of Brashear who outpunched Ray, the Sens clearly won several fights and at worst the others were a draw. I and most other hockey fans would never have believed before the game that the Sens could outfight the Flyers. Clarke himself was one of the dirtiest players (and nastiest human beings) that the game has seen. He made a career out of playing rough and dirty and then hiding behind the Hammer and the other Philly goons. Looks like he is managing the same way. I just wish teams that play rough like the Leafs and Flyers do would just play and shut up. Blah, blah, blah... Why is it that every fan of a Canadian team that is not the Leafs feels the need to take shots at the Leafs at every possible opportunity, even in situations that had nothing to do with Toronto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Rudi Blah, blah, blah... Why is it that every fan of a Canadian team that is not the Leafs feels the need to take shots at the Leafs at every possible opportunity, even in situations that had nothing to do with Toronto? Rudi, I think its called inferiority complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly After listening to his comments after the fight filled Sens-Flyers I have to admit that he is every bit as bad as Pat. It really bugs me these guys with teams who play rough and dirty who then complain if anyone gives them a bit of their own medicine. Do they have an exclusive licence on this style of play? Is noone allowed to fight fire with fire? Crawford is also a whiner but at least the Canucks aren't a rough and dirty team. Clarke is complaining that we sent our goons to fight their skill players Somik, Timander and Sharp. Well Neil who fought Somik has twice as many goals as Somik this year and in fact only one goal less than those three "skill" players combined. If Clarke has guys in his lineup who can neither play nor fight that is his own fault and problem. 4 goal Sharp told 19 goal Spezza before the faceoff that he was sent out to fight him which is why Spezza did the manly thing of fighting him as soon as the puck was dropped. This seems to be a far more blatant case of a mediocre player trying to take out a skill player but I don't hear the Sens complaining. The Sens including several highly skilled players fought, took their licks and didn't complain afterwards. Maybe what really bugs Clarke is that with the exception of Brashear who outpunched Ray, the Sens clearly won several fights and at worst the others were a draw. I and most other hockey fans would never have believed before the game that the Sens could outfight the Flyers. Clarke himself was one of the dirtiest players (and nastiest human beings) that the game has seen. He made a career out of playing rough and dirty and then hiding behind the Hammer and the other Philly goons. Looks like he is managing the same way. I just wish teams that play rough like the Leafs and Flyers do would just play and shut up. Hehe ... yeah, the days of the Sens being a soft team are over. Unfortunately for Clarke and the Flyers, they haven’t received this newsflash yet. So instead of playing like the Devils do against Ottawa (which is boring, but smart), they choose to play styles against Ottawa where they will come out second-best time and time again. Not only does Ottawa come out equal or better in the fights the Flyers start, they then proceed to roast Philly on the subsequent powerplay. Hopefully, these teams will draw each other again in the playoffs. The Sens could use a nice and short series to rest-up for real opponents like Detroit or Colorado. As much as I'd like to get revenge on the Leafs as well in the playoffs, I don't think they are good enuf to even get past Philly based on what I saw last year. Pity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 The Bobby Clarke bashing is in vogue again. I was going to let it fly but leave "the nastiest human beings" to those deserving please. I'm curious as to how do you play hockey with those funky picks at the toes??? They only came in white when I played and we weren't allowed to wear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted March 8, 2004 Author Share Posted March 8, 2004 A guy who fires a coach who took a leave of absence during a successful season because he has cancer when he has recovered and is ready to come back is not nasty? I could make a list of Clarke nastiness but I won't bother. I guess we can now add Clarke to Hargreaves as one of the guys you defend at all costs although you must be disappointed that he didn't betray his country by playing for England where I imagine he has some ancestors. Who will you defend next? The reason the Leafs are always mentioned is that they are the most frequent whiners. We are actually overdue for the next Quinn whine. If they stop whining they will stop being mentioned, I actually liked the Leafs until Quinn arrived on the scene. I am not saying teams shouldn't play rough if the NHL lets them get away with it. I am only saying they should stop whining when anyone plays a game in the same way they do. And Matthew if you had watched the game you would have seen that Ottawa won the majority of the fights. Brashear beat Ray and I would give Rechi the edge against Smolinski but Fisher killed the much bigger Handzus, Neil and Chara won their bouts and I would give the edge to Van Allen and Lalime in their fights. Most of the others that I can remember I would class as draws. This is probably what is upsetting Clarke and Hitchcock, they were expecting to beat up on the Sens and got their clocks cleaned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 The only decisive wins I saw were Brashear, Recchi, Sharp and Neil. I thought Esche won the goalie fight (which I did see all of), but it's up for interpretation. Everything else I saw on the highlights looked like a mild win either way (Fisher and Chara definitely won their fights). I certainly didn't think the Sens beat up on the Flyers. But again I just saw highlights, so maybe I missed some quality haymakers from the Sens. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadiankick97 Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 I remember the days when people from Ottawa would just come to laugh at the Sens. Great loyalty. Man, things have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly We are actually overdue for the next Quinn whine. If they stop whining they will stop being mentioned, I actually liked the Leafs until Quinn arrived on the scene. I really don't care about this discussion (EDIT: by which I mean it doesn't bother me) except it kinda bugs me that no one ever mentions that Quinn is also Canada's coach. Are you upset about that? Somehow when it comes to soccer everyone here loves all Canadians, but when it comes to hockey things are different. That's why last time one of these threads came up I pointed out that we need this sort of rivalry in Canadian club soccer. It's good to have some dislike for other Canadian clubs and Canadian players on these clubs! But that rarely seems to be the case, which is unfortunate because that's a big part of what makes sports exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I was pissed when they named Quinn coach the last time, as he was neither the best Canadian coach at the time, nor was he the best available Canadian coach of a Canadian NHL team. Thankfully, they put some of the other top coaches in the coaching staff with him. This time I don't mind so much as there is the handy excuse that he won us a gold medal (well, not really, but the Canadian players under his direction did) and there is no reason to mess with that formula. The best coaching move was shelving CuJo after that first match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 You totally echo my thoughts about Quinn and his coaching of the Canadian Olympic Team. I also used to be a Leaf fan (after the Oilers of course, but now they are dead last in my personal ranking of the Canadian teams), but really can't stand what Quinn has brought in terms of attitude to the team. Blair quote:Originally posted by jonovision I was pissed when they named Quinn coach the last time, as he was neither the best Canadian coach at the time, nor was he the best available Canadian coach of a Canadian NHL team. Thankfully, they put some of the other top coaches in the coaching staff with him. This time I don't mind so much as there is the handy excuse that he won us a gold medal (well, not really, but the Canadian players under his direction did) and there is no reason to mess with that formula. The best coaching move was shelving CuJo after that first match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly The reason the Leafs are always mentioned is that they are the most frequent whiners. We are actually overdue for the next Quinn whine. If they stop whining they will stop being mentioned Well, you just contradicted yourself. If we are "overdue" for the next Quinn whine, doesn't that mean that he's "stopped" whining, and therefore should not be mentioned in a rant about a game between Philadelphia and Ottawa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Grizzly, don't you find the fact that you consistently whine about other poeple whining to be somewhat, shall we say, ironic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Grizzly, don't you find the fact that you consistently whine about other poeple whining to be somewhat, shall we say, ironic? Are you whining about Grizzly's whining of Quinn's whining?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Nope, just making an observation. Besides, I like the fact that Quinn whines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWay Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 *Takes out Grizzley from behind and shoves his face into the ice* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by JayWay *Takes out Grizzley from behind and shoves his face into the ice* Yeah, it's too bad we don't have a class act like Todd Bertuzzi on the Leafs' roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadiankick97 Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Rudi Yeah, it's too bad we don't have a class act like Todd Bertuzzi on the Leafs' roster. That was absolutely terrible. I was waiting for Quinn to add in "He should have been suspended for life" during the trade deadline conference...the same words he used to describe Alfreddson's hit on Tucker. Poor Moore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 Now we see exactly what this type of attitude leads to in the Bertuzzi incident and this is what bugs me. The type of reckless, one-sided commentary provided by Crawford, Quinn and Clarke is very similar and has now led to a serious injury. In addition to the irrational complaining both Quinn and Clarke frequently resort to threatening comments about retribution and Crawford recently joined them to tragic results. As I said in my post I considered Vancouver a fairly clean team but certainly last night's game changes that. I think Bertuzzi should receive a life-long ban and that both Burke and Crawford should receive a one-year suspension for creating an attitude and atmosphere that greatly contributed to the resulting incident (and Vancouver is my second favourite team). First they unjustly complain about a hard but clean hit on one of their top players which did not lead to any serious injury. Nor was it Moore's fault that Naslund started to fall before he got hit. Then they constantly threaten retribution. Then during the game they already fight him once which should have been more than enough retribution but are not satisfied with that and have to attack him in a cowardly and criminal fashion. There was obvious premeditation and I hope that if Moore suffers serious limitations due to the injury that Bertuzzi sees jail time and is also sued for loss of earnings. People complain about the players not respecting each other but when the coaches and managers don't respect each other or the players why do we expect anything else from the players. The league has to start punishing some of the coaches for their reckless comments. I heard Muckler talking about the Sens-Philly game and he stated that he doesn't like such games but that it happens in hockey and everyone fought one on one and fairly and he didn't have a problem with it. No complaining or threatening unlike Clarke who has stated that they will be going after Ottawa's star players on April 2nd or like Quinn who threatened Alfredsson for the great sin of a mock stick throw. Most of the other managers in the league have the same good attitude but there are a few who bring the league into disrepute and I would include Quinn, Clarke and Crawford as among this category. It is also distressing that the majority of the media coverage seems to be about Bertuzzi, the penalty he will receive and how that will affect the Canucks as opposed to focusing on the important issue, the health of Moore. Hopefully he will be able to make a full recovery and not be permanently damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Since this post has led down to the Bertuzzi incident, I want to add my two cents... I'm sick and tired of hearing that what happened on Monday night to Steve Moore was 'unfortunate.' That's total garbage, it wasn't unfortunate, it should have never happened. I listened to Brain Burke's comments about the incident, and he didn't even come close to apologizing for what happened. Todd Bertuzzi avoided the media all day, and didn't seem apologetic either. There's no room in any sport to allow events like this to happen. To say that its part of the game is totally wrong. What Todd Bertuzzi did was disgusting, and acts like that don't belong in any sport, and until the NHL bans fighting like all other sports, acts like this will continue to go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Rudi Yeah, it's too bad we don't have a class act like Todd Bertuzzi on the Leafs' roster. I didn't see the Bertuzzi incident, but was it anything like what Domi did to Ulf Samuelsson in the 1995/96 season??? Or was it more of a Darcy Tucker-like cheapshot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanKeay Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 If u stop fighting in the NHL you are going to get more cheap shots, fighting keeps them from being cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Sean, thats flawed logic, there's fighting in the NHL now, and Betuzzi still managed to act like a moron and do what he did (the instigator rule is only a bad excuse, fighting still happens) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by SeanKeay If u stop fighting in the NHL you are going to get more cheap shots, fighting keeps them from being cheap. meh... I never really bought-in to that Don Cherryish theory. Having 2 or 3 guys on each team do all the fighting, doesn't help the other 22 players release any of their anger. IF anything, it just increases it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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