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Callies possibly disqualified?


IDO

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I was just on the Sokol website and it was posted that there is an investigation underway by the Quebec soccer federation. It seems (according to Sokol's website) that Alberta (Callies) were possibly playing an ineligible player. Does anyone have any info on this?

Is there any precedent for disqualiyfing the champion? Would Sokol then meet QB at a later date to determine the champion or would it just be awarded to QB because they were in the final? Was the same possibly ineligible player in the semi final game vs MB also?

Wow could be interesting......I hope for the Callies sake these allegations are false!

Any info would be awesome!

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Complete and utter bollocks.

Does Sokol really believe that the only way that they can win games is through protesting?!

From the Sokol website (http://www.sokolsc.prv.pl) Thanks for posting the link IDO!

"...An investigation by the Quebec Soccer federation is underway for the illegal use of elite players by Alberta."

Elsewhere on the site:

"The game ended up in disqualification of the Ontario squad for having illegal players so the final score was 3-0 with another shutout her Krause"

What is this crap? Oh no, they beat us, let's protest! Besides the "Quebec Soccer Federation" has no juristiction at a national championship, it would have to be the CSA.

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So does that mean there was no truth to this? Did the Callies have an illeagal player or not? Very curious to know! Also who would have alerted Sokol to the fact that this player was (if indeed he was) inelligible? C'mon people we have enough sources to find this stuff out! Cheeta......you must have heard something?

As for your question soccer hack about Sokol and protesting,etc. They learned that trick from former National champion Son's of Italy! For years Son's of Italy was Lucania's doormat and they resorted to these dirty whining tactics because they couldn't (actually no one could) beat Lucania on the field...so they tried to do it in the board room instead. This came about when a current SOI player was the Vice President of the Manitoba Soccer Assoc. He had an in.....and used it to his full advantage. For a couple of years they protested everything from the color of Lucania's jersey's to the quality of the player's girlfriends! (not really but it did get ridiculous for awhile there! Anyways Sokol seems to have an inferiority complex when it comes to LFC and SOI and will seemingly stoop to a low level to try and keep pace with the big boys of Manitoba soccer.

For the record......if (and thats a big if) the Callies are found guilty and are disqualified as champions,then my suggestion would be a one game (winner is declared national amateur champion) playoff between MB and QB at a mutually or CSA appointed venue either within the next couple of weeks or early next year! Any other ideas?

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Sokal in a nat champ game, are you kidding me?

I want to clarrify that Ont disqualification was overturned, but it was overturned too late. The original disqualification occured, because the OSA 'forgot' to fax an updated roster to the CSA. After an inquiry the OSA had to publicly apologize to Kanata Soccer Post for their blunder. The club will recieve a compensation package, which is yet to be determined, from the OSA.

As far as all this talk about disqualifications is in the air. Lets not forget that Sokal SC has had a payroll matching most CPSL clubs in canada for the last two years. I personaly think its disgraceful to even ponder the idea of Sokal competing for the national championship. They shouldn't have qualified out of their group, they only won one game out right, and they didn't play by the rules to begin with.

I for one would much rather enjoy winning a challenge cup outright, on the field. I guess some of my colleagues in manitoba don't feel the same way

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Sounds like the tourny was a bit of a shambles in places sorry to hear.

I can understand clubs being upset about the use of ineligible players. A lot of money is spent by the clubs and the players to attend these tournys. But that being said, we've got some pretty lax rules about what qualifies as a professional, semi-professional, blah, blah, blah, and I can't imagine any of the elite ameture sides in Canada are not taking advantage of the "grey" areas where they can.

If in a short tourny like the Challenge Cup a side thinks it can sneek a ringer in and get away with it because of the odvious time constraints of due process it should just be let go? I don't think so. If you're busted after the fact, you're busted. You got caught. Take your lumps and don't blame those you've cheated for "crying". Fu'k...

Of course that being said, if you're disappointed by your performance don't assume it's because everyone else is a cheat. Sokol's biggest knock was lack of consistancy and little coaching (never mind a few personality issues). If someone's just looking for excuses, grow the hell up. You'll get another chance at it all again next year.

Sokol's got a budget. So do Sons of Italy Lions and I'm sure Calgary Callies have a treasury as well. Maybe some of the players are getting a little better than (how should I put this?) a really generous gas allowance and coverage for lost wages for time missed from work, but big deal. It's not as though we're talking upper A-League contracts here. Or participation in professional leagues.

P.S. Congrats again to the Callies. Curse your yellow bellys, arrrrg. Hope you don't loose the Cup as cheats.

P.S.S. IDO, I'm sure your post had many a Winnipeger, posters and lurkers alike grinning. It's funny because it's true...

P.S.S.S. Well, damn Pony, you're the man on the ground out there in Quebec. Where's the dirt? Rumor and speculation are 9/10ths of any soccer board.

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First off, I'm not dissapointed with any performance we had against Sokal. We kicked the ..... out of them for ninety minutes, won fair and square(and should have been by a hell of a lot more), then had the result overturned because of an allegation that was untrue, and was later proven so.

In my opinion, paying players is paying players. That is what classifies someone as a proffesional. I personally don't see anything wrong with it, even at the challenge cup. Hell, I think we should expand the tourney to include pro teams. However, when a team like Sokal throws money around like they do, and furthermore talk like they are world beaters, they shouldn't go around searching to see if all the teams in the tourney have dotted their i's after they've been beaten by them. The fact of the matter is that they didn't show, on the field, that they are entitled to 'another shot' and therefore shouldn't go around looking for one.

Cheeta, I know you are just defending Manitoba soccer and , being a fellow toban, I in some way understand. However, having been there and taken part first hand in the whole shamble, it makes me a little hot to hear there even being talk of a team like that getting another chance for the reason's they put forward.

Hopefully I haven't ticked too many people off

Pony

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Pony.....did you play for Kanata? Did you also play for the Wizards at any time? Just want to know if you are who I think you are.

That being said it really was too bad Lucania wasn't at the Challenge cup......I am sure the Callies would have loved to play them in the rubber match! Callies beat Lucania 4-1 in 1999,and Lucania returned the favor in 2000 to the tune of 2-1. I just love these inter-provincial rivalries. Too bad Lucania didn't hold up their end of the deal this year! O well the last time the Callies won......,everyone in MB will remember who won the next year! We can always dream......right Cheeta!

P.S. When is Manitoba going to give our senior teams the "home field" advantage and host the Challenge cup/Jubilee trophy tourney?

P.S.S. Cheeta at least someone appreciates good ol'prarie humor......by the way......where is my cookie (for calling the Callies)!

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So what is the word on the street? Any truth to the rumors or was it just Sokol blowing smoke? There must have been some basis for the investigation by the Quebec Soccer Fed.? C'mon people someone must KNOW something! Inquiring minds NEED to know!

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Looks like smoke. The other board has some facts coming from a Callies player. It looks like Sokol's just whining. All the Callies players were legal. If anything, there are more questions surrounding the Sokol players and professional status. Looks like they spend more money on players than some CPSL sides.

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Good to hear. That would be a realy wretched way to loose a trophy.

Sokol whining and making excuses? Yeah, probably. They sure wanted this Cup bad. Winning it would have gone a long way to adding to the club's perception. In the last two seasons they've won more than their share of the hardware but I guess there's a feeling that Sokol still isn't getting due respect. I don't think so. In the bleachers, for all the critical words and personal dislikes, Sokol is generaly viewed warily. Not most clubs first choice for an opponent.

See what happens next year I guess. I think we're quite lucky. If Lucania can bring their game back up some and Hellas and Croatia find somewhere a body or two 2004 could be a grand season for football in Winnipeg. Already can't wait.

Oh yeah. I'll just add I'm sure everyone involved with the Sons of Italy Lions are delighted to hear of Sokol's woes in Quebec. Lions had one purpose this year, Hellas robbed them of it, and then the consolation, the Playoff Championship got away from them thanks to Croatia. Had Sokol taken the Challenge Cup without having beaten the Lions once,,,well, I can't even imagine.

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Ease up a little Doyle......1st,4th,1st, and possibly another 3rd/4th?(at the Callenge cup) We can't be that bad! But definitely,I agree way too many guys getting extra scratch under the table. It kinda ruins things a bit.

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Just answering a couple questions

IDO: I thought I said it before, but yes I play for Kanata

Impact supporter: I think this one might raise some ayre.

My belief is that teams that qualify for the nationals should go though qualifying skeds that are at least a little similair. For example Ontario had 74 teams in the OC this year, with the winner qualifying. NFLD had a wopping 6 teams. I believe manitoba had 12, NS- 8, sask, NB, PEI had similair numbers. My suggestion is for regions like the maritimes and the praries, with so few entries, there should only be a regional representative. Ideally, there should be pre tournament break down for all regions, so that the tounament is 4 or 5 teams at the final stage, but I know that will never happen.

So, if I had my way, it would go like this.

PQ, Ab, BC, On, sask, Mb, two reps from atlantic canada

or

PQ, Ab, BC, On, Prarie rep, Nfld, Two reps from maritimes

depending on where the championship is

(with next year in PEI, option B would apply)

then you could have two groups of 4, with the winner of each in the national championship game

This isn't a knock on anybody. i beleive in this because of numbers, thats all. Right now I don't think its fair that beating out six teams gets you the same spot as beating out 30, 40....70 teams.

As far as distances go, thats not an argument in my book. just ask London portuguese how long their bus ride was to Ottawa. I personally had to drive from Ottawa to Toronto 3 times for cup alone.

Hopefully this will be a talking point

Pony

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Definitely a talking point Pony!

But I for one have some problems with your system.

The last 5 National champions in order from 1999 AB (Callies),2000 MB (Lucania),2001 NS (King of Donair),2002 MB (Son's of Italy),2003 AB (Callies). I should also mention that from 1999-2001 Ns,MB,and AB were in the same group every year and whichever team came out of that particular group was the one that was going be the national champion!

My problem with your proposal is simple why have the praries or Maritimes playoff for a spot in the final tourney? What makes BC so special? Why are they given a free pass? I say you take the Western provinces and take the seedings from the previous years Nationals. Whichever two out of MB,BC,AB,and SK are seeded lowest have to playoff in a qualifier! This is considering the tournament is in the east. Should a Western province be hosting then who is to say that the mighty ONT shouldn't have to play a qualifier? When was the last time a team from ONT won the tournament? Not in the last 10 yrs! NS has been in the mix alot,why do they have to take the chance of a one off qualifier? No Pony the more I think about the costs of all this extra qualifying and all the bickering it would cause,I just think they should leave the tournament as is! The present format could use some work though. I liked the old format of 2 groups of 5. The only problem with this format was that after playing 4 games in 5 days the teams were a little banged up once the final came around! O well only the strong survive! The Callies were the fittest team in QB this year and they won!

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You missed my point.

If indeed NS and MB are such footballing powerhouses,

then they shouldn't have a problem qualifying every year. It would just mean another round in their cup and these teams would still have less knockout games then the more populated provinces.

My point was that these provinces don't have as many teams as BC or On, and therefore can make it to the challenge cup winning only one or two elimination games.

If you want to make this into a p***ing contest over who has won what.

If you look at the previous winners. Overwhelmingly, BC has produced the most challenge cup champs with Ontario a distant second (the cup winners are posted on the CSA web site if you want to take a look)

However, this wasn't my point, its numbers. thats it thats all.

Cutting the final tournament down would provide a better measure of teams as opposed to a 'who can incure the most injuries' award. I suggested creating qualifiers out of the praries and the maritimes, because they are the least populated parts of canada.

Just a question, if Nunavut wanted a rep next year should they get one?

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Sure it's only one more game but you forget that traveling costs money. The minute you make teams have to travel somewhere to play qualifiers it starts to stretch budgets! Now I know the Sokols of the world can handle this extra expense but some clubs cannot!

By the way I don't want to make this a pissing contest but why should a defending national champ have to qualify when in theory a team like BC or ONT finishes 9th or 10th? I don't really agree with your theory on the number of games you have to play either. That should actually be an advantage for the teams coming out of BC or ONT. The more high level,high intensity games you play,the more battle hardened you are for the Challenge cup.Also here in MB we had to play 5 or 6 games to win the cup so it is pretty close after all. Another note (even though this pains me to say) Sokol had to go through 2 former national (very recent) champions to win the cup! That doesn't happen to often in other provinces. I guess what I'm trying to say is that each province determines their rep in different manners,but it doesn't make it any easier to win the Challenge cup!

I agree that there are too many games at the tourney but what other option (besides yours) is there? As well I don't nessecarily believe that it is a who can incure the most injuries type of tourney! The deeper your team is the better chance you have to win,no question. But the fitter you are the less likely you are to suffer injuries.It is all about preparation! It sure sounded like the Callies were the most prepared to win this year and surprise surprise.....they did!

Should Nunavut be given an entry? Maybe....they gave one to yukon in 2000!

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Defending national champs don't get an auto bid anyway. they have to qualify through their province again the following year.

The other thing I want to point out is that I've personally played in the MSA cup on a number of ocasions, and can say that it IS NOT the grind that the ontario cup is. You cannot compare Hanover kickers or Blue blazers to playing a reigneing OSL, WOSL, OCSL....etc champ. Furthermore, the reason their was six games for the champ in manitoba, was because there were so few teams that they had to set up a round robin.

Your logic is based on a couple good seasons for a couple of good clubs. I'm still sticking to the idea that if a club is national championship materiel, then playing a lesser side from a neighboring province shouldn't be a big deal. Especially if it means not playing that team right before you have to play someone like Callies.

Personally, I'd love to have a qualifier against NFLD. I heard George street is a blast.

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You missed my point.Why should MB (if they were)as defending champs have to qualify vs SK if AB or BC had finished 5th,6th or lower? Why not make BC or AB qualify? Your logic is cloudy?

I have many close friends playing a high level in ONT,and they tell me that yes it is a grind.....but only due to the number of games and the amount of driving you have to do. Why punish other provinces because ONT is more densely populated. These same friends tell me that teams like Lucania,Son's of Italy,and even Sokol for that matter would have no trouble competing in the OSL,WOSL,etc and that they would do very well.

You are quite right that you can't compare the Blue Blazers to London Portugese or Kanata,however what is the difference? At the end of the day you have to beat them all anyway,and as I said it only prepares you for the grind at the Challenge cup.I would love to play regularily vs teams like the Callies or Kanata but that is not possible.We here in MB must content ourselves with the Croatia's the Hellas's,and United Westons of the world.Now who would you rather play in preparation for the Challenge cup? London Portugese or the Hanover Kickers?

It is a big deal to play a qualifying game! You know the old saying,"on any given day......" well why should MB or SK or NS have to take the risk? Ask Son's of Italy about upsets.You yourself have first hand experience losing to a team from SK.My point is why put the added qualifying on the so called smaller provinces when their top teams are as good (or as recent history from MB and NS have shown) or better than the traditional soccer powers of BC and ONT?

When was the last time an ONT team won anything at Nationals? I for one have first hand experience playing Ont teams at Nationals.In 94' we beat Scarbourough Azurri 2-0,97'we tied Dundas 1-1 with 10 men for 80min,in 99'we pounded Woodbridge Sora 3or4 nil and in 2000 I would have loved to play the woodbridge Azurri but they couldn't make it past BC who we beat 2-0 in the final.My point is,the best teams in the smaller provinces are every bit as good as the best teams in the larger provinces,and should not have to qualify any differently than the BC's and Ontario's!

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Pony and IDO:

Just got to thinking about one tournament that gets overlooked : the provincial all star teams tournament held every summer. Even though it is U-15 and U-17 it is in this tournament that the scouts find the future soccer stars for the National Team, possible Europe. There would need to be some changes to upgrade the profile of this tournament notably these provincial all star teams would have to become full on teams so that palyers could gel as a team, as well in some provinces there would have to be more select teams like Eastern Ontario, Western Ontario, Northern Ontario, Northern Alberta, etc.

Iwas just thinking this because if the Challenge Cup can be turned into a Cup Winners Cup, this provincial all star teams tournament should get a higher profile.

And Pony as for reducing the number of teams I am not for this. Maybe it is best to have a Brier format (Curling) where all provincial cup winners come to play at one location 2 groups of 5 teams. Or if you want to reduce teams in the Maritmies and Praries what about having regional playdowns so that there is a Central Winner(Ontario vs Quebec) and Western Winner(Bc vs Alberta) This becomes a final four concept where the Maritimes Winner, Central Winner, Praries Winner, and Western Winner come together at the home of one of the winners alternate between East and West each year.

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Al right,

I seem to have struck a nerve somewhere.

I was talking from experience playing in both provinces extensively and noticing a difference in play. By the way, the format I suggested has been used in the past in different national competitions. I like Imapctsupporter's idea, of regional playdowns.

I pretty much support any format that doesn't level the feild for weaker teams like the current one does.

This is my last post on this subject

Pony

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