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The Atiba Situation


Dandal

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Today's news:

Öster's manager confirmed that he did allow Atiba to do a 30 minute appearence in a training match with a russian team during his visit in Turkey. He won't say which team, but according to swedish tabloid Aftonbladet at least Torpedo Moscow, FC Saturn och Spartak Moscow is in Turkey now. Still according to Aftonbladet Öster and the russian club are close to a deal and the sum mentioned is in excess of US$ 1 M.

Addendum:

Öster's chairman revealed to the local newspaper that the club is FC Saturn from Moscow. He is optimistic on closing the deal today. The same sum (approx US$ 1 M) is mentioned here, but not by tha chairman.

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FC Saturn seems to be a fairly ambitious club in Russia. They even have an english portion to their website.

http://www.saturn-fc.ru/engnews.shtml

And a bunch of new argentinian and brazilian signings as well as the current Russian national team captain.

Saturn signings underline ambition

Ambitious FC Saturn Moskovskaya Oblast have signed three South American players to strengthen their squad ahead of the 2004 season.

Argentinian pair

Saturn, who finished seventh in the Russian Premier-Liga last year, have snapped up the Argentinian defensive midfield pair of Javier Omar Delgado and Pablo Horacio Guinazu, as well as Brazilian defender Jean. Arriving from Sao Paulo FC, Jean links up with compatriots Jeder and Regis in the Saturn defence and also the newly signed Russia captain Viktor Onopko. Delgado joins from CA Colon de Santa Fe and Guinazu from CA Newell's Old Boys.

Training camp

The new trio, all contracted until December 2006, join 15 other players in Saturn's pre-season training camp. This follows the transfer-listing of several squad members by coach Oleg Romantsev. Those set to leave include striker Serghey Rogaciov and goalkeeper Valeri Chizhov.

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Guest Can. in UK

Saturn seem to have spent quite a bit of money in the off-season. Along with the South Ammerican players, they have brought in Onopko (who was linked to a couple of English clubs - Everton, Fullham I think), who is the Russian national team's captain, and the Czech Republic's back-up goalkeeper.

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I think russian football suffers with football fans in general from ignorance and possibly prejudice. There has been a large inflow of money into russian football the last years and you will find an increasing number of high quality players there. The russian league is now good. For example champions Lokomotiv from Moscow knocked out Inter from Champion's League and Spartak is in the third round of the UEFA Cup. Saturn has a league position about the same as Udinese - never title contenders but after a really good season you might play Europe. But yeah, the TV-coverage will suck.

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I think russian football suffers with football fans in general from ignorance and possibly prejudice. There has been a large inflow of money into russian football the last years and you will find an increasing number of high quality players there. The russian league is now good. For example champions Lokomotiv from Moscow knocked out Inter from Champion's League and Spartak is in the third round of the UEFA Cup. Saturn has a league position about the same as Udinese - never title contenders but after a really good season you might play Europe. But yeah, the TV-coverage will suck.

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The move sounds good to me (assuming the deal is closed) - not Udinese, as one had hoped (Man City & Southampton were always long shots due to the UK Work permit problems), but playing time than he would at Udinese. Atiba's only 20, if he keeps his current upward trajectory we shall see him in one of the big four leagues one day.

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oh man, thats beautiful blair!

But i'm sorry the whole russian league doesnt appeal to me, even if he is going to go play at Udinese and be a sub atleast he can work his way on the squad. Where is not many people really look at the russian league to buy players. Especially from FC Saturn!

Does anyone know if the lynx get anything from this transfer fee?

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quote:Originally posted by Mimglow

Man, what a drop from the hopes we had. Manchester City or Udinese it is not. :(

The best we could have hoped for from Udinese ( for atiba) would have be a spot on one of their youth teams. That would have been a fantastic accomplishment and what I would have prefferred to see. A player of his talent might have been ready for a jump to the first club after maybe a year or two. No where was it ever mentioned that the interest from Udinese was for first play and that should ahve been obvigious by the fact that there was so little written up on this story. The same could be said for Man city. In fact Craig Forrest alluded to this as well.

Realistically, there is no way that we can expect any player to go from the A-league or a swedish or or Norwegian league and right into the first team of a serie A club. Try this. If you have a tape of an A-league game and a CL, Serie A, or EPL game, try to watch them at the same time or right after each other. The difference should be very evident to even the casual observer. Top Swedish players like Zlatan Ibrahimovich(sp) go to continental Europe to develop at club like Ajax. Therefore, there is no evidence that playing in Scandinavia ever prepares for one for that level of play. Also there is no evidence that playing in these parts is more competitive than the a-league. I saw Pozniak play for the Lynx and, to be honnest, I never thought of him, talentwise, as a player destined for superstardom. Unlike Atiba who really stood out. So far, it would appear that Scandinavia only offers player a better chance to be seen. and thats it.

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There is an alternative story on Udinese's interest in Atiba - he was brought down mainly to put pressure on the teams star midfielder Pizarro. They've had lengthy and sometimes heated arguments over a new contract and this was the clubs way of saying "You're not the only midfielder around - you can be replaced". When Pizarro finally signed last week Udinese's interest in Atiba soon cooled off. There are some facts to support such an interpretation of the events. For one, reports says that the italians didn't get out of their way to make him feel welcome and comfortable.

I'm fairly convinced that both the norwegian and swedish leagues are way better than the A-league. I've counted to close to a dozen former A-leaguers in Sweden the past season and apart from Atiba the only one who made a real impression with his team was Leighton O'Brien. In a relegation zone team in the 1st division. And he was A-league MVP 2002.

Apart from that, there are several examples of swedish players going directly to first team play in EPL and Serie A, even if either Bundesliga or the dutch Eeredivisie usually is the first stop. I shall not even try to mention them all, but just for the sake of argument Fredrik Ljungberg moved directly from Sweden to EPL first team action when he was 21.

Atiba isn't that good. Yet. He is very talented and he had a great season, but he didn't even get an honorary mention in any of the All-Star teams that TV-shows, papers and magazines put out after the end of the season. Signing him away on a $1 M deal is more than I've seen any fan even hoping for.

That said, and not knowing where Atiba finally will end up, I'm certain the russian league will prove a greater challenge than the swedish and thus help better in his development. Living in Russia is another thing. I don't know what I would think about that.

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Free Kick i think you hit right on the button its is very diffucult to break the seria A or for that matter seria B or premier team 1 or 2 , however you are very correct that its takes a very young age to prepare and break the diffuclty in making thes leagues. Their way of preperation is very different then most other clubs or Countries I have seen my self. The odds of any Canadian making a premier 1 or 2 or Seria a or B and other leauges are enourmous and not in favour of the player and the odds are are better making a NHL team or Baseball team. Any occomplishment by Atiba will be a good one and open doors for others im sure and I mentioned before there is still Modena who is on Atiba's list of teams dont be surprised if something should happen there.

However it would be interesting to see what happens with the players who are much younger than Atiba's 20 or 21 yrs. The age of 15 to let say 18 years of age who are currently in the youth system in europe or the UK? Who are they and what age? I know of two Fabio Panetta for a Rome team age 18 Divison D in Italy and Julian Uccello age 17 AC Milan Juniores? Any others you know of playing.

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I spent the last summer in Yaroslavl where Shinnik plays in the Russian Championat and saw a lot of games both live and on t.v. I also lived in Germany for 8 years (My nick on the old forum was Canadian in Leipzig which I had to change when I returned to Canada) so I saw a lot of European soccer with which I can compare the Russian league. Many of the posts here that state disappointment with this development are really only based on ignorance of this league.

I would put the level of the Russian league at between the 1st and 2nd leagues of the big four. By this I mean the 5-6 best teams could play in the first divisions of any of the top four leagues and the other teams would be strong teams in the respective second division. I would rank the Russian league as the 6th best in Europe after France. The typical league ranking system is completely distorted as it only takes the top European Cup playing teams into consideration. This ignores the fact that most European leagues (i.e Belgium, Holland, Scotland, Czech) consist of 2 or 3 good teams that play vastly inferior opponents. The Russian league like the French league is well balanced with a couple of good teams consistently having success in Europe (Lok Moscow is still alive in the Champions League) but also having strong competition throughout the league. The style of play in Russia is quite offensive and technical oriented. Their weakness is defence, teams often lose 3-2 after leading 2-0 and high scores are common. The games are generally much more exciting than those I was watching in Germany with a lot of individual flair but less of the effective and boring defensive team tactics of Germany and Italy. There are a large number of highly skilled foreign players in the league but as very few of these players are from western Europe or North America we never hear about them unless they leave the league and make a name for themselves in one of the big four leagues. There are very many African, Eastern European and South American players including national team representatives. With all respect to the Scandanavian leagues, the Russian league is a big step up from the Swedish league and if Hutchison excels there he will be noticed very quickly by the big four.

As far as the team goes, Saturn-Ren TV is a not a traditional powerhouse in Russian soccer but has advanced very rapidly. They are sponsored by one of the national t.v. stations hence the name and seem to have a lot of money backing them. Sponsorship money seems to be the driving force behind Russian soccer as there are 7 Moscow teams (including Saturn) who play to small crowds often under 10 000 in huge Moscow stadiums. Teams in other cities such as Yaroslavl play to 20 000 plus crowds but do not have near the funding of the Moscow teams. Even St. Petersburg which like Moscow a very large city only has one team in Championat. This is because almost all of Russia's business is centered in Moscow. The overabundance of Moscow teams is a bad thing for the league as there is at least one Moscow derby every week and this is thus not very interesting. Saturn, however, is not from the city of Moscow but the Moscow region and thus plays in a small city (under 100 000 people) near Moscow in a nice small stadium. This stadium is also full for their games unlike the games of the Moscow teams (their average attendance is higher than that of any of the Moscow city teams). I never saw them live but watched quite a few of their games on tv. The team is very strong and maybe the best balanced team in the league by which I mean they played as a team and didn't have a lot of superstars but also few weaknesses. They were in second place in the league until the end of the season when they tanked it and lost 5 of their last six games and wound up in seventh. They seem to be an ambitious club and I wouldn't be surprised to see them challenge for the league title and/or Champion's League play this year.

As far as Hutchinson's chances, I think they are much better than at Uedinese. First of all good defensive players are the biggest need in Russian soccer. The Russian coaching system is excellent and very good at developing players. There is neither the intense politics nor pressure in clubs such as that in the Italian league which might prevent clubs taking a chance on playing a young, unproven Canadian. Thus I think he will have a much better chance of actually playing at a high level rather than only training and getting occasional substitution opportunities. If he excels he will be noticed and will become a starter in one of the big four leagues just as quickly or possibly quicker than if he was at Uedinese and this will be better for his long term development (for example, I think this would have been a much better route to take for Hischfeld than becoming a practice goalie for Spurs for the last two seasons). Plus if he does well this may open another door to Canadian players like Stalteri and DeGuzman have in Germany and Reda and Poz have in Scandanavia. With his salary at Russian prices he will live like a king there. I hope to be in Yaroslavl this summer and may get to see some of his matches (although I am disappointed he is not signing with Shinnik :-) ). Incidently, prices to attend Shinnik games are between $2-$4 CDN and a 1.5 litre plastic bottle of beer costs about $1.50.

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Could Artibo who played in the 2nd half against Den Haag possibly be Atibo? This player is not listed on the team's roster and did not play in their first friendly in which they defeated Ukrainian team Krivoy Rog 2-0.

Saturn wins again | Friday, 16th January 2003

Yesterday Moscow region club played second friendly match during pre-season training. Saturn won ADO Den Haag 2-0. Pablo Horacio Guiñazú scored the first goal, another one came from leading midfielder Pyotr Bystrov.

Saturn - ADO Den Haag Holland - 2-0

Saturn: 1st time - Kinský, Lengyel, Onopko, Geder, Malay, Guiñazú, Delgado, Bystrov, Bazayev, Pavlovich, Medvedev; 2nd time - Gerus, Bodnar, Alexander, Minibayev, Mor, Artibo, Flavio Souza, Pusineri, Maletic. Llumnica, Shirko.

Goals: 13', Guiñazú (1-0). 31', Bystrov (2-0).

15th January. Kadrie. Turkey.

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Grizzly, you're absolutely correct about my disappointment coming down to ignorance. I know nothing about Russian football. Thank you very much for that insightful piece you wrote, I'm now that much more informed about the game in Moscow.

There is still disappointment that we won't get to see Atiba on tv, but if going to Russia helps him develop, all the better.

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And, NO, Artibo is NOT a good nickname for Atiba, for those of you so inclined.

But, as the other two alluded to, great job Grizzly on enlightening the blind (myself included) about the world of Russian soccer.

Blair

quote:Originally posted by Dandal

Yes, according to Öster's website this is the match where he played 30 minutes.

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Guest Jeffery S.

Yes, very interesting post Grizzly.

Two things. One is that Atiba is doing a sort of favour to Osters by agreeing to them selling him now. Next year they couldn't get anything for him, he'd go for free. Going for free usually means that you can ask for more salary, a better contract, and you choose clubs on that basis. So Atiba being open to ensuring Osters gets a good deal is at least forthcoming on his part.

I do not ignore the fact that he probably does not want to play 2nd tier Sweden this year, and he wants to make the move now when the interest is higher.

The second point is salary. Atiba would only consider going to the club that pays most to Östers if that same club could at least match salary offers put out by other clubs interested. Or else offer other benefits, like high profile play. Another factor that could be interesting for him is to be able to play the Olympic qualifiers, which with a Russian club would be possible (as with a Swedish club). Mind you in either case he'd lose club matches in the summer if we were to qualify for the Olympics. But then he'd only be asking for those weeks off, and not weeks right now (which would happen if he signed for a German or Portuguese club).

All this said, and for all that's been said about Russian playing level (I agree it is pretty good), I don't know if it really has become the feeder league it should be if it is as good as other nations in Europe 2nd tier. I think that Atiba moving to a stronger club in Sweden would be better in fact, as it is a clear jumping off point for Germany or even England. The worry is that in Russia he could be sort of buried away without anyone paying great attention to his development.

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quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

I think that Atiba moving to a stronger club in Sweden would be better in fact, as it is a clear jumping off point for Germany or even England. The worry is that in Russia he could be sort of buried away without anyone paying great attention to his development.

Great point Jeffrey, my thoughts exactly.

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