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Gold Cup


bettermirror

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i know we are all about the germans right now, but i am actually more concerned with the gold cup as it's a true competition, and one that canada must perform well in ahead of next years world cup qualification season.

but, i am wondering about the format. having groups of 3 annoys me to no end. sure canada always gets the favourable coin-toss! besides that, only playing 2 first round games. it shows that fifa doesn't rate our zone at all.

also, why the hell is columbia ranked and canada not? yes, columbia is a "better" side. but, they are invitees. they should not be ranked, and should be placed in a very tough group. holger is upset. i am too.

there ain't gonna be any middle any more.

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It's not FIFA's fault, it's CONCANAF's, USSoccer's and FAMex's responsibility solely. FIFA has no direct authority here.

It's all about money. Latin American teams are a big draw in the US and Mexico, and the groups of 3 format are a way to ensure that the home teams and the popular teams get in at least one playoff/payoff.

In a perfect world, the Gold Cup would be held every 4 years (the year before the World Cup), would involve 16 CONCANAF (only)teams, and would be used as the World Cup Qualifiers to avoid fixture congestion in a crowded Confederation.

In a really perfect (I know that's redunduncy), CONCANAF and CONEMBOL would get together and have an expanded 16 team Copa America (switched between every continent) which would also be used as World Cup Qualifiers for 8 teams (with run-offs to ensure at least 3 teams qualify from every Confedration). Maybe this would stop SA whining, and make them put their money where their bocas are.

However, it will be exciting to watch Colombia, I like their style of play a lot better than the crunchy Argentine/Uruguayan/Chilean stuff.

Let's just look at the Gold Cup as a useful exhibition tournament, and concentrate on riding the knife's edge (by fielding just-good-enough sides for the early rounds, and going for broke in the latter rounds). It'll still be fun. The arrows of outrageous fortune.

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quote:Originally posted by beachesl

In a perfect world, the Gold Cup would be held every 4 years (the year before the World Cup), would involve 16 CONCANAF (only)teams, and would be used as the World Cup Qualifiers to avoid fixture congestion in a crowded Confederation.

I don't completely agree. CONCACAF-only teams, definitely. 16 of them, okay, though I think 12 is still fine. Every 4 years, yes! But there's no way I'd want the tournament used for World Cup qualifying!

I would like to see the Gold Cup and every other confederation championship held halfway between World Cups (as some confederations already do), the Confederations Cup held the year before World Cups, and the Club World Championship held the year after World Cups.

quote:In a really perfect (I know that's redunduncy), CONCANAF and CONEMBOL would get together and have an expanded 16 team Copa America (switched between every continent) which would also be used as World Cup Qualifiers for 8 teams (with run-offs to ensure at least 3 teams qualify from every Confedration).
Yikes, that's even worse! [:P]

quote:Maybe this would stop SA whining, and make them put their money where their bocas are.
If Australia had whined away one of our spots we would complain, too. None of this would have happened if it wasn't for Australia begging for and being awarded a spot they don't deserve. Australia irritates me, not South America.

quote:Let's just look at the Gold Cup as a useful exhibition tournament, and concentrate on riding the knife's edge (by fielding just-good-enough sides for the early rounds, and going for broke in the latter rounds).
The Gold Cup is an official tournament and I think it should be treated as such. I refuse to put all my eggs in the World Cup basket.
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Although, I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of 'Championship of the Americas'. To me, that set up would have the potential to reach the prestige of the EURO's - and if it were held in the same summer as the EURO's it would be heaven for football fans...

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I completely disagree with what you said about "no one else cares about this event". The event would be a success in Canada (remember how interest piqued when we won it?) and Canadians always get behind international events in this country. Heck, the francophone games here in Ottawa in 2001 attracted about 20 000 plus for the knockout stages of its soccer tournament (and those were under 23 teams!!).

Mexico would get behind such an event hosted in their country, as would many Carribean countries (notably Jamaica, Puerto Rico and Cuba). Just think about each individually and you can see it happening.

The Gold Cup needs to take itseld seriously before anyone else does. It needs to be every 4 years (every self-respecting tournament does that i.e. WC, Euro, Olymps., etc). It needs to rotate around the region every time. It needs to be for CONCACAF teams ONLY. This invitee bullsh*t is starting to really irk me. We are in effect taking a position from one of our member associations in the name of attracting fans from other countries. That is backwards thinking if you ask me. Play all the friendlies you want against South Korea and Brazil, but they have their own regional championships. If they were ever to win our regional championship, it would denigrate all the efforts of our teams in the eyes of the international community.

Alright, rant done.

Mimglow, Ottawa

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Regarding invited teams: I don't see a problem inviting the Copa America Champion and another South American team as long as it's reciprocal.

In other words, as long as the South Americans keep inviting two CONCACAF teams to their party, I have no problem inviting two of them to our party. It's inviting the South Koreans that really irks me, so I'm glad it's two South American sides this year.

I agree with those who've been saying that the Gold Cup should be rotated. The rotation should be:

1) North America (USA, Canada or Mexico)

2) Central America

3) North America

4) Caribbean

5) and so on...

If the Gold Cup can be hosted using a grand total of two venues, as the US did last year (Orange Bowl and Rose Bowl) then practically any country in CONCACAF should be able to host it (except for really] small Caribbean countries.)

Mike D

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COLOMBIA.

Sorry. Years of Juan Montoya fans hammering that point into my head have resulted in my own obsessiveness on this point.

It's not BC ;)

"Winning is most important. Everything is a consequence of that."

-Ayrton Senna (1960 - 1994)

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i hadn't checked in here for a while.

i believe:

a)must rotate countries. must. co-host. whatever. can't be in two massive american stadiums under pouring rain on brutal fields in front of 2000 fans. not 20000 like you would get in eastern canada, vancouver, mexico, and the carribbean.

b)must be every 4 years.

c)no countries from outside our concacaf region. yes, canada was invited to the copa america, along with mexico. but when was the last time the u.s. was invited to copa america? they've won, what, 2 of the last 3 gold cups?

d)if it MUST be in the u.s. (and i'm sure they have lawyers who say it MUST be) than play it in smaller soccer specific venues. columbus has a good soccer stadium and would attract fans. and boston gets great fans as well.

e)no automatic world cup qualification. that's what world cup qualifying is for. either have one, or the other.

f)no more groups of 3. deciding advancement on a coin-flip is ridiculous. if it comes down to a team from concacaf and an invitee for a coin flip, the coin flip should be foregone and the knock-out birth should be given to the concacaf side. period.

there ain't gonna be any middle any more.

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16 teams in the Gold Cup is another must. So what if some teams get trounced? They'll get better with experience.

There are 40 Nations in our Confederation, so narrowing it down to 16 is not a stretch.

_______________________

Mimglow, Ottawa

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There's easily 16 quality sides in the CONCACAF. Some of them might not provide the quality of match that South American (or Asian) teams might, but giving the seeded teams an easier first round opponent would help them get off to a good start in group play, group play would actually mean something with groups of 4 (no coin toss), and the minnows would benefit from having a chance to play with the bigger teams in a tournament that matters.

Overall that's better for the confederation than inviting 1 or 2 guest teams in the long run.

http://www.fifaconcacaf.com/strobe_z/Voyageurs.swf

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I'm more in favour of keeping the 12-team competition. I would, however, make some changes.

I would have 3 groups of 4 teams each. Helps take out the risk of having more damn coin tosses.

I would have the 3 northern teams in the competition with 2 more spots given to the Central American teams. 5 spots would go to the teams from the Carribean regions.

The 2 remaining spot would be invited teams from CONCACAF. The most improved teams from the confederation would be rewarded with the spots.

This would only work if the stronger teams do qualify in their first go at it.

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I believe the 16 team format would be best simply because it makes your playoff scenarios much easier. Top two in each group move on to the quarter-final stage.

I also like the idea of every four years. It creates a feeling of anticipation for fans and players. When it is played every year or every two years some of the gloss is taken off.

P.S. Jayway, you actually found some people who like Montoya? :D

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Holding the tournament every 4 years also means you can have a comprehensive qualification system without too much hassle from the European clubs.

Say the next tournament is in 2007, then you could have the qualification in the summer of 2005. Just to narrow it down to 16 teams, with WC qualifiers and host nation automatically qualifying, you have up to 5 teams already determined. Just 11 left to qualify.

Mimglow, Ottawa

_________________________

Where are the weapons of mass destruction?

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is there anyway to contact concacaf?

i mean seriously, sometimes you just have to have your voice heard. this confederation isn't an old boys club. the game is played by the people and for the people. let the people tell them what has to be improved.

there ain't gonna be any middle any more.

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You really want to contact CONCACAF? I've always considered it to be

an "old boys club", as shown with their treatment of Canada, in general.

Imagine the WWC bid withdrawn because CONCACAF wants a "unanimous"

appearance of the FC members. What the heck did that mean? I presume

that the US did not want to share anything with Canada, and therefore pressured the CSA to withdrawing the bid. It's all political and

very sleazy.

You'd be better off voicing with the media and the CSA.

quote:Originally posted by bettermirror

is there anyway to contact concacaf?

i mean seriously, sometimes you just have to have your voice heard. this confederation isn't an old boys club.

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So Brazil is bringing their under-23 team to the Gold Cup. This is what I mean about allowing foreign teams to compete in what is essentially "our" tournament. How will anyone take our tournament seriously when outsiders bring their "B" team.

Mimglow, Ottawa

_________________________

Where are the weapons of mass destruction?

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quote:Originally posted by Mimglow

So Brazil is bringing their under-23 team to the Gold Cup. This is what I mean about allowing foreign teams to compete in what is essentially "our" tournament. How will anyone take our tournament seriously when outsiders bring their "B" team.

I think CONCACAF and FIFA are taking the tournament seriously. If not for economic reasons (Brazil as a draw), the invited guests bring lots of competition to the tournament. Plus we get an invite to Copa America.

Maybe it's a fluke to some, but Canada's victory in 2000 made the tournament look do-able for many countries and made some countries

revamp their WC preparations (Honduras, USA, Mexico, T&T). They were

certainly prepared just before the hex in 2001. Europeans may not care

about the GC tourney, but it seems they don't care much about anything except for Euro. Since there are 3 and a half spots, we should take

the tournament seriously and care less about what others say.

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I've heard rumours on bigsoccer that regardless who wins the 2003 Gold Cup, Mexico & the US will be invited to the Copa.

Perhaps Comnebol just figures nobody else has a chance at winning the tournament. Its interesting how quickly Canada has been written off by many people within Concacaf (but not Canada) judging by some of the comments I've seen. We are not considered by many to be even close to being a threat to win.

Well a lot of things can happen, when you're walking down the street, and it never fails to amaze me, the people that I meet. They all say "See you later" and I just answer "How? How will you see me later, when you can't see me now?" - Kevin Ayers, The Confessions of Dr. Dream & Other Stories (1974)

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Also, it is worth noting that Bruce Arena has apparently gone on record as stating the Gold Cup is more important for the US than the Confederations Cup is, which I guess indicates some level of "seriousness" on their part.

Well a lot of things can happen, when you're walking down the street, and it never fails to amaze me, the people that I meet. They all say "See you later" and I just answer "How? How will you see me later, when you can't see me now?" - Kevin Ayers, The Confessions of Dr. Dream & Other Stories (1974)

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