Canuck Oranje Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 I just happened to scan over www.kicker.de 's ratings today and I wondered how de Guzman compares this year to the lost Canadian, Hargreaves. Especially since there are some who see Hargreaves as the best Canadian soccer player (although choosing to play for England). I thought it might be time to introduce this comparison. It is interesting that de Guzman comes ahead at this stage of the year. The two are only two months apart in age. So from www.kicker.de Hargreaves De Guzman Games played: 5 6 Kicker rating: 3.10 3.00 Goals: 1 1 Assists: 1 2 It will be interesting to see how this develops over the year. One can argue that Hargreaves plays for the glamour team; but, let's face it, they both play in the same league playing the same opposition. Anyway I find the comparison interesting because Hargreaves seems to get all the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack I don't consider the whore a Canadian player anyway. The thing that pisses me off the most about the whore, is that he gets all the press (because he chose to play for England), Now ,now. Easy! I think 99% of the people out there would make the same decision as Hargraeves (ie. to play for England)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobe_z Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Urm... You obviously haven't been around here very long. The traitor's supporters are few and far between. Maybe you'd choose England... but I'm Canadian 100%. You can play for any club team you want, but your country is your country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe05 Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I completely agree Massiva attack. Some of my non-soccer fan friends are shocked when I tell them how many goals Radzinski scored in the premier league last season. The media just chooses to ignore him. I wonder what Radz will have to do to get some press. The same goes for de Guzman et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe05 Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 And no way in hell would I play for England over Canada! The other thing I forgot to mention was the lack of understanding England fans have about Hargreaves. On the Chelsea message board, some of them even thought he live some of his life in England. When I told them the whole situation, most of the posters said Canadian fans had every right to be upset with him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrek Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Unfortunately for Radzinski, he is ignored by the media because he wasn't born in Canada. Hargreaves was - so he is a player that was born and raised in Canada, and one who also developed his skills here. It's unfortunate but it's true. Hargreaves receives WAY too much attention then he deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian B. Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 It's another sport but do you remember Greg Rusedski from Pointe-Claire, Québec who lived his entire life and learned his tennis in Canada and decided to play for England instead of Canada because his father was born in the UK. His decision was taken probably because he thought that his chances to succeed on the international stage were better by playing for England than for tiny Canada. Justice was made yesterday. England got kicked out from the world group in the Davis cup and Canada got in by eliminating Brasil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian B. Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 And by the way, the main reason for the elimination of England is the 2 defeats (Including the final match) by Rusedski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoolboy Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 hargreaves isn't the type of player canada needs anyway ... we need midfield creators with skil... we don't need workaholics who run all day and tackle hard...we have enough of those players...we need creative thinkers and players...has hargreaves ever impressed anyone when he has played for england?...if he played for canada he would be a poor man's lyndon hooper...what we have to do is continue to bring foreign clubs on tours of canada...get them hammered after their exhibition matches and hook them up with canadian girls...the girls get pregnant...some of the players marry...and then they are eligible to play for canada...just joking (i wish)...what ever happened to that whole sebrango situation ... wasn't he the cuban captain who defected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I remember back in the day when everyone thought we had the holy trinity coming through the ranks - DeGuzman, Whoregreaves and Dunfield. At the time it seemed like DeGuzman was the real 'talent' and the other two were very useful hard-working mids who had made big in-roads to Europe. For a few years that changed, but I still think DeGuzman has skills that the whore will never have. If the English weren't so desperate for a left-footed player, he'd struggle to get games. He's got a lot of talent and has proven himself at all levels, but I have faith that DeGuzman will continue to develop and prove his talents at the highest level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck in Boston Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Interesting bit on Hargreaves nationality. I was in London during the buildup to England's recent Euro2004 qualifying matches and most of the papers referred to him as the Canadian born and raised, England defender/midfielder...or something like that. So he still is not accepted as one of them....or at least that is how it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by strobe_z Urm... You obviously haven't been around here very long. The traitor's supporters are few and far between. Maybe you'd choose England... but I'm Canadian 100%. You can play for any club team you want, but your country is your country. Of course no Canadian is going to support his decision to play for England, but that doesn't mean that 99% of people in his shoes wouldn't do the same. The decision Hargraeves made is good for his career. Plain and simple. You think Radz would get a lack of respect if he played for England? Plus who wouldn't wanna play in a World Cup? And by the way, to say Canada couldn't use him is pretty laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 What is the basis of 99% figure? Players like David Edgar would suggest otherwise, unless you can provide 99 examples of players choosing England over Canada to his one of a player choosing Canada over England? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWay Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Ryan Giggs disagrees. But then again, his judgmement is obviously clouded by values and principles. From his distorted view, I suppose it isn't so "plain and simple". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWay Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Ok, just for argument purposes, lets assume we live in a world where personal gain takes precedence over all else (and well, it's not that far from the truth). Let's assume that the Whore's actions are acceptable in the name of advancing his career. Certainly then, it would be no big deal for Owen to come out and state that he's playing for England for the good of his career. According to you, no one would have any problem with that. So why is it that Hargreaves, at one point said (and I'm paraphrasing here since the quote is bookmarked on my computer back in Toronto) "Playing for Canada has always been my goal, I just have to deal with my situation in Germany first", yet then, after being capped for England started up with the whole "I've always felt English" and "Playing for England has always been a dream" (or whatever it was that he said). Why the whole facade? If it's acceptable that he plays for England for professional reasons, why doesn't he just say that? He obvious had his heart set on playing for Canada before England even knew he existed. Hence, his new found love for England is obviously a lie. Why the coverup? What's he got to hide? You may think there is nothing wrong with what Owen did, but obviously Owen does! Why else would he feel the need to compensate and protect himself with all of these lies? Is he having trouble coming to terms with his decision? And since when has Radz been the target of disrespect for playing for Canada? I've seen more disrespect (outside of this board) towards the Whore. I'd also hope that you wouldn't be that concerned about what others think of you, to the point tht it would force you to be disloyal to your country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca What is the basis of 99% figure? Players like David Edgar would suggest otherwise, unless you can provide 99 examples to his one of a player choosing England over Canada? Add Terry Dunfield as well. It is one thing for someone who has lived a good portion of his/her life in the adopted country, to make that choice, it is quite another for someone who has not. Even guys liek Rusdeski and Lewis represented Canada at some point before opting for the nationality of convenience. While I personally don't see any reason to disparage the kid because of the choice, it is certainly not a defencibile choice by anything I value. Good for his career? (not something I value, and chose to turn down a job in the US so my kids could grow up in Canada) Yes, perhaps. It is certainly more convenient to play internationally. I doubt there will be any significant financial implications, aside from the difference in appearance fees. Baring a sudden explosion in flair and creativity, he is not the type of player who will attract big endorsements. He is a good enough player that zipping off to represent Canada would not cost him his position on with his club, as is a risk for some many Canadians best described as journeymen. But who knows, perhaps he grew up in a household that considered themselves as exiled Englishmen in Canada.In which case, perhaps he truely does feel English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by JayWay Why the whole facade? If it's acceptable that he plays for England for professional reasons, why doesn't he just say that? He obvious had his heart set on playing for Canada before England even knew he existed. Hence, his new found love for England is obviously a lie. Why the coverup? What's he got to hide? Because it sounds better than saying "I chose England for fame and money and I can't be bothered travelling thousands of miles and risking injury to play a game in Guatamala." quote:Originally posted by JayWay You may think there is nothing wrong with what Owen did, but obviously Owen does! Why else would he feel the need to compensate and protect himself with all of these lies? Is he having trouble coming to terms with his decision? I don't know anything about the Owen situation, but maybe Hargraeves did do something bad, wrong... whatever. Doesn't mean that most everyone wouldn't do the same thing given the opportunity (even if they know its wrong). Since when do people always choose the "right" thing? Have you seen a Jerry Springer episode lately? quote:Originally posted by JayWay And since when has Radz been the target of disrespect for playing for Canada? I've seen more disrespect (outside of this board) towards the Whore. Since never. I said he was under-appreciated globally (which others seem to be saying on this board too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 In an ironic sort of way, this thread provides evidence as to why the press continues to talk about Hargreaves. His name still generates debate. The point of the initial post was to show that de Guzman has now acheived parity in soccer terms, at least, this year so far. But somehow it seems Hargreaves is a more interesting topic of discussion. Why does the press continue to talk about Hargreaves? Because we read the articles when they do... Love him or hate him.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_Yank Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I wouldn't choose to play for England either. A couple of "yanks" have chosen other countries. Thankfully no one any good, but I have no respect for those who turn their back on their country. Unless they aren't good enough to represent said country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoolboy Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 what would you say if Adu chose Ghana?...what other yanks have changed nationalities?...let's be honest almost every canadian has the oppurtunity to play for another country but most of our players are not good enough...i read a quote awhile ago saying that radzinski wished he wasn't capped for canada so he could play for poland...by just saying that isn't he as bad as owen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattbin Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack At least Radz was born in Poland, I dont think the whore was even a resident of England, at any time in his life. Now, now. He visited England a few times, on summers, don't you know. And his father was a huge Bolton fan. Er, that's it really. Allez les Rouges, M@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe05 Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 You hit it right on the head again MA. The fact that Hargreaves has never lived in the country and is playing for them is a joke. Radz has lived in both Poland and Canada (as well as some other countries I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by mattbin Now, now. He visited England a few times, on summers, don't you know. And his father was a huge Bolton fan. Plus when Owen was 16 his cat humped a spice girl doll. So there's a link there to Britain. I don't blame Hargreaves is as much as the people who make up the rules for country-links. The rules have to be more black-and-white. Maybe make it so that you have to play for the country (or countries) that you held citizenship for at some point during the first 15 years of your life... for example.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 He was eligible not only to play for Canada but England, Wales and possibly Germany (the latter if he claimed residency). When the possibility first existed it looked as though he was going to play for Wales (his mother's home country) and not Canada. Once he was annointed a good prospect England stepped in. I think it is another example that we should adopt the Holland model. They cap just about any promising young talent so they're cap-tied. By the way, which coach cut him way back? Was it Paul James? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclee Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Andrew W By the way, which coach cut him way back? Was it Paul James? I believe Tony Taylor cut Hargreaves, DeGuzman and Klukowski from the same team. I recall his explanation was that we needed results that the forementioned younger players (1 year below) would not supply. He regretted that decision as the team he selected did poorly. I saw that team play on cablecast and they did not impress. If only we had developmental teams back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.