Someone explain CONCACAF WCQ this time around.

[Water]

Maybe I just can't find it on the CONCACAF website, but I'm going to blame it on the confederation for having an unnecessarily confusing website. What's the CONCACAF schedule like next year for World Cup Qualifying? Where's Canada? Are we using the semifinal/hex style again? We still have 3 spots, right?

[beachesl]

HERE is the CONCACAF press release that announced the WCQ proposal in February. It has mysteriously diasappeared from their site and other sites, so I had to copy it from my desktop. The proposal, along with the ones from Europe, Oceania, and Asia, have yet to be approved by FIFA, but expect an announcement soon. (I'll try to give an explanation in English, unless somebody does it better):

"U.S. Men's Qualifying Route to 2006 World Cup Presented by CONCACAF; Awaits FIFA Ratification

2/8/03 10:29 AM

NEW YORK, N.Y. (Friday, February 7, 2003) - CONCACAF will present a new qualifying format for the FIFA World Cup Germany 2006 for approval by FIFA. The new format was approved at the meeting of its Executive Committee at the offices of the General Secretariat in New York City on Friday, and will see the U.S. enter into the first phase of qualifying, where previously they had gone straight into the semifinals. With the new format each team will play upwards to 20 games to qualify for the next World Cup.

After reviewing several formats for CONCACAF qualifying to FIFA World Cup 2006, the Executive selected a plan that calls for the following:

All CONCACAF member national associations will enter at the first phase, with teams in either one of the 11 three-team or one two-team, home and away, round robin series beginning in Spring 2004.

The teams would be separated into four pots for the draw, which will be conducted by FIFA at a later date. The three CONCACAF representatives to FIFA World Cup 2002, Costa Rica, Mexico and the USA, would be placed in Pot A; Honduras, Trinidad & Tobago and Jamaica, the teams placed fourth through sixth in the final group during the last qualifying cycle, in Pot B.

Meanwhile, Pot C would consist of Barbados, Canada, El Salvador, Guatemala, Panama and St. Vincent and the Grenadines, all of whom reached the semifinal round of qualifying to Korea/Japan 2002, while Pot D would be comprised of the remaining 23 national associations entering in the competition.

Having all teams enter at the first phase guarantees each of a minimum of four qualifying matches (with the exception of those in the two-team group), as opposed to two in previous World Cup cycles.

The winners of each initial round robin tie will advance to one of three groups of four teams apiece, once again to be played in a home-and-home round-robin format.

The teams finishing in first and second in each four-team group at the second phase are qualified to the final phase, which will be a group of six teams to determine the CONCACAF representatives at FIFA World Cup Germany 2006.

The top three finishers in the final group are automatically qualified to the finals, with the fourth place team to meet the fifth-placed team from the Asian Football Confederation in a playoff to determine the last berth at Germany 2006.

Release courtesy of www.concacaf.com. "

[Christian B.]

We have 3 and a half spot. The Concacaf's 4th placed nation will have to meet an asian team in a play-off.

[beachesl]

So, there is no schedule yet, there isn't even a timeframe set. The actual hard schedule of the first round and a timeframe for the second/third/halfspot rounds will be set on the December 5 WCQ draw in Germany (except for South America who start this week and Africa who start in October, both preapproved).

CONCACAF has 3 1/2 spots, the last halfspot to be a playoff for our 4th placed hex team team against a representative from another Confederation. Originally it was to be against the 5th spot from Asia, but that may be changed due to the wrench in the works to take the fullspot from Oceania, and give a halfspot to South America. The final halfspot playoffs format has yet to be determined, but it may be changed into a 4 team round robin at a neutral site(top 2 qualifying) in November of 2005 (this is Oceania's proposal). Or, the home-and-aways may be drawn. Or, CONCACAF 4th may have to home-and-away with the 5th South American team so that Oceania is left wth a less daunting series with the 5th Asia. Stay tuned.

Okay, let's go back to the CONCACAF proposal, which ridiculously means 20 to 22 matches to qualify. It may be modified if FIFA is serious about fixture congestion, but don't count on it, it's Warner's baby (and Warner is Blatter's baby) and a way to curry favour with CONCACAF's smaller members:

First Round: Probably held in February and March of 2004 (which means 2 West Coast dates for the home portion in March for Canada). 11 groups of 3 teams ( and one group of 2 teams) playing home-and-away. The 12 seeded teams, including Canada, are in the Pots A, B and C. We could have an easy series against Montserrat and the US Virgin Islands , or a difficult series against Cuba and Haiti (both unseeded , as it is based on 2002 qualifying results). One lucky seeded team, maybe us (but not the US/Mex/CostaRica, will have to play only one of those teams). 4 matches.

Second Round (3 Groups of 4 teams, top 2 go on, 6 matches each, home and away):

Probably to be played from late spring 2004 to Novemeber 2004Seeded based on Pots A, B and C (we would only have to face one of Mexico, US and Costa Rica). Home-and away. 6 matches.

Third Round: THE HEX ( Six teams in the Group, top 3 qualify for WC, 4th goes on to November 2005 halfspot playoffs, 10 matches each).

Probably from February, 2005, to October 2005.

There you go. Hopefully FIFA redraws the map so that the 20-22 games are reduced (there is a possibility that one team may only have to play 18). First, there will be an announcement over the next couple of months as to the format approvals and tentative shcedules, and then the schedule will be set and drawn on December 5.

[Water]

I like the idea of the round robin of the OFC qualifier, CONCACAF 4th place, Asia 5th place, and CONMEBOL 5th place teams. I've always maintained that Oceania don't deserve an automatic spot if they can't earn it -- Uruguay and Iran deserving the spot with fair victories over Australia in recent World Cup Qualifiers. So, in the interest of fairness, the round-robin seems most fit.

EDIT: Uruguay, Iran, Australia, and Canada -- now that would make a good round-robin.

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by Water

I like the idea of the round robin of the OFC qualifier, CONCACAF 4th place, Asia 5th place, and CONMEBOL 5th place teams. I've always maintained that Oceania don't deserve an automatic spot if they can't earn it -- Uruguay and Iran deserving the spot with fair victories over Australia in recent World Cup Qualifiers. So, in the interest of fairness, the round-robin seems most fit.

EDIT: Uruguay, Iran, Australia, and Canada -- now that would make a good round-robin.

Reminds me of the old NFL "Black and Blue Division".

[Crazy_Yank]

I feel qualification should remain the same as it was the last time around. The hex is a very good thing. The final group needs to be round robin to ensure the best teams qualify.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by Crazy_Yank

I feel qualification should remain the same as it was the last time around. The hex is a very good thing. The final group needs to be round robin to ensure the best teams qualify.

The HEX is good, but I think that round should only involve 8 games (not 10). The results of the 2 games in the 2nd round between the top 2 finishers in each group should carry-over to the HEX round. What's the point in re-playing those 2 games??

[beachesl]

The best teams won't qualify if they can't get their best players (from Europe) for the qualifiers because of fixture congestion caused by 20-22 games. That's too many games for the international calendar to accomodate. There will be no meaningful practice camps possible, and it will result in more of a crap shoot than usual.

And the qualification is not the same as it was the last time around, as there is now an additional round that even the top seeds have to take, as well as the extra halfspot playoffs at the end for the 4th place team.

If there is a hex, then we need more stringent preliminary rounds involving the bottom 26 of the 35 countries to reduce the chaff before the more meaningful rounds. That is the primary problem.

That said, I think a final round of two Groups of Four (with the winners qualifying ad the second place teams

playing off for the 3rd and halfspots in October 2005, great practice for the November 2005 halfspot playoffs) would also ensure that the best teams qualify.

Mexico has complained about the proposed format the loudest, but that is strange because they stand to benefit the most, their best players mainly based in their domestic league. The USA will start to feel the pressure felt by Canada and some of the others now that their 3 best goalkeepers and increasing numbers of other players have ot go through the gauntlet set up by the Euro clubs.

With all the problems that will be faced over the next 28 months, there will be a growing wish all round that we had rationlaized like some other confederations have.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by beachesl

That said, I think a final round of two Groups of Four (with the winners qualifying ad the second place teams

playing off for the 3rd and halfspots in October 2005, great practice for the November 2005 halfspot playoffs) would also ensure that the best teams qualify.

I could just see Canada, Mexico and USA (or Costa Rica) all ending up in the same group under this format! Plus it still means upto 8 post second-round matches -> the same # as the HEX format with the 2-game carry-over from the 2nd round idea.

quote:

Mexico has complained about the proposed format the loudest, but that is strange because they stand to benefit the most, their best players mainly based in their domestic league.

Mexico's beef probably has more to do with the # of games than the format itself, since any format probably sees them qualify. The proposed format consists of more games than an entire Mexican League season (20 games vs. 19)!

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Crazy_Yank

I feel qualification should remain the same as it was the last time around. The hex is a very good thing. The final group needs to be round robin to ensure the best teams qualify.

The hex is still in place under the proposed system, and every effort is made to ensure that the 6 top finishers from the previous don't actually face anyone likely to beat them until the semi's. The problem with the old qualification system is that too many teams faced a home and away elimination while a favoured few did not. 20-22 games is excessive, but it is the only to keep the hex and allow for some equality in qualifying. A qualification system has to be equally fair to all participants.

With far more members than spots in the World Cup, group play is impractical. So, although I don't subscribe to the "hex ensures best teams make it" theory, it is impractical with the number of spots versus members that exists in CONCACAF to go to group play.

[Crazy_Yank]

Splitting the final round into 2 groups would be a bad idea. It would very foolish of concacaf to do it. We don't have very much depth within our confederation. One group for the final round is best because the cream of the crop rises to the top. It is a must that concacaf send its very best teams to the world cup if we expect to keep our 3.5 spots, or to pick up more.

[Crazy_Yank]

Amacpher,

It would be impossible for the US and Mexico to end up in the same group given the fact they are both #1 seeds.

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Mexico's beef probably has more to do with the # of games than the format itself, since any format probably sees them qualify. The proposed format consists of more games than an entire Mexican League season (20 games vs. 19)!

That's true. Their complaint was also having to play in so many countries with lousy pitches that can cause serious injury and the security problems in places like Trinidad and Tobago (where they complained about riotous conditions in the last WCQ).