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Asia 4.5 WC spots a joke?


amacpher

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China just completed a very impressive North American tour that saw them go winless!! They lost to Haiti, Costa Rica and the Metrostars. Nice treble! Some guy named "Nugent", who's not good enough to play in MLS, scored the winning goal for the Metrostars!

[?]Does anybody have a good answer as to why Asia sends more teams to the WC than Concacaf and same number as South America?? What's mind-boggling is that not only was China the best team in Asian WC 2002 qualifying, but they dominated</u>. They went undefeated until their very last game (which meant nothing to them)! Until the top qualifier in South America or Concacaf lose to a B-side average MLS team, I think that 4.5 number is about 4.25 too many! Or is this just me?!

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LOL, you're not first person on these boards (including the old one) complain about the Asian spots. There are a few who agree with you, including me. I bet that Asia's high number of WC spots has something to do with the AFC's voting power in FIFA. Asia has quite a lot of member nations and each nation has 1 vote. If, say an incumbent FIFA president wants to get re-elected and needs votes, kissing up to Asia is not a bad idea.

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

China just completed a very impressive North American tour that saw them go winless!! They lost to Haiti, Costa Rica and the Metrostars. Nice treble! Some guy named "Nugent", who's not good enough to play in MLS, scored the winning goal for the Metrostars!

[?]Does anybody have a good answer as to why Asia sends more teams to the WC than Concacaf and same number as South America?? What's mind-boggling is that not only was China the best team in Asian WC 2002 qualifying, but they dominated</u>. They went undefeated until their very last game (which meant nothing to them)! Until the top qualifier in South America or Concacaf lose to a B-side average MLS team, I think that 4.5 number is about 4.25 too many! Or is this just me?!

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quote:Originally posted by amacpher

China just completed a very impressive North American tour that saw them go winless!! They lost to Haiti, Costa Rica and the Metrostars. Nice treble! Some guy named "Nugent", who's not good enough to play in MLS, scored the winning goal for the Metrostars!

[?]Does anybody have a good answer as to why Asia sends more teams to the WC than Concacaf and same number as South America?? What's mind-boggling is that not only was China the best team in Asian WC 2002 qualifying, but they dominated</u>. They went undefeated until their very last game (which meant nothing to them)! Until the top qualifier in South America or Concacaf lose to a B-side average MLS team, I think that 4.5 number is about 4.25 too many! Or is this just me?!

China had a very crap group in their qualifying run which explains their going undefeated. I don't think you'd have the same condescending remarks about South Korea or Japan. Iran had some good sides until recently.

I do not think that AFC deserves 4.5 spots but they are not completely useless.

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quote:Originally posted by Metro

I bet that Asia's high number of WC spots has something to do with the AFC's voting power in FIFA. Asia has quite a lot of member nations and each nation has 1 vote. If, say an incumbent FIFA president wants to get re-elected and needs votes, kissing up to Asia is not a bad idea.

That's sad if its true. Sounds like there needs to be some weighting done on these votes. The vote of Italy shouldn't count as much as some country that thinks a soccer ball is something you should slice in 2 and eat noodle-soup out of... or whatever...

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quote:Originally posted by amacpher

The vote of Italy shouldn't count as much as some country that thinks a soccer ball is something you should slice in 2 and eat noodle-soup out of... or whatever...

Well, soccer is bigger in Asian countries than in Canada or the US.
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quote:Originally posted by Ed

China had a very crap group in their qualifying run which explains their going undefeated. I don't think you'd have the same condescending remarks about South Korea or Japan. Iran had some good sides until recently.

I do not think that AFC deserves 4.5 spots but they are not completely useless.

What I saw from the World Cup indicated that China must have been in the Group of Death compared to the one that Saudi Arabia somehow won! ... As for Japan, I'm still waiting for their rise towards a soccer power-nation that many people seem to think not only will happen, but already has happened. It's puzzling! Japan has never done anything in a World Cup! ... PS .. They just lost 1-0 at home to Senegal today! Sounds like they are China's form. Maybe they should invite the Metrostars to Niigata!

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quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Well, even if that's true throughout Asia (which it isn't), between Canada and the US we have 0 guarantee entries to the WC instead of 4!
That's not what my comment was directed at. It was directed at your comment about Asians not knowing what to do with a soccer ball.

The reason that Asia has 4.5 spots is definitely political. They were supposed to have 4 (including Japan and South Korea) in 2002 but wanted 5, and after they made a big fuss about it UEFA volunteered to give up half a spot (which they ended up winning back when Ireland beat Iran) in exchange for Asian votes when it came time to bid for 2006 --- pure politics. Then since South Korea made it to the semifinals in 2002 they had a nice excuse for why they should still have 4.5 spots despite Saudi Arabia's and China's performance (actually I think they wanted a full 5, but that was pushing it). I may have over-simplified things here but generally these events were well-documented.

If I may now throw in my own opinion, I think another reason for so many spots in Asia (in particular, why they have as many as 4 in the first place) is that FIFA wants the sport to continue to grow in Asia (lots of people and lots of money), so they want to make sure that countries like Japan, China and South Korea always get in.

Finally, regarding how China and Saudi Arabia qualified, Saudi Arabia's group was indeed deemed to be more difficult than China's as Ed suggested because it included Iran. Apart from that the two groups were roughly equal. Remember that with Japan and South Korea already qualified, Asian qualifying was generally weaker than it normally would be.

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quote:Originally posted by amacpher

I guess you didn't watch the World Cup last year, where Japan made it to the round of 16 and lost to the eventual 3rd place team (Turkey), and where Senegal made it to the quarters (where they too lost to Turkey).

South Korea made it to the 3rd place match, where it too lost to Turkey (I detect a pattern ;) )

4.5 spots is a lot, but it is erroneous to claim that Asian countries have done "nothing" at the World Cup.

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quote:Originally posted by amacpher

I guess you didn't watch the World Cup last year, where Japan made it to the round of 16 and lost to the eventual 3rd place team (Turkey), and where Senegal made it to the quarters (where they too lost to Turkey).

South Korea made it to the 3rd place match, where it too lost to Turkey (I detect a pattern ;) )

4.5 spots is a lot, but it is erroneous to claim that Asian countries have done "nothing" at the World Cup.

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quote:Originally posted by DJT

That's not what my comment was directed at. It was directed at your comment about Asians not knowing what to do with a soccer ball.

Right. But I still think soccer is way more popular in the US than anywhere in Asia. Even if the only reason might be that a huge percentage of people in the US are S.American & C.American immigrants.

quote:Originally posted by DJT

Then since South Korea made it to the semifinals in 2002 they had a nice excuse for why they should still have 4.5 spots despite Saudi Arabia's and China's performance (actually I think they wanted a full 5, but that was pushing it).

And this kind of reasoning is why I put the word "joke" in the thread's title! S.America somehow loses WC spots despite continually winning the tournament, and Asia gains WC spots for continually having the 2 worst teams in the tournament!

Anyway, I think the next WC will be a big embarrassment to Asia!! IT will be the first time they have 4 teams in the tournament without any having home advantage, referee advantage or handed #1 seeds. Then FIFA will be forced to reduce that 4.5 number.

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quote:Originally posted by DJT

That's not what my comment was directed at. It was directed at your comment about Asians not knowing what to do with a soccer ball.

Right. But I still think soccer is way more popular in the US than anywhere in Asia. Even if the only reason might be that a huge percentage of people in the US are S.American & C.American immigrants.

quote:Originally posted by DJT

Then since South Korea made it to the semifinals in 2002 they had a nice excuse for why they should still have 4.5 spots despite Saudi Arabia's and China's performance (actually I think they wanted a full 5, but that was pushing it).

And this kind of reasoning is why I put the word "joke" in the thread's title! S.America somehow loses WC spots despite continually winning the tournament, and Asia gains WC spots for continually having the 2 worst teams in the tournament!

Anyway, I think the next WC will be a big embarrassment to Asia!! IT will be the first time they have 4 teams in the tournament without any having home advantage, referee advantage or handed #1 seeds. Then FIFA will be forced to reduce that 4.5 number.

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quote:Originally posted by Mimglow

I guess you didn't watch the World Cup last year, where Japan made it to the round of 16 and lost to the eventual 3rd place team (Turkey), and where Senegal made it to the quarters (where they too lost to Turkey).

South Korea made it to the 3rd place match, where it too lost to Turkey (I detect a pattern ;) )

4.5 spots is a lot, but it is erroneous to claim that Asian countries have done "nothing" at the World Cup.

Okay, I'll say they did "nothing without home-advantage in a World Cup" . Lets not forget how important home advantage is even if there was no match fixing or referee pay-offs going on (huge "if")! Just ask France.

And also, Japan did nothing </u>in that last WC. I mean, common - look at their group! How could they not make it to the Round of 16!

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quote:Originally posted by Mimglow

I guess you didn't watch the World Cup last year, where Japan made it to the round of 16 and lost to the eventual 3rd place team (Turkey), and where Senegal made it to the quarters (where they too lost to Turkey).

South Korea made it to the 3rd place match, where it too lost to Turkey (I detect a pattern ;) )

4.5 spots is a lot, but it is erroneous to claim that Asian countries have done "nothing" at the World Cup.

Okay, I'll say they did "nothing without home-advantage in a World Cup" . Lets not forget how important home advantage is even if there was no match fixing or referee pay-offs going on (huge "if")! Just ask France.

And also, Japan did nothing </u>in that last WC. I mean, common - look at their group! How could they not make it to the Round of 16!

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Asia represents over half the World's population! The love of soccer there is rampant (no way soccer is more popular in the US than there, even among the "8 year olds and lesbians" :) ), and it is growing. Watch out for the Vietnams and the Yemens over the next few years!

Asia has a lot of votes in FIFA, but not as many as Africa (which has 5 spots in the WC), and proportionately not over the top like Oceania and Concacaf.

If Asia is as bad as some say, then they won't get their half-spot (Iran was very competitive against Ireland in the last go round). So, with 4 that's only 12.5 % of the spots for 60% of the world. What's the problem dudes?

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Asia represents over half the World's population! The love of soccer there is rampant (no way soccer is more popular in the US than there, even among the "8 year olds and lesbians" :) ), and it is growing. Watch out for the Vietnams and the Yemens over the next few years!

Asia has a lot of votes in FIFA, but not as many as Africa (which has 5 spots in the WC), and proportionately not over the top like Oceania and Concacaf.

If Asia is as bad as some say, then they won't get their half-spot (Iran was very competitive against Ireland in the last go round). So, with 4 that's only 12.5 % of the spots for 60% of the world. What's the problem dudes?

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quote:Originally posted by beachesl

Asia represents over half the World's population! The love of soccer there is rampant (no way soccer is more popular in the US than there, even among the "8 year olds and lesbians" :) ), and it is growing. Watch out for the Vietnams and the Yemens over the next few years!

Asia has a lot of votes in FIFA, but not as many as Africa (which has 5 spots in the WC), and proportionately not over the top like Oceania and Concacaf.

If Asia is as bad as some say, then they won't get their half-spot (Iran was very competitive against Ireland in the last go round). So, with 4 that's only 12.5 % of the spots for 60% of the world. What's the problem dudes?

The problem is, this shouldn't have anything to do with population! If we base it on population then Oceania should get about 0.1 spots in the Rugby World Cup despite being so strong in this sport! Plus Iran was competitive with Ireland (well, sorta) because they are NOT the 5th best team in Asia. Their qualifying struggles was a surprise. Expect to see Saudi Arabia or UAE in the next playoff!

And if soccer is so popular in places like China and everyone is playing it, how come out of a billion people they can't find 11 guys to beat a B-side MLS team?

Also until this year, MLS had better attendance figures than even the Korean league (Korean attendance rose over 70% to barely pass MLS - no doubt because of the WC, but it surely will level-off in a couple of years), so I don't think I need to bother finding attendance figures for the Pakistani or Afghan leagues! I mean Asia is huge with wide disparities in culture! To say soccer is more popular in Asia than the US is like saying "Brazil is a dangerous neighbourhood". Your first instinct might be to agree with the statement, but then when you think about it more you realize it doesn't even make sense! ... Also keep in mind if 2500 people attend a Canadian National game, that's still a higher proportion of the country's population than if 100,000 attend a Chinese National game! So, if on TV, you see everyone going crazy for soccer, keep those numbers in mind.

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