Who is your Starting 11? (Part 1)

[Guest Ed]

Oh but oh so sadly, yes, Mr. Loud Mouth Soup. Perhaps the people pushing for Lars in net have actually seen Pat Onstad in net for Canada in WCQ games. Just a thought.

Until Lars loses the spot, I cannot see anybody else starting.

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

I really need to ask a great deal of you this question...

WHY, oh why, do we think Lars is the man? He's barely played for Spurs, first team or Reserves.

Onstad, on the other hand, is coming off a championship and MVP season with San Jose and played almost every game for them. Sure, there's a difference in the Prem and MLS, but that's not applicable here, since Lars hasn't been playing.

I remain utterly confused about what Lars has done that justifies him being picked ahead of Onstad.

Hell, Sutton has played more than Lars in the A-League! Kenny played more in Sweden!

You can't convince me that Lars deserves it. Yes, he is good, but does his lack of play compared to regular starts for all the other keepers mentioned above give him some Canadian-only right to No 1?

Sadly, no.

I asked the same question on this board a couple of months ago, and redhat, sharing a feeling held by many voyageurs, gave the following cogent answer:

"Onstad will get the nod as he played more, unlike Lars. Most people

will, unfortunately, remember 2 things: (1) Lars' spectacular,

rapid fire saves vs. the US in GC2002; and (2) Onstad letting in

the 2 goals vs. T&T in WCQ 2000 (Edmonton).

Onstad deserves better, but Lars has also a lot of promise."

http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1937

This was of great insight to me, as I was overseas in 2000-2002, and mainly unaware of those matches. It seems that Voyageurs, like Elephants, never forget.

[drewsome]

OK Lars isn't starting in the EPL, but he does have a history of success. Gold Cup comes to mind.

[loyola]

We need a couple of friendly to set our goalkeeping situation straight.

I'm not a big Lars fan, like redhat said people will remember the 2002 GC semi where Lars played very well, out of his mind I must say. But why don't people remember the quarter game against Martinique where Lars played an horrible game, he almost blew up the game when he mishandled an easy high ball. We have the choice to remember what we want from that tournament but I prefer to remember both of those games, and I don't know what to think of him. BTW, his current situation with Spurs where he's not seeing playing time must change.

Yes he has a couple of great performances for us, but he has some average showing too.

I would like to see Sutton against good opposition, I think he could be our # 1. The good thing with Sutton is that he'll be in the middle of his season in the A-League when WCQ will begin in June.

Onstad, MLS keeper of the year and hasn't been very good for Canada....

So like I said, we need some friendlies to set this situation because we need some outstanding goalkeeping if we want to make it to the WC.

[Cheeta]

Onstad's age is working against him. In a year he started off quite poorly he did finish very strong, proving critics like me wrong.

Still dosen't change the age issue. I think it very unlikely Pat can go many more months yet at top flight football, or MLS, or whatever.

Yallop's trip to Europe with a supposedly open eye could see some changes in net. Guess we'll see.

[David C.]

Craig Forrest wasn't starting in the EPL and people thought he was God. Why is Lars any different?

"EPL back-up" is still quite an accomplishment, the coaching level is great and reserve games (over a 10 month season) must offer some level of game experience.

[loyola]

I forgot about Kenny, I think it is a shame that he hasn't seen action in at least one game in October/November when we played 3 very good team. The guy is playing in the Premier league in Sweeden and was named player of the year for his club. And like Sutton and Onstad, Kenny is playing regularly for his club.

[BC supporter]

I am genuinely curious why some people on this board are so high on Mike Klukowski.

I mean, I'm hopeful he'll develop into a top-notch pro and be a solid contributor to the national side. I liked the looks of him the one time I saw him play in Victoria back in 2001.

But given that he's played all of 30 minutes for the senior team, and he's on a mid-table club in a European league that's rarely televised here, what is it that not only causes people to automatically put him on the senior team, but in some cases to even slot him into the "dream" starting 11? Just wondering.

[David C.]

re: Mike Kuklowski

Kuklowski is having just as good (if not better) of a season than Jazic is, despite playing in a stronger league. He also played very well in his team's UEFA cup games, when Aguiar sat on the bench and was rumoured to possibly move to bigger club, during the series (club's fan forum).

Although currently playing as a defender, he was trained as a midfielder in France (Lille) and has a very good touch on the ball, distribution skills and on-field vision. He was easily our best player, when the rest of the team went South, in the U-20 Championships.

I wonder why people are so high on Jazic.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

I really need to ask a great deal of you this question...

WHY, oh why, do we think Lars is the man? He's barely played for Spurs, first team or Reserves.

Onstad, on the other hand, is coming off a championship and MVP season with San Jose and played almost every game for them. Sure, there's a difference in the Prem and MLS, but that's not applicable here, since Lars hasn't been playing.

We've seen Lars play in the Gold Cup and has come up big on most occasions. Especially vs. the US in Gold Cup'02, where he faced

a rapid-fire onslaught and none went in, until PKs. He played

exceptionally well against Costa Rica (despite injury), and against

Finland (IMO).

Onstad is a very good keeper (since his Fury days ...), but no one

in this board would ever forget his performance vs. T&T in WCQ.

He looked pretty shaky and somewhat not composed, letting in the

Angus Eve shot, which eventually deflated the team. To be fair,

he wasn't to blame for the loss as it was really a lack of scoring

touches (eh Carlo?). Also Onstad was blamed by Holger for letting in the late Estonia goal in a friendly, but the fact he travelled 36 hours from San Jose was not really considered.

I'm quite comfortable with either on net, but we should consider

that Lars can get only better and he does come up BIG. Playing

for an EPL reserve team is not like playing Calgary PDL.

We need to also take a close look at Kenny Stamatopoulos, Simon Rayner, Sutton, Alim Karim, and Thunder Dan, as injuries WILL happen

towards Germany '06 ... Remember when Craig Forrest became unavailable just before WCQ ? Onstad had to fill the role ...

[Gordon]

Re: Hirschfeld - I gave him the advantage over Onstadt simply on shot stopping ability. Our defence has been giving up glorious opportunities recently and I think we need a shot stopper to pull a save out of his a$$ every now and then. Onstadt is technically a better keeper, but not the shot stopper Lars is. Every keeper gives up lousy goals every now and then, so T & T isn't factoring into my thinking. Haven't seen Stamatopolous nor Sutton so its a two keeper race for me.

Re: Klukowski - I like his skills, but think he may be a bit slow for outside back. I think he might be the answer for the who will partner DeVos question. I do not know how well he defends, but if he has learned to play left back - and he is a standout in his league at that position by accounts - then why not Centreback - he has some height and some ball skills. As I said in my selection - he would be a bit of a gamble and so lets see it in a friendly.

Generally, having watched Stalterin play left back at Bremen, he is better than Jazic by some measure. Nsaliwa looked good against Germany and closer to Stalteri's level than anyone on the left (assuming Brennan as left mid). If we are so deep in the midfield but questionable on the back line, why not shift some middies who have shown they have the goods. With Hume and Hutchinson coming on, plus Deguzman, Aguiar (possibly), Brennan and the back-up cast of Imhoff, Bent, Bircham and company, why not have to backs who can overlap and run all day in Stalteri and Nsaliwa? Find DeVos a skilful partner (perhaps Klukowski, perhaps Hutchinson) and we have a rather nice first choice backline. Perhaps rumours of Menezes' demise are exagerated in which case he is the answer. I'd even go 3-5-2 if no one works out a a partner for DeVos. I'd rather not have McKenna and/or Reda beside DeVos simply because they are similar type players and, Big Kevin gves us some options up top. He may look awkward doing it, but the big fella just scores goals, and seems to cause fits to defenders due to his size and strength.

I want to see Canada playing an attacking possession style, so I am advocating playing the guys who can handle the ball and have the speed and ambition to get forward and get to some through balls. Truth is, my hearts gets thumping just a little bit faster imagining Hume running at a defence with Nsaliwa overlapping on the outside, Radzinski and DeRosario running into space and DeGuzman lurking in the middle. The last Canadian team with that much speed won relay gold in Atlanta.

[Daniel]

First things first:

ONSTAD!!!! Not Onstadt!!!

Moving on:

For that "missing" central defender, one of the Impact's "big four" will be in season and might challenge for that position. Gervais and Pizzolito come to mind, but Braz and Abraham Francois could cause a surprise depending on their seasons.

[Gordon]

Onstadt! Onstadt! Onstadt![}][}] Nyah! Nyah!

Alright, Onstad then.

[matthew]

I see that Angus Eve goal in my sleep. In the stadium you never felt any danger, he was so far out it seemed like the start of a buildup and then bam . . . World Cup hopes over after dominating the first 35-40 mins. Onstad played so well in 1999-2000 as well. I was high on him.

I just think Lars is younger, has far more potential and I just feel more comfortable with him in goal.

As for Klukowski, he seems a nice possibility at the tricky leftback spot. I don't buy him as the saviour to pair with DeVos. That being said I've seen Jazic play leftback and though he wasn't spectacular he didn't make many mistakes and was better than who we've been using. So I give Jazic a slight nod there. I put him in the back and Brennan in the midfield because that's where Brennan plays for his club.

Also a lot of people seem to have 11s with defenders who aren't exactly defensive standouts. Stalteri, Brennan, Klukowski, etc. They're all converted mids and frankly with our backline problems I don't mind having some mids who can play some defence in the midfield and some defenders who may not be Roberto Carlos out there, but can hopefully stem the tide a little.

cheers,

matthew

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by matthew

Also a lot of people seem to have 11s with defenders who aren't exactly defensive standouts. Stalteri, Brennan, Klukowski, etc. They're all converted mids...

cheers,

matthew

Klukowski is a left back and has been for his entire pro career (admittedly only two seasons). Brennan was a defender and has dressed as a midfielder for approximately 6 games with his current club side, this year. Other than that he was a left back at Nottingham. Canada "converted" him to mid. Stalteri is a converted striker, who was converted to midfield, who has now been converted to defender. Since his regular starting position is now as a fullback with his club, I think it fair to drop the "converted" anything title. Tam Nsaliwa, it would be fair to call him a converted midfielder, as I don't believe he has played much right back for his club sides. But he has played some wingback. Are they weak defensively? I don't really think so. At least not compared to the alternatives. And they are certainly good enough to compete at those positions in CONCACAF IMO.

[matthew]

Well where did Brennan play in his youth? I don't know, but I always thought he was a mid. Frankly his attacking ability and his pace are his strengths. He even played as a striker for the Olympic team in 2000 (ill advised as that was). From what I've read and what I've seen his defence with Forest wasn't exactly stellar. He's capable of tracking back and helping out, but isn't an out-and-out back in my mind.

I don't want to criticize Stalteri, because he's our best player, but he was awful in the first half against Finland. The second half he got forward well, but he didn't have to defend. He's looked solid in the back for Bremen, but defensively, he's been one of the worst defenders we've used lately. He's also been the best at going forward (understandably), but as a team that has struggled on the back end, I'm thinking safety first in the back.

I agree Klukowski is definitely an option in the bac, I've just never seen him play there. I don't really get the central defence argument though. Maybe he can. maybe he can't but I don't want us to have someone playing out of position or someone without any experience in the heart of our defence.

cheers,

matthew

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by matthew

Well where did Brennan play in his youth? I don't know, but I always thought he was a mid. Frankly his attacking ability and his pace are his strengths. He even played as a striker for the Olympic team in 2000 (ill advised as that was). From what I've read and what I've seen his defence with Forest wasn't exactly stellar. He's capable of tracking back and helping out, but isn't an out-and-out back in my mind.

I don't want to criticize Stalteri, because he's our best player, but he was awful in the first half against Finland. The second half he got forward well, but he didn't have to defend. He's looked solid in the back for Bremen, but defensively, he's been one of the worst defenders we've used lately. He's also been the best at going forward (understandably), but as a team that has struggled on the back end, I'm thinking safety first in the back.

I agree Klukowski is definitely an option in the bac, I've just never seen him play there. I don't really get the central defence argument though. Maybe he can. maybe he can't but I don't want us to have someone playing out of position or someone without any experience in the heart of our defence.

cheers,

matthew

I don't know where Brennan played as a youth. He definitely is better suited to midfield than back in my opinion as well. But I don't think anyone who lines him up their over Hastings or Jazic is off his/her rocker.

As for Stalteri, I am one who likes him in the back but this is based mainly on his play at Bremen. I've seen him 3 or 4 time this year at left back and he does well enough there. Certainly better than I've seen from Hastings or Jazic. Perhaps the latter has more he can bring to the show. But for me Stalteri is a better option. I see Deisel as our best option at both outside back positions, right mid and defensive mid. Defensive mid would be my preferred spot all else being equal. But, I look at the roster and see Nsaliwa and I think that he plays right back better than Jazic plays left so I want him on the field. I look at Hume and/or Bent, and I think either would do the right mid better than Jazic plays left back, so I want them on the field (Hume first choice based on what he can do to turn a game). So in the end, it comes down to whether I prefer Jazic or Aguiar on the field. I've seen nothing of Aguiar that I can recall. But many on the board, especially Jeffrey (who sees a bit of him), seem high on him. So, Stalteri goes to left back.

Now, as to why I think Klukowski should have a look at Centre half. First of all, he did play there with his team in France. So it is not totally out of left field. I like his skills with the ball, I like his apparent ability to read the play - at least against U-20 players. It would be an experiment. But I do think that we need a liitle more style to go with DeVos's "substance". McKenna seems a very similar player to DeVos and I don't think he handles the ball as well as I would want back there, especially if Canada is playing a more positive style. I also think he is a bit slow and don't think we can really afford to go with two Big strong, but slow and modestly skilled on the ball centre backs. Plus, I think McKenna gives us options off the bench up front, and could fill in for DeVos when he is not therr. Haven't seen much of Reda. But what I have seen makes me think of McKenna and DeVos. A back line anchored by Devos and McKenna/Reda would be alright, and the best option if we are bunkering. But if we are playing a more positive side, then we need someone more like Menezes. Perhaps this is Klukowski. As I said, it is an experiment. He may not be the answer. If Menezes still can cut it, then he would be my first choice.

It is essentially what Mitchell did with Hutchinson. But I think Hutchinson has more "game" than Klukowski so I'd rather see him play as a midfielder. I just think we need a backline that is comfortable on the ball if we are to get away from the long ball. And if we keep 50% possession rather than the 30-35 against the better sides that seems to the norm, then we will se an improvement in our defence in my opinion.

[Massive Attack]

Jim Brennan played youth for Newmarket S.C and the Woodbridge Strikers. I don't know at what age he went to Europe though. Other Woodbridge Strikers alumni include Atiba Hutchinson, Julian Ucello and Adrian Cann.

[Canuck Oranje]

Between Newmarket and Woodbridge, Brennan played U-15 or U16 for Bradford (outside of Newmarket). I am almost certain he was a midfielder..

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by David C.

re: Mike Kuklowski

Kuklowski is having just as good (if not better) of a season than Jazic is, despite playing in a stronger league. He also played very well in his team's UEFA cup games, when Aguiar sat on the bench and was rumoured to possibly move to bigger club, during the series (club's fan forum).

Where do people get their opinions on league comparisons for leagues that are not shown on Canadian tv. I have watched both Belgian and Austrian league games and they are very similar in level, both mid level Euro leagues comparable to the 2nd Bundesliga. The top couple of Belgian teams are probably stronger than the top couple of Austrian teams but the weaker Belgian teams are also weaker than their lower table Austrian compatriots. The Austrian league is certainly much more balanced in level of play. Jazic, however, plays for a top Austrian club while Klukowski plays for a lower mid-table Belgian club. I don't think many people on this board have seen either play a league game and we have had only one recent televised game with Jazic where he was decent despite having Hastings playing as mid on his side. Klukowski we have mostly seen playing with under age national teams. Obviously both should be called and judged on their performance in friendlies.

[Daniel]

I can't wait until we finally get the Hutchinson-Deguzman tandem leading our midfield...

[Canuck Oranje]

Regarding Fullbacks, most good midfielders should be able to adequately fill in at fullback if they have good speed. I am sure there are many cases of good midfielders at club level playing fullback on the national team.

More importantly, the biggest issue with Canadian Defenders in the history of Canadian soccer has not been their ability to defend. It has been their inability to contribute to the attack. Most quality teams at club level and national team level have Defenders that can be a threat in attack and in many cases, actually organize the offence.

Personally, I like the potential combination on the right side of Nsaliwa and Stalteri. Both have played right back and both have played the right midfield position. I have no idea how the two would mesh but I think we need to see that.

I would say the same about Jazic and Brennan on the left.

As for the centre of the defence, putting McKenna, DeVos and Aguiar (defensive midfield) would create problems for us because of lack of speed and questionable offensive ability. It is for this reason that I think we need to try someone with a little more speed and that is my reason for suggesting to try Klukowski at try. I suspect Hutchinson may end up being our version of Rijkaard (Midfielder at club playing central defence for the National team) because he could give us some go offensive skill at the back without giving up much in defence.

In central midfield. the combination of Aguiar and DeGuzman would be good because Aguiar could be a hard tackling defensive midfielder and DeGuzman can take a more offensive role.

Forwards.. Take your pick to be with Radzinski. With the attacking defence and midfield, they should get lots of action.

Personally, I would rather see us attack and win 4-3 in a friendly than win 1-0 and if we lose the odd game 4-3 so be it..

[Loud Mouth Soup]

So then. Let's see if I have this straight.

Lars is great based on his flurry of saves v. the US and one great tournamant a couple of years ago, Onstad is bad because of the T&T match?

Narrow thinking, guys.

And to the person who mentioned the Craig Forrest situation-he was getting regular reserve stars for West Ham, and a Prem match once in a while. Lars barely gets either.

I just can't justify playing him ahead of Pat, Kenny or Sutton at this point. It shouldn't be his position to lose. It should be for him to win, and he's not getting the chance to prove it, reserve or first team. Maybe he is now (having check the Spurs reserves lately), but that's only a recent change to his situation.

And the person who mention Lars' "history of success". Well, it's just that. History. Further back than the 'history' of San Jose's last MLS championship. And let's not forget who coached Pat during that season, shall we?

And at 35, I'd say he still has a few years left in him.

[Guest Ed]

The game isn't played on paper. To each his own. To call people who have seen both keepers play and have come to an opinion "narrow minded" is a bit asinine isn't it. Onstad's shot stopping ability didn't magically mushroom in the sunny San Jose climate. I think one has to look at his defence as it plays in his league. Needless to say, I think Canada needs an A - NUMBER 1 shot stopper with its porous defence. When Lars LOSES a game for us, come again.

I am afraid we will see Onstad in net with Yallop's familiarity with him, along with a few dinosaurs in the outfield. C'est la vie. I am ready to be pleasantly surprised but not optimistic.

[drewsome]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

Onstad's age is working against him. In a year he started off quite poorly he did finish very strong, proving critics like me wrong.

Still dosen't change the age issue. I think it very unlikely Pat can go many more months yet at top flight football, or MLS, or whatever.

Yallop's trip to Europe with a supposedly open eye could see some changes in net. Guess we'll see.

How old is Onstad? I keep hearing that keepers often mature later.